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  #41  
Old April 28th, 2016, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
There are a lot of threads on Defendersource that say otherwise. I haven't found a single post from someone who actually has a 4.6 that doesn't have issues. Even ECR has about a zillion posts here trying to work the bugs out.
Nevermind...
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  #42  
Old April 28th, 2016, 12:22 PM
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Is the shop that did the swap a LR specialty shop, a Brit specialty shop, an import specialist, or more of an all makes & models shop?
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  #43  
Old April 28th, 2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
Is the shop that did the swap a LR specialty shop, a Brit specialty shop, an import specialist, or more of an all makes & models shop?
The shop that did the work is a bunch of lying thieves who claimed to be a speciality shop. A year later I got my truck out in pieces. My story is the same we've all heard here before. I'm trying to pick up the pieces at this point.

I have the truck with a guy a trust who is not a LR pro but he's getting into it. We're making headway.

Thanks to those being helpful here.

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 02:06 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Then put the 3.5 with a carb back in it.

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 10:27 AM ------

People have been putting 4.6s in GEMS trucks since before I could drive. The fuel injection ECU doesn't know that its in a Defender, so that makes no difference. You could get a GEMS 4.6 from the factory in a P38 Range Rover.


Can Cannibal tell you what the compression ratio is in your motor?
You don't have a full time CEL?

I agree it shouldn't make a difference but I don't know why there's so much to it. Someone posted a thread here that started in 2006 with the same issues. That lead to a follow up thread. Nobody seemed to come to any conclusion.

I'm headed to the shop now. My guy told me he's made a lot progress.
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  #44  
Old April 28th, 2016, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
The shop that did the work is a bunch of lying thieves who claimed to be a speciality shop. A year later I got my truck out in pieces. My story is the same we've all heard here before. I'm trying to pick up the pieces at this point. I have the truck with a guy a trust who is not a LR pro but he's getting into it. We're making headway. Thanks to those being helpful here.
I so feel your pain on that.

When Pendy started digging into my blown up diesel, he found short cuts and hacked parts on my D1. As he said, he was surprised I made it from Canada.

I don't know what the guy in Canada was thinking. More yet, what the hell was I thinking.
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  #45  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:42 PM
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I'm amused that anyone would voluntarily stick a Gems unit in a defender. The KISS principle says 14cux is as far as you should go.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #46  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:44 PM
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I just got back from my new shop and we've made progress. All codes check out. Al O2 sensors are working and wired correctly. Fuel pressure to the engine at idle is a few lbs low. We think 4.0 injectors have been used on my 4.6 engine. If that's not the case we think the fuel pressure regulator used may be the wrong one. This would explain why it runs so well cold (rich) and then runs crappy when I hit the gas. It's not getting enough fuel under load. We're testing the fuel pressure while driving.

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 03:46 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
I'm amused that anyone would voluntarily stick a Gems unit in a defender. The KISS principle says 14cux is as far as you should go.
It wasn't up to me. I was promised the moon and handed dog shit. I'm trying to fix it. Thanks for your helpful post though.
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  #47  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:50 PM
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Actually that was pretty helpful, b/c the point remains you might be trying to shine a turd and no matter how hard you shine it-it may still be a turd. Serious consideration of whether you will ever get it 'right' enough to trust beyond the city limits may be in order, or do you go to something more solid and known that you install-i.e. 14cux.

Given that you gravitate back and forth between saying nobody has every done this right, and then being irritated when people point out that there are some embedded issues, we could reasonably say its all of us that are messed up-or perhaps there is just one constant.
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  #48  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:56 PM
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Jason, GEMS is a perfectly fine platform.
Don't let the haters get to you.


.
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  #49  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
Actually that was pretty helpful, b/c the point remains you might be trying to shine a turd and no matter how hard you shine it-it may still be a turd. Serious consideration of whether you will ever get it 'right' enough to trust beyond the city limits may be in order, or do you go to something more solid and known that you install-i.e. 14cux.

Given that you gravitate back and forth between saying nobody has every done this right, and then being irritated when people point out that there are some embedded issues, we could reasonably say its all of us that are messed up-or perhaps there is just one constant.
There are guys posting in this thread that they have done it right and it's a common swap. So I'm pushing forward to try and make it work. So which is it in your professional opinion? Are the guys posting here that a GEMS 4.6 will work wrong?

As for what I've written..... I don't have a flipping clue. I'm just referring to what I've read here. I'm not speaking from personal experience. Im just trying to figure this all out.
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  #50  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:58 PM
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Does your truck have the fuel pump assembly from a GEMS vehicle? If not you may be on to something there with the low fuel pressure theory
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  #51  
Old April 28th, 2016, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Jason, GEMS is a perfectly fine platform.
Don't let the haters get to you.


.
Thank you sir. Not sure why I got a few negative nellys in here??

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 03:59 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ten View Post
Does your truck have the fuel pump assembly from a GEMS vehicle? If not you may be on to something there with the low fuel pressure theory
I can't say it's from a GEMS vehicle but I can say the pump is putting out plenty of fuel. So we've narrowed down to the injectors and fuel pressure regulator.
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  #52  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
There are guys posting in this thread that they have done it right and it's a common swap. So I'm pushing forward to try and make it work. So which is it in your professional opinion? Are the guys posting here that a GEMS 4.6 will work wrong?

As for what I've written..... I don't have a flipping clue. I'm just referring to what I've read here. I'm not speaking from personal experience. Im just trying to figure this all out.
They aren't wrong, many of us (myself included) have had a GEMS 4.6-in my case in a D1 but the reality is there isn't a dime's bit of difference under the sheetmetal. Mine worked fine, was not chipped, ran like a scalded cat until the top end let go. But my truck was GEMS from the factory. Retrofitting it into an 83 isn't rocket science but it does increase variables, as does the R380 to a degree.

People here are always talking about LS swaps too, how many of those have actually happened?

It is good that the troubleshooting is reducing variables and maybe it is the fuel pump-I doubt its the injectors, but that's easy enough to fix with some higher flow units that will make the skinny pedal more fun anyway even if it lets you watch the gas gauge move down at times.
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  #53  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:04 PM
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You need about 30psi fuel pressure for a gems
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  #54  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:06 PM
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Not being a negative nelly, it's just that a simple platform like a Defender cries out for as simple a powertrain as possible.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #55  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
I just got back from my new shop and we've made progress. All codes check out. Al O2 sensors are working and wired correctly. Fuel pressure to the engine at idle is a few lbs low. We think 4.0 injectors have been used on my 4.6 engine. If that's not the case we think the fuel pressure regulator used may be the wrong one. This would explain why it runs so well cold (rich) and then runs crappy when I hit the gas. It's not getting enough fuel under load. We're testing the fuel pressure while driving.
your low fuel pressure reading while the engine is running means nothing. engine vacuum changes the pressure.
fuel injectors and pressure regulator are the same for a gems 4.6 and 4.0

jumper the fuel pump, hook a vacuum pump with gauge up to the regulator. if it moves linear with change in pressure its fine. maybe the pump isnt flowing enough at full load, but I doubt it. was a wideband o2 used to come to this conclusion, or is it a stab in the dark?
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  #56  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:39 PM
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Just to be clear, you could get a GEMS 4.6 from the factory in a P38. It isn't matter what vehicle it is in. The engine management doesn't know that its not a Discovery.


If you think that the motor has too high of compression causing detonation, couldn't you get higher octane race fuel to test that theory? If that is the case swap in some standard 4.6 pistons and you should be fine. My theory is something is not wired correctly, I just don't know what.
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  #57  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ten View Post
You need about 30psi fuel pressure for a gems
Thank you.

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 04:41 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
your low fuel pressure reading while the engine is running means nothing. engine vacuum changes the pressure.
fuel injectors and pressure regulator are the same for a gems 4.6 and 4.0

jumper the fuel pump, hook a vacuum pump with gauge up to the regulator. if it moves linear with change in pressure its fine. maybe the pump isnt flowing enough at full load, but I doubt it. was a wideband o2 used to come to this conclusion, or is it a stab in the dark?
Got it. Thank you.
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  #58  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
Thank you.


I think that the actual spec is a bit higher at 36psi.
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  #59  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Just to be clear, you could get a GEMS 4.6 from the factory in a P38. It isn't matter what vehicle it is in. The engine management doesn't know that its not a Discovery.


If you think that the motor has too high of compression causing detonation, couldn't you get higher octane race fuel to test that theory? If that is the case swap in some standard 4.6 pistons and you should be fine. My theory is something is not wired correctly, I just don't know what.
Yes, we've considered the race fuel thing. I'm crossing off all other options before I start swapping pistons.

------ Follow up post added April 28th, 2016 04:43 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Not being a negative nelly, it's just that a simple platform like a Defender cries out for as simple a powertrain as possible.
Did you the part in this thread where I said all this stuff isn already installed in my truck? I'm not in the planning phase here. It's already installed. Jesus!
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  #60  
Old April 28th, 2016, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
Yes, we've considered the race fuel thing. I'm crossing off all other options before I start swapping pistons.


Pistons would definitely be a last resort. I'm just saying if that is your problem, you can fix it and still have a 4.6.
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