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  #121  
Old February 12th, 2014, 03:36 PM
spanto
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peter
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I love the idea of running two tanks. Very interested to see what you come up with.
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  #122  
Old February 13th, 2014, 11:27 AM
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Don Bunnell
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I really can't wait to get this OM617 up and running after hearing about a smooth driver (for a diesel at least).


I have been researching the valve adjustment and front and rear main seals. Came across Diesel Giant and like his tutorials:


http://dieselgiant.com/mercedes_dies...nance_tips.htm


I just ordered a thermostat and gasket kit from him and will probably get more pieces from him as I do more jobs on the motor. I am hoping to get the engine cleaned this week and as of right now I am looking to install in the frame and do the procedures. The reason is 2 fold as when I mounted the engine to the stand I used 2 bolts that look to attach to the pan. 2nd I think I will feel more secure doing engine work with it on the frame. (and 3rd - I just want to see it in there!).


Not sure if my motor has them or not but he has an interesting tutorial on upgrading loop glow plugs to pencil style.
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  #123  
Old February 17th, 2014, 07:31 PM
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Axel
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jack
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Anyone in the Southeast available to install an OM617 in to a 110?
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  #124  
Old February 17th, 2014, 09:17 PM
spanto
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peter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
Anyone in the Southeast available to install an OM617 in to a 110?
For that matter the Northeast?
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  #125  
Old February 17th, 2014, 09:44 PM
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Robert Davis
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Sorry for late responses... really busy the past few days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I really can't wait to get this OM617 up and running after hearing about a smooth driver (for a diesel at least).

I have been researching the valve adjustment and front and rear main seals. Came across Diesel Giant and like his tutorials:
http://dieselgiant.com/mercedes_dies...nance_tips.htm


I just ordered a thermostat and gasket kit...


Not sure if my motor has them or not but he has an interesting tutorial on upgrading loop glow plugs to pencil style.
You probably don't have the loop style glow plugs.
Just put that link you found in my favorites for reference.

I use these guys: https://mercedessource.com/
They have some really good teaching clips on you tube.
You'll need the engine on the stand upside down to put the custom pan on.
Don't forget to leave the long bolts out of the two oil pan ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
Anyone in the Southeast available to install an OM617 in to a 110?
Local to me in Virginia Beach is Abacus Racing.
They could do the install.
Another option: you might find a small independent Mercedes repair shop that will take on the install in your immediate area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Are you no longer selling this truck to the university ?
Yes am selling it...
Head of the Field studies program came by today and gave me a list of final tasks to finish by May 1st.
Slammed with multiple concurrent jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
I love the idea of running two tanks. Very interested to see what you come up with.
Should have the tank mounting kits by the end of the month.
Will post some pictures when the pair are ready to install in our 1983 Swiss X-Feuerwehr (Fire Brigade) 110 5 door.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #126  
Old February 18th, 2014, 09:01 AM
spanto
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peter
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I know these engines are pretty common but anyone have a particular source on where to get a solid low mileage one?
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  #127  
Old February 18th, 2014, 09:47 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
I know these engines are pretty common but anyone have a particular source on where to get a solid low mileage one?
There is no single source for used engines that I know about, but both pick-n-pull and Crazy Ray's (MD) seem to have a good cache from time to time.

Several of the guys who bought kits found some complete cars cheap on CraigsList or eBay that they drove and verified the engine, then scrapped the old hulk to help offset the purchase price. A nice running badly rusted 82 - 85 Mercedes 300D will sell reasonably for well under $1K. They are even cheaper with a bad transmission.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #128  
Old February 27th, 2014, 07:08 PM
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Don Bunnell
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I posted this pics in my build thread but figured I would put them here as well if people are looking for some visual references.

Couple notes:
- I stripped 2 of the star bolts for the flywheel. They are 12mm heads. I bought a cheap 3/8" spanner, heated it up and hammered it on one of them. Once it cooled I got it off. The last one I ended up cutting part of the head off and used a vice grip which worked.
- from the pelican forums it seems the upper pan needs to be assembled with an anaerobic sealant. Found a Permatex version at Advanced Auto.
- getting the engine on the stand is a little tricky but finally got it. I can take a close up if anyone wants to see. I had to monkey rig part of it and use a clamp.
- I used a gun metal color engine paint to try and make things look good.
- i really can't wait to get some of RD's kit on this thing! I test fit the plate and tranny adapter and it goes together mint!

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  #129  
Old February 27th, 2014, 07:17 PM
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Cool looking engines. I enjoyed driving Roberts and that was before he put a 1.4 t case in and upped the fueling. Some guys in Finland have gotten crazy hp and torque numbers out of these engines.
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  #130  
Old February 27th, 2014, 07:27 PM
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Very nice.

What's up with that crazy Fat Albert bulging hose in the second photo?
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  #131  
Old February 27th, 2014, 07:56 PM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
Very nice. What's up with that crazy Fat Albert bulging hose in the second photo?
That is part of the coolant line. I have to check more into it as it doesn't seem quite right. A nice thing about these engines is that there seems to be an ample supply of parts. I got a whole mess of seals, belts and a water pump, for $100 shipped. Not GM cheap but I didn't think it was too bad.
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  #132  
Old February 27th, 2014, 09:23 PM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Cool looking engines. I enjoyed driving Roberts and that was before he put a 1.4 t case in and upped the fueling. Some guys in Finland have gotten crazy hp and torque numbers out of these engines.
I think Robert is getting one of those IPs from the Fin. I will most likely go that route once things are in and running for a little while.
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  #133  
Old February 27th, 2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I think Robert is getting one of those IPs from the Fin. I will most likely go that route once things are in and running for a little while.
Yeah he sends me links and video clips.
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  #134  
Old February 28th, 2014, 04:20 AM
jakeslouw
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Jakes Louw
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OM617 versus OM605

Hi from South Africa

We unfortunately only got the OM617 in naturally aspirated (NA) format (300D).
Would you be able to add a turbo, or was the standard engine not up to it? (oil sprayers, crank, con-rods, pistons, etc), not to mention sourcing an IP with boost compensation.

What seems to be coming available is the OM605 inline 5 TDi (C250 TD) and even the OM602 (Sprinter van).

These are expensive over here as the engines are correctly considered to be pretty robust.

Would the OM605 or 602 have a similar bell-housing bolt pattern, or am I barking up the proverbial wrong tree?
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  #135  
Old February 28th, 2014, 06:35 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeslouw View Post
Hi from South Africa

We unfortunately only got the OM617 in naturally aspirated (NA) format (300D)...
Would you be able to add a turbo, or was the standard engine not up to it? (oil sprayers, crank, con-rods, pistons, etc), not to mention sourcing an IP with boost compensation.

What seems to be coming available is the OM605 inline 5 TDi (C250 TD) and even the OM602 (Sprinter van).

These are expensive over here as the engines are correctly considered to be pretty robust.

Would the OM605 or 602 have a similar bell-housing bolt pattern, or am I barking up the proverbial wrong tree?
Jakes:
I think the configuration of the OM602 & 605 is completely different from the OM617.
Am no expert and am picking up an OM602 this weekend so will be able to compare and provide specifics. Looking at pictures, it looks like the oil filter housings are on opposite sides of the block and have a different bolt pattern, which would require a different belhousing adapter. The other thing that needs to be overcome (for me) is the electronics. The OM605 is ECU "land" and the OM602 is partially electronic, but have talked to people via email who are using fully mechanical setups of both.

We have an OM617 N/A and the only real difference with it's turbo twin are the pistons and oil squirters underneath the pistons. One of many things on my list is to have a OM617 N/A block drilled for the oil squirters and rebuild it using the turbo pistons. This is not cheap, but would be an experiment worth doing. Then we would all know if the N/A could be converted to a turbo version. I think it will work fine. Also from what I can tell the N/A and turbo IPs could be interchangeable due to the ALDA.

Here in USA, the stock OM617 IPs have an ALDA (altitude compensator) that meters the fuel through the IP plungers which are precisely machined for what I conceptually believe is fuel squirt duration (again am no expert) controlling how long the fuel squirts when the injector pops at a specified pressure. The plungers are one of the modifications the Fins and Swedes use to obtain more power from Mercedes diesels. They modify the IP with larger plungers that provide more fuel and add the extra boost to burn the extra fuel to get loads of power. This "science" requires a certain amount of precision that I currently don't have. The ALDA on the stock OM617 IP meters fuel that eliminates almost all diesel smoke, but renders the performance on the low side with 185 lbft of torque. This makes the stock engines slower off the line. People claim when the ALDA is eliminated on the stock IP the torque comes way up with exhaust smoke that about matches the Rover TDI engines. An OM617 with the ALDA eliminated is much quicker off the line. I am not sure the exact increase and have heard claims of up to 200 and even 220 lbft of torque which is not far fetched for an inline 5, but a dyno would show accurate results. Since HP is a function of torque at given RPM, the HP will jump as well. So this covers what I know about the stock IP.

As soon as a modified M-series IP is available for the OM617 from the guy I am communicating with in Sweden with 7mm or 7.5mm plungers, will order one and swap it out, then use a different turbo to experiment with. This is suppose to easily change to 220 lbft of torque and 165 HP (on the low side of the estimate) with the stock turbo and a waste gate bleed off. Again this is all just unproven theory in my mind. A dyno is needed to substantiate some of this performance talk all over the web including youtube.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #136  
Old February 28th, 2014, 08:29 AM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post


I use that on axles (stub to housing, drive flange to hub) but id use the right stuff on the pan.

-Jeff
The Mercedes oil pan setup seems a lot different than the Rover (or at least the V8 I did a couple of years ago). I will get some close up pics to explain but here are a couple things I noticed:

- The OM617 has an upper and lower oil pan stock. RD's kit is one single piece that is larger/more oil capacity.
- The stock upper pans and RD's Conversion pan are aluminum where the V8 pan was steel.
- The OM617 uses about 30 (maybe more) small M6 allen head bolts that are around an 1.5" apart. It took forever to get all of these out where as the Rover didn't seem nearly as many. I will measure and count when I get back to the garage.

From the PeachPart boards it seems a certain sealant is needed. Just looking at the 2 surfaces it doesn't look like The Right Stuff would be the correct sealant.

------ Follow up post added February 28th, 2014 09:30 AM ------

I figured I would post this link for my own help for the front main seal and visual reference of the front of the OM617: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...placement.html

And: http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617CrankshaftSeal
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  #137  
Old February 28th, 2014, 08:55 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
The Mercedes oil pan setup seems a lot different than the Rover...
The Mercedes factory manuals call for an anaerobic sealer for the oil pan.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #138  
Old February 28th, 2014, 09:16 AM
ezzzzzzz
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Mark Garrenton
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I'm totally confused by post 129. That engine doesn't look just right. It's suppose to be painted with old hammerite and plenty of drips and runs! Isn't that right, Robert?
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  #139  
Old February 28th, 2014, 09:24 AM
scrubs
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FWIW..A master Mercedes mechanic told me on the upper pan all he uses is the grey permitex, after removing all gasket material down to bare metal
said the orignal stuff was over priced and too difficult to find
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  #140  
Old February 28th, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzzzzzz View Post
I'm totally confused by post 129. That engine doesn't look just right. It's suppose to be painted with old hammerite and plenty of drips and runs! Isn't that right, Robert?
Subtract 23 years to my first Land Rover Engine Conversion and you are correct.
Now the drips are harder to see with spray paint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubs View Post
FWIW..A master Mercedes mechanic told me on the upper pan all he uses is the grey permitex, after removing all gasket material down to bare metal said the orignal stuff was over priced and too difficult to find
There are many different sealants available nowadays since the 80s when the factory OM617 manuals were written that will probably work just fine... Thanks for sharing.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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