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  #101  
Old August 24th, 2014, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
When I first got to the USA I worked for a company called prestige european transmissions.. (I finished up buying the business many years later) but all we did was european auto atic transmissions and I recall them always being zf trannys.. I admit that was in the 90's.. But I also just realized that I think the thread is about manual trannys.. So disregard my rankings if that is the case..lol..
4L30e:
1992–1998 BMW 318i
1997–1999 BMW 323i
1992–1995 BMW 325i
1996–1999 BMW 328i
1990–1996 BMW 518i:[1] Type A
1990–1996 BMW 525i
1992–1996 BMW 525td:[1] Type B
1996–1999 BMW 528i
1996–2000 BMW Z3

5L40e:
2000-2006 BMW E46
1997-2003 BMW E39
BMW X3, X5

Then they updated a bit, I forget the numbers on that one, but you get the idea. I think you may be remembering buying a prolific European tranny or two but they weren't all ZFs not by a long sight. A whole LOT of BMW cars shipped out with these French made General Motors boxes.
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  #102  
Old August 24th, 2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
If you look closely at the construction, there are "pads" where the bolt holes go. Even if after the clocking, you didn't run into ribs or it being really thin where your new holes would go, I don't think it would have the same strength. I'd be very wary of this.
Yeah, good point. It'll probably need reinforcement.
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  #103  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
A whole LOT of BMW cars shipped out with these French made General Motors boxes.
....and, in general, they all suck.

Particularly if you like having a reverse gear.

So donor parts, such as bell housings, shouldn't be in short supply.
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  #104  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:21 AM
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Sorry for asking a dumb question, but I feel this is a critical one: does the lt230 bolt up directly to these transmissions? If not what needs to be adapted?
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  #105  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but I feel this is a critical one: does the lt230 bolt up directly to these transmissions? If not what needs to be adapted?
Not a dumb question

The vital point is the bellhousing from the Land Rover ZF (if you are doing automatic trans) can be swapped out with the BMW ZF bellhousing which obviously will mate the BMW engine to the Rover ZF, and therefore, the LT230 on the end.

If your donor BMW came with a ZF automatic then your ahead of the game. If it came with the GM trans, or you want to use/keep a manual, youll need to find one of these south african bellhousings.
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  #106  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam001 View Post
How it drives is a interesting one, 2.8L is plenty to get you going, below 2.5k RPM you need to rev it like you would a car, gentle throttle is fine for getting about, but if you are trying to accelerate up-to highway speeds you need to get it toward 3k to make swift progress. Once you hit 3-3.2k the VANOs alters the inlet cam and you get a considerable and very noticeable increase in power. However when you want to, if you plant it and drive to the red line through the gears it's quite impressive (and sounds great!).

In short, I'm more than happy.

I'm running a 1.41 transfer box and 265/75 tyres, I think the African cars may have used 1.667 but I can't remember off the top of my head.

Adam
Nice. The autobox sure takes a lot from the engine. Have to revv the poo poo out of it to get it going. Interstate speeds (70mph+) are doable, but not fun. I can't maintain speed up Afton Mtn here. Have to hop off the interstate and do 55 in 2nd gear up the secondary rd that parallels the interstate.

But I do like the autobox for towing and offroading. Just have to get more power and re-gear.
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  #107  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by slammin_LWB View Post
Nice. The autobox sure takes a lot from the engine. Have to revv the poo poo out of it to get it going. Interstate speeds (70mph+) are doable, but not fun. I can't maintain speed up Afton Mtn here. Have to hop off the interstate and do 55 in 2nd gear up the secondary rd that parallels the interstate.

But I do like the autobox for towing and offroading. Just have to get more power and re-gear.
You just need a 1.4 transfer case, one sold on here the other night for under $400
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  #108  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:24 AM
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Sounds great! I am so glad that there are all these drop in alternatives for engine/tranny swaps. Between the auto v8, auto 300tdi, and now auto BMW engines, it gives me a lot of confidence knowing about these alternatives
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  #109  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:38 AM
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You guys need to put your efforts into making the 2UZ-FE work. I think everybody would install one of those in their Rover in a heart beat. I know I would.
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  #110  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:40 AM
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The M57 diesel will be the real gem of a swap when somebody figures it out on this side of the pond.

A lot of competition trucks running it, tuned to some very impressive power numbers (like 350hp)

(And its a USA federalized engine)

Harness to make it run: http://www.rallyraid.co.uk/shop/prod...p?prod=EL_1059

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57

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  #111  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
The M57 diesel will be the real gem of a swap when somebody figures it out on this side of the pond.

A lot of competition trucks running it, tuned to some very impressive power numbers (like 350hp)

(And its a USA federalized engine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57
That sounds nice also.
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  #112  
Old August 25th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
The M57 diesel will be the real gem of a swap when somebody figures it out on this side of the pond.

A lot of competition trucks running it, tuned to some very impressive power numbers (like 350hp)

(And its a USA federalized engine)

Harness to make it run: http://www.rallyraid.co.uk/shop/prod...p?prod=EL_1059

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M57

I was actually looking up alternative swaps for defenders and this came up as an option. Its an ECU driven motor so a lot of the bits to make it stand-alone are expensive and obviously the cost of entry to get your hands on the diesel makes it a bit too spendy here.

Now, I searched high and low on the forum but I couldn't find it anywhere, the OM606 merc diesel is a 3.0L diesel that can be made mechanical with some very basic mods. There are also kits in existence to mount a GM transmission behind one.

Trying to figure out why guys are putting om617's into their D's but aren't looking at the 606 (which, by all accounts, is a very superior engine). There is a cost difference but the 606 was present in US Mercs until 99
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  #113  
Old August 25th, 2014, 12:07 PM
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The M57 ECU appears to be very easy to make run in standalone form - either with or without the immobilizer.

Now, everything I have read is based on the euro version of the engine. It is unknown what may be different with the NA spec harness and ECU.

These engines are expensive in the USA but it might be viable to import one from abroad (just like a Tdi). They were prolific in 530d guise.
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  #114  
Old August 25th, 2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Trying to figure out why guys are putting om617's into their D's but aren't looking at the 606 (which, by all accounts, is a very superior engine). There is a cost difference but the 606 was present in US Mercs until 99
I'm sure people are looking into the OM606, but the problem is that no-one offers a comprehensive adapter kit for it.

The only reason people are going with the OM617 is because rdavis put his money and effort into developing the swap.
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  #115  
Old August 25th, 2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Trying to figure out why guys are putting om617's into their D's but aren't looking at the 606 (which, by all accounts, is a very superior engine). There is a cost difference but the 606 was present in US Mercs until 99
About 5 years ago, bought an OM606 that was later sold because I didn't see any way it would fit in a Defender style engine bay. That's when I started on the OM617. It was a chore to get the OM617 to fit, but with the right amount of perseverance all the issues were overcome. With enough time and money, suppose someone could find a way to fit the OM606, but there was no practical way I could determine to build a kit to fit the OM606 into a Defender style vehicle.

The OM606 also has a bad reputation regarding head and head gasket issues and premature piston and connecting rod failures. I think these were all overcome with factory recalls and upgrades.
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  #116  
Old August 25th, 2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
The M57 diesel will be the real gem of a swap when somebody figures it out on this side of the pond.

A lot of competition trucks running it, tuned to some very impressive power numbers (like 350hp)

(And its a USA federalized engine)
I considered going with the M57, but the USA federalized twin-turbo version produces too much torque for the R380. It also costs about $3,000 more than a low mileage M54 and you’d need to install the urea injection system and DPF. If the DME requires CAN bus, DSC, etc like the other newer BMW engines you'd need to have it flashed to disable all of that before putting it in the Defender and finding someone to do that might be challenging. There is an aftermarket engine management solution available from Simtek (£2950.00) but it wouldn't be legal to use since it’s not designed for US emissions. It also wouldn't be able to control the urea injection system since Euro motors don’t have that. It’s a pretty powerful engine, but it’s not as magnificent as you might think that would warrant the extra cost and swap complexity over the M54. I've driven my friend’s X5 xDrive35d and it’s a great car but it feels only ever so slightly more powerful than his old X5 xDrive30i with the naturally aspirated N52 petrol and fuel mileage is only marginally better. The M57 also suffers from carbon buildup on the intake valves like all of BMW’s direct injection turbos, so expect to have to clean those down the road.
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  #117  
Old August 25th, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I'm sure people are looking into the OM606, but the problem is that no-one offers a comprehensive adapter kit for it.

The only reason people are going with the OM617 is because rdavis put his money and effort into developing the swap.
These guys have the adapter plate:
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/...s%20diesel.htm
This gentleman fit it with the advised PM603 IP swap (Mechanical) and a different sump/oil pan from a 3.2CDI
http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/159894?page=2
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  #118  
Old August 25th, 2014, 01:25 PM
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Someone start a Mercedes 606 swap thread
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  #119  
Old August 25th, 2014, 01:27 PM
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I dont know, I would certainly beg to differ on the power difference. You are talking about 228hp/221tq (M54) versus 215hp/370tq for a mild flash on the M57. The M54, while cool, does not offer any power increase over a Rover V8 and actually has quite a bit less torque (by about 30%) than a cammed/chipped 4.6

The harness I posted above is able to run the BMW ECU as a standalone unit and could also eliminate the DPF and urea systems.

In any case the innovation here is cool. BMW has a very nice stable of engines to choose from.
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  #120  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I dont know, I would certainly beg to differ on the power difference. You are talking about 228hp/221tq (M54) versus 215hp/370tq for a mild flash on the M57. The M54, while cool, does not offer any power increase over a Rover V8 and actually has quite a bit less torque (by about 30%) than a cammed/chipped 4.6

The harness I posted above is able to run the BMW ECU as a standalone unit and could also eliminate the DPF and urea systems.

In any case the innovation here is cool. BMW has a very nice stable of engines to choose from.
Okay, but please don't make suggestions of doing blatantly illegal things like defeating or removing emissions equipment or importing non-EPA certified engines in my build thread.
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