LRUK pig to a savage twisted beast - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 30th, 2015, 10:17 AM
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shayne young
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LRUK pig to a savage twisted beast

LRUK pig into a twisted beast..

We were excited to see a shipment of LRUK (now Arkonic ) trucks arrive at our shop for Lee Savage of Savage defender. We had been waiting for these to arrive for quite some time and were anxious to see of they lived up to the hype. Initial looks were good, nice solid frames and overall in good shape, this particular load had a black 4 cyl gas engine vehicle, a bronze 4 cyl normally aspirated Diesel engine and a white defender 90 2.5 TD... This build thread is about this last vehicle..
We began by inspecting the truck over and under and it seemed to be a nice solid example, lots of new parts installed, exmoor diamond xs seats and the exmoor lock and fold rear seats installed as well, carpeting throughout as well as supposedly fully sound insulated. This was about to become our first real dealings with Land Rovers UK , and boyyyyy, was it about to get interesting..
The trucks had a lot of road grime from being on a transporter so the first job was to get them washed up.... Now you would think that having come from a country that is known to be quite wet, that they would have been tested for water leaks....yeah right.. First of all, sticking carpet down to the floors with cheap shitty spray adhesive might wanna be something that you rethink....a day after washing the trucks and letting them in the sunshine the inside smelled like a wet dog and the windows were steaming up on the insides...headliners were starting to sag and coming unglued...think mild steaming releases the cheap shite adhesives..further investigations showed that it rained just as much inside as it did outside, and from numerous points..behind the dashes, around the doors, through the roof to screen joints as well as the roof to body joints, in the pedal boxes etc etc..
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  #2  
Old April 30th, 2015, 10:27 AM
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shayne young
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Obligatory rudimentary pics..
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  #3  
Old April 30th, 2015, 10:34 AM
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Waiting for more.....
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06 L322 Range Rover "The Black Pearl"
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  #4  
Old April 30th, 2015, 10:35 AM
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shayne young
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Ohhhh, trust me..there is ALOT more to come..this has been a very interesting journey..... I'll be posting enough on this to keep this right in the limelight..lol..but think...high comp cammed 4.6 engine..magnaflow, r380 conversion, lowered suspension, custom stabilizer bar setup, twisted performance brakes front and rear, steel braided lines, Bluetooth stereo, under seat lighting, twisted performance wheels, terra grappler tyres, tornado chip, twin thermo fans, ferrari red powder coated upper covers, stainless finisher plates, led headlights and tail lights, suede headliner power windows, custom VDO gauges, GPS speedometer... And the list goes on...this is going to be a lonnnng write up..oh, and a/c also..
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  #5  
Old May 15th, 2015, 10:18 AM
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shayne young
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Well the events on this build have turned a little sour, I have been busy filing charges of grand larceny and theft of services against savage defender as they took the vehicle from my shop under the false pretence of road testing it and having our trim shop cover the hacked up rear mud UK door trim panel and have not returned the vehicle and not paid any portion of the $32,000 bill. I will openly admit we were combatting some issues with the vehicle running warm with a/c on after sitting in south Florida traffic on 90 degree days for 20 mins...turn the a/c off and no problem.. we knew this high compression 4.6 cammed engine was going to be a problem to keep cool but I was in the midst of getting the best compromise.. No overheating after absolutely flogging it down the highway.(this truck is a blast to drive). Was running a 16 inch thermo fan with variable temp fan control. Had an aluminum 4 core rad in it and switched to a high efficiency 3 core copper radiator and it was better but switched to mechanical viscous fan but because the rad was putting out so much warm air it was making the fan clutch stay locked up and robbing lots of power constantly so we switched to twin 12 inch fans for an added 250 combined CFM of air flow..I think the aftermarket condensor and fan that had been installed was restricting air flow ALOT.. It was supposedly running warm when Lee savage picked it up and he sent a video to the customer of it making a loud tapping knocking noise from the engine but made no effort to contact or advise me of such noises..yet he continued to drive it I think it was just a lifter making noise because he showed the temp guage at 230 while continuing to drive it so god only knows what happened after that.. Thankfully they sent me the video of it still being driven after being told specifically not to...shows willful negligence causing irrepairable costly damage. .Not going to say too much more about these events as it is in the hands of my pit bull attorney..LOL..but suffice to say the engine was a very small portion of a very large bill. I know, it's almost my own stupid fault for letting the slimy Pom take it, but I was trying to do the right thing for the customer who has since moved to UTAh. I've never really trusted Lee savage but I trusted the customer.. Shame on me.. Anyway, I will update the build thread once I have finished getting paperwork completed with my attorneys...in the next day or so..
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  #6  
Old May 15th, 2015, 10:48 AM
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between this thread, Dr. Aaron, the Mark Daniels/MRM thread and others, D-90 has become more entertaining that any realty TV show could dream of.


"Real Housewives of DefenderSource"


go get 'em Shayne!


The other thing I'll say is that in the almost 8-years now that I've been a "Defender Guy" and been involved in the LR forums, I am constantly surprised by the amount of unapologetic ass-fucking (or attempts thereof) between grown adults and business people involved in the Land Rover community. Not just pikers in the UK, but here stateside.
Yeah, it's the same over on Pelican, E9Coupe.com and others, but I'm just more surprised to see the proliferation of it here.
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  #7  
Old May 15th, 2015, 10:58 AM
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shayne young
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Agreed, I'm the kinda guy that keeps things to myself until done wrong by...certain peoples skeletons are gonna come out of the closet real soon..and it ain't gonna be pretty, especially for someone trying to do something with twisted performance and selling defenders in the USA.. Not building a good reputation so far.... The USA is a big place..but as we all know, the defender community isn't.... But I enjoy getting my money's worth, one way or the other..doesn't matter to me which..
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  #8  
Old May 15th, 2015, 01:14 PM
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Shayne,
You stated you switched from a 4 core aluminum to a 3 core copper?!
I was under the impression aluminum was better at keeping things cool.
Have I been wr...wr...wrrrrr...oh hell, have I been mistaken all these years?
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  #9  
Old May 15th, 2015, 01:39 PM
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I was under the impression/illusion that copper had better thermal conductivity coupled with thermal dissipation through the copper vs plastic header tanks also... So one of us is obviously wr...wro.... Mistaken...my odds are on that YOU are..lol...

------ Follow up post added May 15th, 2015 01:41 PM ------

And they say that thermal cooling get incrementally far less by the time it gets to the 4th core also..to the point of it being basically useless...
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  #10  
Old May 15th, 2015, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Ohhhh, trust me..there is ALOT more to come..this has been a very interesting journey..... I'll be posting enough on this to keep this right in the limelight..lol..but think...high comp cammed 4.6 engine..magnaflow, r380 conversion, lowered suspension, custom stabilizer bar setup, twisted performance brakes front and rear, steel braided lines, Bluetooth stereo, under seat lighting, twisted performance wheels, terra grappler tyres, tornado chip, twin thermo fans, ferrari red powder coated upper covers, stainless finisher plates, led headlights and tail lights, suede headliner power windows, custom VDO gauges, GPS speedometer... And the list goes on...this is going to be a lonnnng write up..oh, and a/c also..
Assuming this is the SOW for the $32k. Lee Savage (via the ultimate customer) didn't reimburse for at least the parts prior to install? That is a lot to bankroll up front even if carrying for a few weeks.
I hope you get compensated.
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  #11  
Old May 15th, 2015, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
I was under the impression/illusion that copper had better thermal conductivity coupled with thermal dissipation through the copper vs plastic header tanks also... So one of us is obviously wr...wro.... Mistaken...my odds are on that YOU are..lol... ------ Follow up post added May 15th, 2015 01:41 PM ------ And they say that thermal cooling get incrementally far less by the time it gets to the 4th core also..to the point of it being basically useless...
I never really did that deep level of research on aluminum vs copper.
But it is perplexing why so many people spring for aluminum.
If I had known that, I wouldn't have put an Allard inter cooler and radiator on my Tdi.
Aluminum seems easier to touch sooner than cooper after driving.
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  #12  
Old May 15th, 2015, 02:53 PM
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shayne young
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Savage defender sold the vehicle to the customer with a 2.5TD motor in it, even though he knew it was shite...and had numerous paint deficiencies.. Customer has us/me install bluetooth stereo and some other items and picks it up late one evening to drive across the alley to his home in tamp.. Gets about 30 miles away and the engine lets loose...looks like the turbo oil feed line fractured and it blew a head gasket or something similar..I had recommended to Lee savage that he NOT sell the vehicle with that engine in it.. So the customer decides he really likes the truck and makes a deal with Lee savage to have an engine conversion done to a 4.6, I give Lee an ESTIMATE of 12-14k because he asked me to keep the cost down low so he doesn't have to give the customer back the money because he didn't have it anymore..... So I tell LEE SAVAGE that I will not start the conversion until I receive a $5000 deposit. Once I received the deposit (which now appears to be a bit of time after Lee received the deposit) I ordered in all the stuff I immediately needed and got on with it...but at the same time he had "sold" another 110 and wanted the same thing done to it.. Now to be honest I enjoy doing (used to) projects like this so I agreed to the same price, I'm asked to start on the 110 First and pull it completely apart for painting while I do the engine work.. I begin work on installing a good used 4.6 engine (after doing a mild freshen up) and using a gems engine management system but I believe the cam was sending fuel trims all over the place due to the uneven idle and overfueling causing all sorts of idle fluctuations etc...so I went back to a 14cux setup so I had better control over the timing etc..
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Old May 15th, 2015, 03:05 PM
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shayne young
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During the build the customer added a bunch of stuff and upgrades, like tornado chip, magnaflow exhaust, electric windows, and new custom gauges etc etc etc.. So the build got higher and higher and higher.. After getting the engine running the thing was a rocket ship and highlighted the piss poor braking of a stock defender with oversized wheels that originally has the braking needs required to slow a snail..and handling that was likened to a soggy waffle.. It was actually quite dangerous now... So the next thing I knew was they had ordered a complete braking system from twisted performance and wanted it installed... In typical mechanic idiot savant fashion Lee failed to realize that the system they had ordered would not fit on the differentials that were in the truck, non ventilated front brakes and drum rear... So I had to supply front and rear differentials and modify these to suit the vehicle so that the twisted brakes could be installed.. Once that was done I gave them the option of doing the stabilizer bar system installation similar to a discovery, this should handle the lack of handling issue... Problem is that an ROW truck does not have the mounting brackets on the frame... So I had to fabricate all the brackets and weld them into the correct positions so that it could be done... And BOY...did it make a world of difference...all this was done after the vehicle had to be lowered in the front to give it a racing style stance.. You can actually dive into a corner hard on the brakes and throw it sideways... I actually had the rear end step out on me at one time..
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Old May 15th, 2015, 03:17 PM
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So as you can see the build just kept getting bigger and bigger and the customer was doing things right, it was kinda nice to be working with a customer who knew what he wanted and was doing some great upgrades out of the ordinary...he is a part time racer and as such didn't want the slug that is a defender... I never thought that I would be screwed by him...LEE..yes but the customer.. No... Since the customer was taking the vehicle to Utah he wanted to lessen the problems that he might have out there.. I know there is more to the story than I am being told and as well the customer has been told, customer was complaining that it had been 8 months since he gave the go ahead, but that's not when I received the deposit and began work..but I'm sure all that will come out in the hearings... Thankfully I don't trust anyone enough that I have all the email and text history between all parties...I'm sure it's gonna get ugly..
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Old May 15th, 2015, 03:19 PM
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LOL - now we know where those lowers springs ended up. Fun stuff. Thanks for sharing the insight to the build.
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  #16  
Old May 15th, 2015, 03:23 PM
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Luis, that would tell me right there that aluminum doesn't have the same thermal conductivity (or is it convection..??.) properties, in order for it to be cooler to the touch it must not be conducting the heat dissipation as well..unless of course it has cooled the cooling system down that much in its entirety.... Another benefit of copper is that it is repairable, you can pull the end tanks off and clean out the core tubes also..

------ Follow up post added May 15th, 2015 03:27 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
LOL - now we know where those lowers springs ended up. Fun stuff. Thanks for sharing the insight to the build.
That would be a feat of magic... I lowered it 2 months ago... And I haven't received the ones I just acquired yet... I actually ended up using the front springs from a p38 ARNOTT suspension conversion kit... Had to swap 4 sets before I found the right sag to suit the stance... All this takes time but I chalked it up to doing something that a lot of people haven't done yet... I always enjoy thinking outside the box and not doing the whole sheep thing, that's what HAD made this project fun..
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Old May 19th, 2015, 01:01 PM
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So after converting the engine back to 14cux system and ordering in a new performance cam with the boss for the dizzy drive and wiring in the new fuel pump etc she was up and running.. Initial driving was great, engine sounded crisp and clean, pulled nicely during the break in period, engine temps were great.. No overheating and all was looking good..after approx 100 miles or so I noticed it taking a little longer for the oil light to extinguish after starting and I could hear a very faint lower end noise..knowing that the truck was heading to Utah I didn't want to have a problem once there, so I pull the oil pan and inspect the bearing shells.. There were a couple that had an unusual wear pattern on them.. A decision was made to take the other engine that was being built for the other 110 and slap it into the 90.. This engine was a little different in that I had taken a 4.0 block, installed a 4.6 crank and rods but used the 4.0 pistons.. This gave us a high compression 4.6... Basically a truly stroked 4.0. This engine definitely had a different exhaust note to it and required a different ignition timing setting to reduce pinging on the mallory distributor.. As a side note I also ran I to a problem with the mallory unit overfueling the system, with the ignition on but engine not running you could watch the ignition coil sparking away..this was causing a false ignition signal to the ecu over injecting and dumping way too much fuel in due to excessive tachymetric pulses.. That was a fun one to figure out... Installed a new module and that was remedied but it had a definitely dead spot after decel and then accelerations , put the original Lucas distributor in and problems gone...bit of a shame really as I was looking forward to installing the mallory advance weight system that is best suited to the rover v8..
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  #18  
Old July 14th, 2015, 04:43 PM
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Enough is Enough

Enough is enough.

I was trying to do the right thing and keep away from publicly airing dirty laundry, but this has gone too far.

I am a law abiding citizen and the same can be said for my customer in this D90 debacle.
It is true that 2 years ago when I started my Defender business I knew nothing about mechanics. I just had a love for the vehicle and wanted to have one here in the US.
I decided to buy a further 5 from a UK company and start a business, but unfortunately the Defenders that arrived were not of the quality I wanted to sell to my clients. I have had to change 4 out of the 6 with new engines, transmissions, transfer cases etc . Do complete interior rip outs on all 6 and complete paint jobs on a few. It has been a seemingly never, ending nightmare.

Shayne Young, was the ‘only guy in town’ (or so I believed) who had the knowledge, the experience and the ability to fix my Defender vehicles. I paid him in excess of $60k over the course of only 12 months, to which he never completed not even one project, and forced me into a position where I had repay $100k’s of dollars in refunds to customers who ran out of patience waiting for their builds to be completed. One customer demanded his money back in full and another decided to have the car shipped to his local mechanic to finish the vehicle. Two customers were refunded large discounts as they chose to take delivery of unfinished vehicles rather than leave the trucks in the hands of Shayne until a completion they feared would never happen.

Amazingly, at one point in our relationship, I formally proposed to buy his business, “Prestige European’, in the middle of 2014. After commissioning a full background check however, it emerged he was on bail for a number of offences, not least a 3rd degree felony charge for not remitting sales tax that he had collected, to the state of Florida, a crime punishable with up to 5 years in prison. After further investigation into his criminal past not only in the USA but extending across Europe and to his home country of Australia, it was enough to make anyone run a mile. A quick search on Broward Country Official Public Records alone is 7 pages long. Feel free to look for yourself.

https://officialrecords.broward.org/oncoreV2/

The business “The shop on Broward’ is actually under his wife’s name and not surprisingly, was closed earlier this year before the April cut off. However, he has opened and closed a large number of companies over the past few years, all operating out of the same premises. My lawyer advised me not to get involved with the purchase of his company.

From this point on I kept my professional relationship with Shayne in order to recover some of my losses and finish my vehicles.

There is not enough time in my day or yours to go into everything that has happened, but suffice it to say that if you know Shayne, you might know what ordeals I have been through. However, as I was at his shop almost every day from January 2014 thru to March 2015, I know that I’m the only mug whose cars he was working on to this extent. You may be familiar with a few DIY projects of his own; don’t believe for one second a paying customer gets anything better.

If I focus only on this white D90 build, I hope you will finally understand the issues at large.
Upon delivery of the D90 to his premises at 711 W Broward Boulevard, Fort Lauderdale - which company was operating there at the time I don't know, it could have been - The Rover Shop/Prestige European/The Shop on Broward/Down Under Up over Enterprises/ Saab Service/ Prestige Euro Tech Service/Prestige British Auto Service/ Oztralia Inc, but it was May 2014. A number of items were flagged as problems/issues and immediately a complete works list was agreed upon. After 4 months of doing nothing Shayne finally began addressing items on the works list. After a repair bill in excess of $12k, I then advertised the car for sale. I sold the car a few weeks later and the customer came to collect at 9am on a Friday morning according to the schedule agreed upon by Shayne. Shayne, in his usual fashion, had not finished the repairs and the customer did not leave his premises until 10pm that night. 100 miles down the road the engine exploded. The customer, a devoted Defender lover, stayed with the project and Shayne convinced him and myself a diesel to gas conversion was the best route. Shayne specified the equipment, the flat project price of $12k and the time frame in which he would complete it. We paid a deposit against the set project price and with a quoted 6-week time frame, Shayne started. This was September 24th 2014….

…..Seven months later, after 2 transmissions, 2 engines, an exhaust that didn't even arrive until February, moving from a Gems setup to a 14CUX setup, 3 fuel pump failures, 2 distributor setups, at least 3 radiator setups and a range of excuses for delays that ranged from the mundane to the truly specular all combined with the reality that the customer had now flown into Florida 5 separate times to pick up his car, as instructed by Shayne, but he always had to leave without the Defender – It was decided it was best that when Shayne had fully finally finished, I was to pick the Defender up, get it valeted and use it for a week to iron out any problems before the customer flew back in for the 6th time.

I got a text message from Shayne on the 13th April saying ‘I think I’m done with it…’ he sent this after a long conversation with the owner saying it was ready for me to pickup. After going to his shop everyday for the next 10 days because it wasn’t finished, the wheels weren’t even on it when I went round on the 13th, he finally verbally said he was completely finished, there was nothing more he could do and I drove it away on the 23rd April.

After less than 8 minutes down the road driving at no more than 40 mph it raced to 230 degrees (this is with the A/C off ). It took me over an hour of stop/start to get 10 miles down the road. I decided to take it to another local mechanic who deemed the car not road worthy after having diagnosed a few initial problems, such as numerous concerning engine knocks and ticks, oil leaks and worryingly, the fire risks that were prevalent, most notably from the mess of a wiring harness resting on the transmission and a plastic fuel filter rated to only 7 psi which Shayne had badly installed with 90 degree bends next to the exhaust. At this point, I decided that there was no point in taking the vehicle back to Shayne for him to spend another 2 months trying to fix his problems, just to be exactly in the same position.

Enough was enough.

We have spent a further $20k fixing his mess over the past 3 months. Myself and my customer are not afraid to spend money, provided we get sound workmanship and a completed product. I am attaching just a few pictures of the work Shayne did. I am no mechanic, although I have learnt a great deal over the past 2 years, and I’m getting good at recognizing bad workmanship when I see it.

At this point, all communication moved to email as Shayne has a way of twisting verbal conversations and as this was a 3-way conversation everything needed to be documented. His initial idea was to pull the engine out again and for him to rebuild another new engine. We instructed him that we were not prepared to do this and were having the vehicle independently assessed. We asked for a final proposed bill so we could understand where we were. Shayne simply replied ‘send me pictures’. After a week, we emailed again saying that the independent analysis had not been favorable and again requested the final bill, to which he replied he was calling the police and that I was to have a nice day, or ‘what was left of it’. At this point we had no choice but to bring our lawyers into the communications and to this day, 3 months on, Shayne has refused to acknowledge a single email or send us the bill.

Both myself and my client sent Shayne emails requesting a bill so that we could sit down and work out if we owed him anything. We still want to settle the bill based on the initial deposit, our inventory of parts still in Shayne’s possession, minus the parts and work that have failed on the vehicle. Our lawyer has also sent written requests asking for a final bill without response.

His comments of a proposed bill of $32k is quite frankly, unbelievable, when the verbal agreement between all parties was a flat fee of $12k. We did part way into the build add a brake package as the brakes were not man enough for the more powerful engine, so we did a disc brake conversion, of which all parts were supplied to Shayne FOC apart from the donor axles which Shayne removed off a $500 scrap Discovery. There were no other major items added to the build.

The police did indeed call myself and my client around 3 weeks ago, as it was their duty to follow up from a complaint, and within 48 hours they called back to say they would not be taking the case any further as nothing criminal had occurred and it was for us to work out civilly. For Shayne to be claiming he is filing charges of Grand Larceny is just another example of his childishness, as only the police can file criminal charges.

If Shayne continues to refuse to communicate with our lawyers, then we are by the end of this week, considering this matter closed. He has in excess of $10k worth of our assets on his premises, some of which he has already attempted to sell on this forum and eBay without our permission.

I personally feel we have saved Shayne a lot of trouble by finishing the project elsewhere. After 8 months he was unable to do the work and the other mechanic has not only fully replaced and repaired everything but also fitted another reconditioned 4.6L V8 immaculately in less than 8 weeks. I am sure Shayne is quietly thankful the project is out of his hands as it was a project beyond his capabilities.

Shayne continues to this day to harass my family with threats mainly by text messages, claiming police are going to be turning up on their doorstep and he is watching their every move. The latest has been an ominous round of emoticons. It is so juvenile it’s sadly no longer a joke and he needs to stop.

If you don’t believe a word I have written, then you should look at the Better Business Bureau and see a complaint against Shayne from 2013 where he did exactly the same to someone else, although her build took 2.5 years.

One consumer complaint resolved for The Rover Shop/European Only - South East Florida BBB


I have nothing to hide, if you want to talk, send me an email and we can exchange numbers.

lee@savagedefender.com.
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  #19  
Old July 14th, 2015, 07:55 PM
Savage Defender
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L Savage
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Video of battery compartment

Might as well share these videos. Remember this is a finished project...
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  #20  
Old July 14th, 2015, 08:09 PM
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LostChord
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Brian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Defender View Post
Might as well share these videos. Remember this is a finished project...
I've seen this post somewhere before...
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