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  #81  
Old August 20th, 2014, 11:47 AM
slammin_LWB
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Jeff
1993 RRC LWB, 2001 D2 SD
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The engine is cocked a bit to the right. Is this how it gets placed with the OE mounts and everything?

Just curious. Looks like a nice, clean swap. Interested in mileage as well.
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  #82  
Old August 20th, 2014, 12:26 PM
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LRNAD90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammin_LWB View Post
The engine is cocked a bit to the right. Is this how it gets placed with the OE mounts and everything?

Just curious. Looks like a nice, clean swap. Interested in mileage as well.
As in not straight front o back? I think that might be an optical illusion, but will let the builder comment.

I was under the impression all Defender engines are 'offset' to the driver's side for added axle clearance though, like the NAS V8's, no?
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  #83  
Old August 20th, 2014, 01:41 PM
slammin_LWB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRNAD90 View Post
As in not straight front o back? I think that might be an optical illusion, but will let the builder comment.

I was under the impression all Defender engines are 'offset' to the driver's side for added axle clearance though, like the NAS V8's, no?
I meant as in up and down. That top cover should be parallel to the ground. The oil cap should be at an angle.
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  #84  
Old August 20th, 2014, 02:30 PM
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Andrew
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Hey! That's awesome! So yours is RHD, so you pretty much have a real Defender 2.8i there. Can't wait to check out your build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam001 View Post
Thought I would join up and say hi considering I have just fitted a M52 to my defender, found your thread after searching for bits and pieces for mine on google!

Mine is on the road now and it is fantastic, being that the M54 is better you won't be disapointed!

For interest I went down the R380 / LT230 route, if you want any info I have a build thread over on LR4x4 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=76920&hl=




It's more or less as you see in this photo, but finished off (rad mounts, enclosed air filter, brackets etc). Keep meaning to take a new picture!

Adam
------ Follow up post added August 20th, 2014 11:38 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadeus View Post
What kind of fuel mileage do you get?
I'm interested in fuel mileage as well. According to the Defender 2.8i Supplemental Reference (http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=23915) the 90 is rated for 19.32 MPG (converted Imperial gallons to US gallons) extra urban, 11.32 MPG urban, and 15.32 MPG combined. With my 3.9 V8 I was averaging 11 MPG combined, so that would be an improvement. Also, the M54 is rated for 1 MPG better than the M52 in the same BMW chassis. 20 MPG on the highway in a petrol Defender would be pretty rad.
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  #85  
Old August 20th, 2014, 11:05 PM
CLMorgan
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Sweet conversion and also curious about economy & how she drives...
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  #86  
Old August 21st, 2014, 03:37 PM
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Only done 2 fill ups, driving to and from work, small journeys and it's returned 18MPG (UK, 15MPG US). Expect mid 20s on a run, just haven't done one yet, will let you know when I do.
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  #87  
Old August 22nd, 2014, 10:54 PM
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Andrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam001 View Post
Only done 2 fill ups, driving to and from work, small journeys and it's returned 18MPG (UK, 15MPG US). Expect mid 20s on a run, just haven't done one yet, will let you know when I do.
Nice. I'm optimistic. Our 99 328i with the M52TU gets 30+ MPG on the highway. I'm amazed how the 6 can go 500 miles on a tank.
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  #88  
Old August 23rd, 2014, 05:11 AM
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Sorry missed the other posts. The inclination is a odd one and yes it should sit with the top cover level, not the oil filler...here's how I did the installation in short...

The engine sits on the original LT77 gearbox mounts (200tdi) but with a R380. This means the position front/back, left/right and rotation was all decided for me. In the African cars it sat on R380 mounts, this means my engine is exactly the same in rotation and left/right but mine sits a few inches further back. The gearbox sits perfectly in the original LT77 tunnel and it's upright as it should be.

I am using a 2.5DSE P38 bellhousing, again identical to the african cars (or so I understand).

Because of this I had to make my own engine mounts, but because the gearbox/LT230 set all the positions for me the only decision I could make was how high I wanted it to suit the gearbox levers.

So in all truth I have not figured out why the engine does not sit at the right angle, it's all decided by the bellhousing, I'm about 11.5 degrees out from what it should be. Only conclusion I have been able to make it that the african cars used a different adapter on either part of the 2 piece bellhousing.

Curious whether you will find the same issue, I'm not sure how the V8 mounts are set up, but yeah mines a RHD so I couldn't fit the A/C compressor as it hit my steering box, but I did get to use the original PAS and Alternator positions.


EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLMorgan View Post
Sweet conversion and also curious about economy & how she drives...
How it drives is a interesting one, 2.8L is plenty to get you going, below 2.5k RPM you need to rev it like you would a car, gentle throttle is fine for getting about, but if you are trying to accelerate up-to highway speeds you need to get it toward 3k to make swift progress. Once you hit 3-3.2k the VANOs alters the inlet cam and you get a considerable and very noticeable increase in power. However when you want to, if you plant it and drive to the red line through the gears it's quite impressive (and sounds great!).

In short, I'm more than happy.

I'm running a 1.41 transfer box and 265/75 tyres, I think the African cars may have used 1.667 but I can't remember off the top of my head.

Adam
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  #89  
Old August 23rd, 2014, 09:56 AM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
According to the Defender 2.8i Supplemental Reference (http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=23915) the 90 is rated for 19.32 MPG (converted Imperial gallons to US gallons) extra urban, 11.32 MPG urban, and 15.32 MPG combined. With my 3.9 V8 I was averaging 11 MPG combined, so that would be an improvement. Also, the M54 is rated for 1 MPG better than the M52 in the same BMW chassis. 20 MPG on the highway in a petrol Defender would be pretty rad.
Thanks for posting the link so we can go to the thread and pull up the PDF.
Like Andrew, I have the BMW P38 R380 belhousing and am interested in this thread to see Andrew's successes regarding this conversion.
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  #90  
Old August 23rd, 2014, 04:39 PM
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Chip
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Andrew
1994 NAS Defender 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam001 View Post

I am using a 2.5DSE P38 bellhousing, again identical to the african cars (or so I understand).

So in all truth I have not figured out why the engine does not sit at the right angle, it's all decided by the bellhousing, I'm about 11.5 degrees out from what it should be. Only conclusion I have been able to make it that the african cars used a different adapter on either part of the 2 piece bellhousing.

Curious whether you will find the same issue, I'm not sure how the V8 mounts are set up, but yeah mines a RHD so I couldn't fit the A/C compressor as it hit my steering box, but I did get to use the original PAS and Alternator.
Okay, I wondered about that since the BMW M5x petrol engines have about 10 degrees more slant than the M5x diesels so this makes sense. Therefore, the engine side portion of the bellhousing must be different on the P38 compared to the ZA Defender 2.8i. Since I have the P38 bellhousing as well then mine will also be rotated like yours.
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  #91  
Old August 24th, 2014, 01:28 AM
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Andrew
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Just a follow up to my previous post:

According to Microcat these are the part numbers for the bell housing pieces:

Defender 2.8i M52 bell housing:
-Clutch housing: FTC4461
-Clutch housing adaptor: 2943111

P38 2.5 M51 bell housing:
-Clutch housing: FTC4461
-Clutch housing adaptor: FTC3424

So it is the rear piece that is specific to the Defender 2.8i and gives the petrol engine the proper orientation.
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  #92  
Old August 24th, 2014, 01:44 AM
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Chip
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Andrew
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Unless I can source the Defender 2.8i bell housing adaptor from ZA I guess I will have to modify the P38 adaptor so my engine mounts line up correctly. Hopefully I can just drill new holes in it.
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  #93  
Old August 24th, 2014, 05:42 AM
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That would explain it! If you have any luck sourcing one let me know as I will get one aswell to change mine when I get round to it.
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  #94  
Old August 24th, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Andrew
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Okay, I'll try to source one, but I think the P38 adaptor will probably work out fine. I can make a test fitment when the engine mounts arrive to see where a few new bolt holes need to be drilled.
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  #95  
Old August 24th, 2014, 11:49 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Any pictures of this part? Typically the way they are made, you won't be able to drill new holes. It shouldn't be a huge job to replicate with it clocked though.
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  #96  
Old August 24th, 2014, 12:00 PM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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I would be very surprised if the BMW bell housing doesn't fit.. The zf transmission was used in almost every BMW...you may find a BMW bell housing is clocked differently..go down to your local tranny shop.. The usually have lots of bell housing laying around.. I know mine does..
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  #97  
Old August 24th, 2014, 01:31 PM
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Chip
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Andrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Any pictures of this part? Typically the way they are made, you won't be able to drill new holes. It shouldn't be a huge job to replicate with it clocked though.
I can get a better pic of it when I'm out at the other place later, but here's a pic of one on eBay. It's the smaller piece on the left:



And on allbrit.de, # 4 on the pic:



The bolts thread into the other piece so I don't see why new holes couldn't be made in the other.

------ Follow up post added August 24th, 2014 10:33 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
I would be very surprised if the BMW bell housing doesn't fit.. The zf transmission was used in almost every BMW...you may find a BMW bell housing is clocked differently..go down to your local tranny shop.. The usually have lots of bell housing laying around.. I know mine does..
This isn't for the ZF auto transmission. It's for the R380.
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  #98  
Old August 24th, 2014, 02:31 PM
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Verticalscrote
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
I would be very surprised if the BMW bell housing doesn't fit.. The zf transmission was used in almost every BMW...you may find a BMW bell housing is clocked differently..go down to your local tranny shop.. The usually have lots of bell housing laying around.. I know mine does..
LOTS of BMW have GM auto transmissions
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  #99  
Old August 24th, 2014, 02:39 PM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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When I first got to the USA I worked for a company called prestige european transmissions.. (I finished up buying the business many years later) but all we did was european auto atic transmissions and I recall them always being zf trannys.. I admit that was in the 90's.. But I also just realized that I think the thread is about manual trannys.. So disregard my rankings if that is the case..lol..
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  #100  
Old August 24th, 2014, 03:32 PM
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Charles Galpin
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If you look closely at the construction, there are "pads" where the bolt holes go. Even if after the clocking, you didn't run into ribs or it being really thin where your new holes would go, I don't think it would have the same strength. I'd be very wary of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
The bolts thread into the other piece so I don't see why new holes couldn't be made in the other.
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