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  #81  
Old April 29th, 2016, 01:36 PM
robertf
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Robert F
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despite what their sales people say, it will not solve your problems. Mine is running on the factory chip just fine
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  #82  
Old April 29th, 2016, 01:37 PM
jason1st
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Jason Crandall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
despite what their sales people say, it will not solve your problems. Mine is running on the factory chip just fine
Is yours not trying to re-learn it's old settings as this ad says the original ECU tries to do? That's what mine is doing.
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  #83  
Old April 29th, 2016, 01:57 PM
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Ray Gerber
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Originally Posted by robertf View Post
despite what their sales people say, it will not solve your problems. Mine is running on the factory chip just fine
This was my experience as well.
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  #84  
Old April 29th, 2016, 02:33 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
This was my experience as well.
You ordered this chip from RPI for your GEMS 4.6 and it didn't work?
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  #85  
Old April 29th, 2016, 02:36 PM
robertf
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Robert F
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
Is yours not trying to re-learn it's old settings as this ad says the original ECU tries to do? That's what mine is doing.
Im not sure I understand. The error correcton is always changing based on o2 sensor feedback even with a factory 4.0. I havent had a problem with this truck so I havent bothered to check fuel trim values.

since its a MAF efi setup it gives the amount of fuel based on the amount of air intake, not based on a precomputed lookup table catered to a specific engine size, so at cruise and idle the fueling is almost always going to be good enough.
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  #86  
Old April 29th, 2016, 02:36 PM
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Ray_G
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Ray Gerber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
You ordered this chip from RPI for your GEMS 4.6 and it didn't work?
The context of my remark tied back to the quoted text...I had a stock 4.0 GEMS ecu and a built 4.6 and none of RPI's advertising stuff was an issue, it ran fine with the standard ECU.

RPI makes it seem like it won't work w/o chipping, that simply isn't true.
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  #87  
Old April 29th, 2016, 02:48 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
Im not sure I understand. The error correcton is always changing based on o2 sensor feedback even with a factory 4.0. I havent had a problem with this truck so I havent bothered to check fuel trim values.

since its a MAF efi setup it gives the amount of fuel based on the amount of air intake, not based on a precomputed lookup table catered to a specific engine size, so at cruise and idle the fueling is almost always going to be good enough.
OK. I understand what you're saying.

We did the compression test. The new engine cylinder compression is a little high but not out of spec.

Here is a video on installing the RPI tornado chip which allows you to modify the O2 sensor feedback and get more fuel into the engine. Has nobody here used RPI before? I've seen V8 Defender in the U.S. that say they have an RPI chip in them.


------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 02:50 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
The context of my remark tied back to the quoted text...I had a stock 4.0 GEMS ecu and a built 4.6 and none of RPI's advertising stuff was an issue, it ran fine with the standard ECU.

RPI makes it seem like it won't work w/o chipping, that simply isn't true.
OK. Well MINE isn't working. The issues I'm having are exactly what RPI claims their chip can fix. Still wanting to hear if anyone here has ever used an RPI chip. I also have an email into them.
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  #88  
Old April 29th, 2016, 02:52 PM
robertf
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I was unaware of any compression test max spec. what were the numbers?

you need to have the engine running perfect before worrying about a chip
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  #89  
Old April 29th, 2016, 03:16 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
I was unaware of any compression test max spec. what were the numbers?

you need to have the engine running perfect before worrying about a chip
All 8 cylinders are the same give or take a point or 2 at 177
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  #90  
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
Yes. Mine is the original ECU from a Disco.

RPI builds this chip that seems would solve my problems. Anyone have experience with this?
Land Rover Defender 90 Range Rover P38 V8 4.0 4.6 Engine ECU Chipping Christmas | eBay

Wording from the AD:

Avoid going into default.
Essentially Gems/Sagem engine management is equipped with an OBD-2 (on board diagnostics) style engine management computer. Unlike previous models, the Sagem system has the ability to constantly monitor its performance, efficiency and economy, and make logical adjustments to its ignition and fuelling parameters. It also records previous faults it may have encountered. The main problem it has is that it is constantly trying to maintain the compromised settings (for a Range Rover) installed by the original manufacturer (Land Rover).

Get the right settings.
In the following few paragraphs you will learn how simple it is to not only remove the robust security (Rover's pre-installation to lock out any future upgrades), but also how to improve on your standard engine's efficiency. It's so easy that you can gain all you need without any compromises. That's Torque, Bhp and Economy!!

What are the gains from a chip install only?
From just installing the ECU chips you can easily expect at least 20-25% increase in torque throughout the entire rev range, bhp and efficiency too. The chip upgrade is also compatible with our piper camshaft upgrades, K&N sir filters, Carbon Fibre Super Flair Trumpets ad our full or partial Stainless Steel exhaust system without modification.

Essential for all 4.0 & 4.6 engine upgrades.
Even the slightest change such as an exhaust system or free flow filter will not register any favours with the ECU and it will continually fight against any extra fueling requirements to make the best of the upgrade. Indeed, it will always try to restore factory default settings, thus undermining anything you have done. With the removal of "robust security" once these chips have been installed and the revised fuel and ignition map they will simply adapt to any modifications, camshaft, intake or exhaust that you may do. The chips also have both 4.0 litre and 4.6 litre fuel maps stored on them so if you later upgrade to a 4.6 litre engine there is no need to send them back for a software re-write, simply plug in Test Book, Rovacom Lite or FaultMate and change from 4.0 to 4.6.

again, email Mark Adams and wait for his reply or call him via Skype. he's the guy you'd get this from. plus, sounds like you're still working mechanical issues that this will not solve.
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  #91  
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:24 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name View Post
sounds like you're still working mechanical issues that this will not solve.
What mechanical issues do you think I'm still working? I feel we've narrowed it down to this ECU issue. Nothing else is wrong.
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  #92  
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:25 PM
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fishEH
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Brett Fritzler
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I'd try a known good GEMS ECU for $50 before dropping $900 on a chip.

------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 03:27 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
What mechanical issues do you think I'm still working? I feel we've narrowed it down to this ECU issue. Nothing else is wrong.
Except that others with 4.6 GEMS aren't having these problems. So you either have a mechanic problem or an ECU problem, neither of which the chip will fix.
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  #93  
Old April 29th, 2016, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
I'd try a known good GEMS ECU for $50 before dropping $900 on a chip.

------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 03:27 PM ------



Except that others with 4.6 GEMS aren't having these problems. So you either have a mechanic problem or an ECU problem, neither of which the chip will fix.

ditto. check out ebay for a working GEMS ECU before you introduce a new variable into all of this. that chip is expensive and if you install it incorrectly (bending a leg or frying with static) you'll have yet another issue to deal with. I've got the chip on my truck but, didn't install it until after everything else was straight. it'll let you take full advantage of that 4.6. but, if you don't upgrade the injectors you're still not taking full advantage. https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/ for you to look into after you fix your other issues and before you introduce the new chip.

------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 04:51 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
The context of my remark tied back to the quoted text...I had a stock 4.0 GEMS ecu and a built 4.6 and none of RPI's advertising stuff was an issue, it ran fine with the standard ECU.

RPI makes it seem like it won't work w/o chipping, that simply isn't true.

right, it'll work just fine but, your not taking full advantage of that 4.6 with that 4.0 ECU.
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  #94  
Old April 29th, 2016, 05:27 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name View Post
ditto. check out ebay for a working GEMS ECU before you introduce a new variable into all of this. that chip is expensive and if you install it incorrectly (bending a leg or frying with static) you'll have yet another issue to deal with. I've got the chip on my truck but, didn't install it until after everything else was straight. it'll let you take full advantage of that 4.6. but, if you don't upgrade the injectors you're still not taking full advantage. https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/ for you to look into after you fix your other issues and before you introduce the new chip.

------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 04:51 PM ------




right, it'll work just fine but, your not taking full advantage of that 4.6 with that 4.0 ECU.
Mark Adams offers a full ECU with the chips already installed for $40 more. Since I don't have a spare ECU anyways I'm gonna go for it.

Thank you for the info on injectors. I'll get on those too.
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  #95  
Old April 29th, 2016, 06:02 PM
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fishEH
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Brett Fritzler
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This may be a silly question but would a RR GEMS 4.6 ECU work?
1998 Range Rover 4 6L SE ECU Engine Computer Unit Module ERR7397 A88V | eBay
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  #96  
Old April 29th, 2016, 06:18 PM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
This may be a silly question but would a RR GEMS 4.6 ECU work?
1998 Range Rover 4 6L SE ECU Engine Computer Unit Module ERR7397 A88V | eBay
That's a great question. But I don't know the answer.

------ Follow up post added April 29th, 2016 06:20 PM ------

I'm taking the advice many here gave and I'm going to run a wide band scanner on it to be absolutely sure the issue I'm have is "too lean" before I order new chips.
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  #97  
Old April 29th, 2016, 08:06 PM
jason1st
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I'm woking this weekend to make sure the engine has no other issues. Checking MAF and using a wide band scanner.
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  #98  
Old April 30th, 2016, 01:43 AM
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Ray Gerber
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right, it'll work just fine but, your not taking full advantage of that 4.6 with that 4.0 ECU.
That's a given, but without throwing it on the dyno to truly see the difference what I will say is that the real difference was rather tangible switching from 4.0 to a cam'd 4.6 even with the same ECU. You can, of course, squeak more power out of it with injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, ceramic coated headers, gutted cats (if any at all), exhaust-but to what end? By the end you have probably touched the upper limit of what the 1960's buick technology division can cope with, potentially drastically reduced reliability-and at what cost?

All for a truck whose speed likely isn't much better than my LR3's bone stock 4.4 (and isn't designed to go fast anyway).

Best to overbuild/undertune, but that's coming from a perspective of a guy who liked running 21psi of boost in other projects (that actually had stand alone engine management).

I'll be very interested in what the wideband says, and I still would take a 2nd look at the MAF.
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  #99  
Old April 30th, 2016, 08:33 AM
jason1st
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
That's a given, but without throwing it on the dyno to truly see the difference what I will say is that the real difference was rather tangible switching from 4.0 to a cam'd 4.6 even with the same ECU. You can, of course, squeak more power out of it with injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, ceramic coated headers, gutted cats (if any at all), exhaust-but to what end? By the end you have probably touched the upper limit of what the 1960's buick technology division can cope with, potentially drastically reduced reliability-and at what cost?

All for a truck whose speed likely isn't much better than my LR3's bone stock 4.4 (and isn't designed to go fast anyway).

Best to overbuild/undertune, but that's coming from a perspective of a guy who liked running 21psi of boost in other projects (that actually had stand alone engine management).

I'll be very interested in what the wideband says, and I still would take a 2nd look at the MAF.
I agree with you on tuning. I'm not trying to build the fastest Defender on the planet. I want reliability more than anything.I don't drive this thing over 40mph or so.

I'll post my wideband results and MAF soon.
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  #100  
Old April 30th, 2016, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
I agree with you on tuning. I'm not trying to build the fastest Defender on the planet. I want reliability more than anything.I don't drive this thing over 40mph or so.

I'll post my wideband results and MAF soon.
??? Seems like a lot of assing around for a truck that won't see over 40mph. I've never wished for a bigger engine/more HP while off roading in Low.
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