I will try and organize this best I can but for the most part this tread will be me adding pics on the fly of the work in progress on my latest addition.
Vehicle: 1986 3dr 110 - 2.5NA diesel, LT77
Purchase: I had been at a point with my NAS 90 ST where I wasn't sure I wanted to go any further with it. I had in my mind that I wanted a galvy chassis, diesel, and a rig I wasn't too concerned with taking in the woods. Also with 3 kids the 90 was a little right on room.
I had been looking in the classifieds, on eBay and the like. I had seen this blue 3dr on eBay a few times. On the last day of the current auction with just a few hours left the seller dropped the price $3k. I snuck it by the wife and did BIN on my phone.
With all that was going done with the stories of customs and hardly any pics and low seller rating I was a bit nervous. But I got some big help from Doug @ Dividing Creek and she eventually got here. Bug thanks to Doug for helping this newb out - I had a ton of questions and was always emailing for status updates.
Here are some pics:
On the trailer coming home
Driveway shot
Interior - pretty snotty
A buddy of mine said he had some paint that would make the front grille and light surrounds look ton better so he took them for a night and gave it a clean up and spray. Best looking thing on it right now
A buddy of mine said he had some paint that would make the front grille and light surrounds look ton better so he took them for a night and gave it a clean up and spray. Best looking thing on it right now
Motor - Mercedes OM617 - I've been reading RDavis' posts about his conversion kit and also a little on Jarek's Disco 2 that has the same engine on the NJ Rover site. Going with a 200tdi would be a straight forward install and cheaper and easier engine but I like how (at least from reading) the OM617 revs more and seems to be smoother. I cut my teeth wrenching on W115's with the 240D back when I was a adolescent. At the time my dad would pull the diesel for the the 250 or 280 gas motors. But I remember how insanely solid everything on those vehicles were and they have been essentially a base-line for quality & function for any vehicle for me in years past.
Tranny/T-Case - I am thinking LT77 and obviously a LT230 but with 1.4 gears. Maybe a short R380. I need more drive time in my 110 with the LT77 to see what I like and don't
Chassis - I have been talking with RN about a 110 galvy frame. Could I get away with the current frame? Maybe but it would require a lot work and it looks like it has been patched a number of times already.
Axles/Suspension - I still have my RovingTracks/Toyota E-Locker axles on the shelf. Also RovingTracks trailing arms, and HD steering components. Those parts and Fox Emulsion shocks match to stock 110 rear spring and a OME HD 2" spring for the front.
I am going to compile parts and get a rolling chassis built this fall. That way I can take my time and get parts/work on it when I have the time. Yes, I have a LT77 and LT230 in the vehicle now but I want to make sure what I put in is in top shape. It is my first time doing this so I am sure there will be a ton of little things I will have to figure out. But if I can get something rollable and runnable for the spring and then swap the body out within a month I won't have much down time.
Some pics of the what I was trying to bang out this week. On the one hand I hate the 2 bolt per corner seat base design as the M6 screw heads all strip. But at least Rover kept the same hole spacing as the later models and I just had to shift it to one of the sets. Used a button head for the unused side to make it look decent. Had to fabricate 4 plates with 2 welded M8 nuts each.
Then I had to mod an old adapter bracket I made years ago to get the Corbeaus to work. I love these seats and I still have a lot of cleaning and some paint work but they feel great.
Some pics of the P&P Cage install. Overall not too bad. I love how there aren't any directions with pictures and the written ones they do include are worthless.
But once I figured it out, it's a nice setup. The front seems really strong and ties into one of the outriggers. The rear ties into the rear cross member but doesn't bolt all the way to the rear hoop. I am either missing a piece or it doesn't need it. I might fabricate one, once I do the final.
Thanks Clay (1of40) and for the door to door delivery! The welded tabs for seatbelts in the rear are going to work out mint.
I will take more underneath pics for anyone else that is doing one of these cage installs.
Add on: the last pic shows the new 255 Km2's on Britpart NATO style rims in silver.
I also had to take off the stock tow hitch/plow and popped in JSQ's rear receiver. Looks a lot cleaner and gives a lot more clearance.
One thing about the P&P cage kit was the 8.8 grade bolts vs 10.4. I added some of the beefier ones that I had and on the final build I will use grade 10.4s all around.
One thing about the P&P cage kit was the 8.8 grade bolts vs 10.4. I added some of the beefier ones that I had and on the final build I will use grade 10.4s all around.
I wouldn't worry about replacing the 8.8 bolts on the P&P cage. At a minimum 27,000 lbs per M8 bolt shear force, with four bolts per cage attachment point, that's 111,000lbs per cage attachment point, or the entire weight of the truck experiencing 18G's concentrated on one attachment point.
The roll cage tubing will fail before the 8.8 fasteners do.
Good to see this under way. Show us some frame pics - no way to tell if you can use it or not otherwise. My gut says if you are going to all this effort you want to replace the frame too
Thanks Charles - my plan since I got it was to just order a new frame. That way I can build up a rolling chassis with those Toy axles and put the OM617 on it as well. I might even put a galvy bulkhead on while I am at it.
Then I can still drive it around and enjoy it over the next few months to half year. I am hoping I can take it to Rovers on the Rocks this fall.
------ Follow up post added August 17th, 2013 02:26 PM ------
Thanks Jim - agree with the P&P stuff. There really wasn't much massaging it even with a 26 year old body and frame. And the soft top pieces for the front fit well too.
I am going to drive it around a few months and see if I like it. It does look "right" but weird as hell when I took it out for a short spin.
Damn, getting late model seats to fit the early seat boxes is a PITA! I had to make 8 brackets (actually 12 as I flubbed up the first 4) so I had a solid M8 bolt to thread into. At least I got some time on the torch. I used M8 button hex head so it looks pretty clean. I had some old brackets I made out of 1" square on the shelf that I welded more M8 nuts to for a bung. Then sand and paint them. Pretty long job for something not that big but the Corbeau's are really comfy to me.
Also installed ST doors but the white is killing me. I might just DA them and rattle can them in a close enough blue.
I made some similar frames up, to fit some Disco1 seats into my 90. Went well. they're comfy, and cheap too!
Trouble is, with my P&P cage, i've got the internal hoop as well, so the D1 seats wouldn't fit into the 110
These seats are pretty close. Do you have have the bulkhead still? I think P&P sells one that is more like a NAS ST style. I have been thinking of removing the bulkhead to have some extra room.
Material on the brackets is cheap. Too bad the fab time for me takes forever!
The 110 is a SW, so no bulkhead on that (prior to fitting the internal hoop, I could roll the disco seats right back flat, so could almost sleep on them).
the 90 i've cut the bulkhead to half height, with a slight angle on the edges, but it enables the seats to roll and push back an extra couple of inches... makes all the difference to comfort!
Thank Clay! It came out pretty good didn't it? I love how it looks and fits and seems like it would hold a house with how solid it is. The only problem is the cage is so much nicer than the rest of the truck, haha.
------ Follow up post added September 4th, 2013 02:16 PM ------
I notice with TIG that the cleaner things are it produces such a nicer weld. So that takes me forever and then I need to spend forever making sure things are totally straight. I can burn (couldn't resist) an hour easy. Very satisfying but a little stressful in a busy household,
The low front high rear stance was killing me every time I looked at the truck so Friday I swapped out the front suspension. Why bother when I am going to do a new frame and running gear anyway? IDK, guess I am a mental case.
OME springs from the white 90
Disco 2 shock tower rings
Terrafirma cheap shocks - can't beat $44 each
Used shock towers from eBay - the original ones were rusty and splitting.
Yes, the frame is pretty rusty but solid enough. While in there I wire brushed best I could and gave it a good coat of spray paint. 2 different shock brands came out and neither had any rebound. The old springs had the bottom 3 or 4 coils touching so I figured they were toast too.
I need to take a side view as it now sits level and rides and handles better.
Have a 600# lump sitting in the garage. 250k on the W123 it came out of but it sounded nice when we ran it before they took it out.
I have most of Robert Davis's kit on the bench. All the pieces look sweet and can't wait to start doing this job. Hoping on can start turning wrenches on it in December.
Have a 600# lump sitting in the garage. 250k on the W123 it came out of but it sounded nice when we ran it before they took it out.
I have most of Robert Davis's kit on the bench. All the pieces look sweet and can't wait to start doing this job. Hoping on can start turning wrenches on it in December.
Oh crap I must have missed this was the plan! Nice!!!! Jarek will have his Merc enging going again soon. They are sweet engines...and (nearly) bomb proof.
I need to finish up building a bike as well! Got a Turner 5 Spot frame. I know 26ers are dead but i still like them. Hope things are going well with you - it's been a long while.
------ Follow up post added September 26th, 2013 09:36 AM ------
The one I bought I got for $700. I know you can get them cheaper but I didn't want to mess around. Another option if you have time/space is to buy a ratty W123 for cheap, pull the motor then scrap the car. You might be able to be net neutral if you don't include your time. There are a lot of these cars and by design once the bodies go, they really go, and the motors if taken care of are known to go a really long time. This one has 250k on the car it came out of but sounded so much smoother than the 2.5 in my 110 with 150k. Check the thread out by Robert Davis - it has a bunch more info and he is the diesel Jedi master.
------ Follow up post added September 26th, 2013 09:37 AM ------
I have been going back and forth with what to do with a tailgate and spare tire carrier. At first I was thinking ST gate and Mantec or NAS tire carrier. Then I saw how people cut a SW door and got it to work that is right after I gave away my carrier.
So looking in the shop and seeing.2 sticks of 1.5" square tubing I have been tripping over all year long, I figured I would make my own gate and build it like its a tire carrier.
I still have a bunch more fab work but got the outside frame done today. I ha to straighten it so use a piece of tubing and drove the Suburban on it. Seems like a good test and the sucker didn't flex much at all.
Anyway pics...
Let me know what you guys think - I have a pretty good idea what direction I am going but always like to listen to ideas.
I think you will have a hard time sealing the bottom. The stock door is tapered. Not that it matters with an open bed. . I assume you are going to mount the stock style door tire carrier to it? What is the end deisgn?
For the $150 a tailgate would cost it seems like a lot of work though.
I think you will have a hard time sealing the bottom. The stock door is tapered. Not that it matters with an open bed. . I assume you are going to mount the stock style door tire carrier to it? What is the end deisgn? For the $150 a tailgate would cost it seems like a lot of work though.
Ahh, but It will have a little bit of a taper - I need to weld a piece of angle steel to the outside and for the bottom I might add a little more weld then grind it smooth. Plus like you said it's an open bed
Stock SW tire carrier will go on it - and it will be bolted solidly to the verticals I will add. The stock design seems pretty flexy and I noticed a sizable crack on the one I am using.
$150 for a tailgate? I wish - I could not many and the cheapest I saw was $250 before shipping from SafariHP. Cost wise I am in for a fair bit but if didn't give away my stock door it would be in for essentially cost. ST style would be $200 for the gate and $300+ for the tire carrier.
Couple of other thoughts going into this:
- on my ST with carrier - even with new bushings - that fucker rattled
-the ST carrier is pretty heavy - so if I can make this one door lighter than the carrier but just as strong I am better off. I will weigh it at the end to compare. (And yes I know I am over thinking this)
-the ass end of a 110 is big say I can save a few inches keeping the tire on the door - it might help on trail? (again splitting hairs like above)
- I am hoping the end result is a little cleaner overall than a ST and carrier setup - I may have to go beefier hinges or at the very least tie it in with the corner/cage support.
But I do like the comments/suggestions - makes me think things out more.
What if you made a spare carrier that swung away and then used a drop down tailgate? I liked having the drop down on my 90 for a place to sit - and set stuff down, but hated having the spare in the tub as it took up so much space.
Just thinking here... What if you made a spare carrier that swung away and then used a drop down tailgate? I liked having the drop down on my 90 for a place to sit - and set stuff down, but hated having the spare in the tub as it took up so much space.
That sounds like a nice idea but for this 3 door 110 - the rear will be an in/out for the kids getting into the rear seating. For a 110 crew can that tailgate set up would be the trick.
------ Follow up post added October 4th, 2013 03:08 AM ------
I think the hinges will be the weak link. Tailgates must have gone up recently. In an open top three door, the side fitting in the bed seemed ideal for the spare to me.
I agree that getting the spare inside would be nice and clean. But my plan is to put 4 fold up seats in the back to haul the kids. Yes, building a church for Christmas in a way but it is fun when they ride in the Defender.
------ Follow up post added October 4th, 2013 03:10 AM ------
I think the hinges will be the weak link. Tailgates must have gone up recently. In an open top three door, the side fitting in the bed seemed ideal for the spare to me.
Welded some of the small angle steel to create the lip for the skin to hook on. A little overkill but I am going to run bead all the way across on both sides. I need the TIG practice plus should seal better. Maybe with some primer and paint it might look halfway decent.
Sold my ok welder and bought my buddy's Miller so was down on the fab work.
Grafted the latch piece onto the new gate. Shitty metal = shitty welds but it looks to have bonded well. It sorta gives a gusset effect although I had to splice some metal out of the square tubing.
A little more progress but about 90% done fabrication wise. It seems to hold my 35's no problem. The only issue being I have to put them on backwards. After rough calculations it looks like the tire should be a 2" taller and 2" closer to the vehicle - compared to a stock tire carrier setup.
Like Evilfij said the hinges will be the weak link. I will use stock for now and then fabricate a pair of HD ones using a hinge kit off of eBay. They have bushings much like the ST tire carrier so it should be plenty. But I will see how far the stock hinges last.
I am hoping I can prime and paint it next week and finally have a tailgate on this thing by the end of next week. I want to finish getting the rear lights sorted and the back seats back installed before it gets cold.
I like the tailgate Don. If you are going to fill the gaps in with plate, it would be neat if you could have the panels be recessed, like a stock tailgate.
Hey Macker - thanks - I am going to use a cut down SW door skin to cover it up. So it will be smooth on the outside. On the inside I might keep it bare and just paint it. That way I can keep an eye on the structure and if any cracks develop.
Although I do like your idea - thin gauge could be cut and butt welded in between and would look pretty neat.
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