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  #21  
Old July 11th, 2014, 02:16 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Andrew let me know what the BMW ecu expects in terms of input from the throttle pedal and I can tell you if the td5 pedal can be used to provide the same. I am using a td5 pedal for my electric project and know a bit about it.
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  #22  
Old July 11th, 2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
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Andrew let me know what the BMW ecu expects in terms of input from the throttle pedal and I can tell you if the td5 pedal can be used to provide the same. I am using a td5 pedal for my electric project and know a bit about it.
Okay, here is BMW's wiring diagram for the pedal:



And the ECU pinout:


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  #23  
Old July 11th, 2014, 04:50 PM
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The TD5 pedal provides two signals so that's a start. What kind of signal is the BMW expecting? The TD5 basically has 2 potentiometers that give inverse voltages that ad up to the input voltage. So if you gave it 12V, the sum of the two signals will be 12V (or some constant fraction close to 12V)

I paid way too much for my connectors, but once I had them in hand, they appear to be Delphi 12065425.
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  #24  
Old July 12th, 2014, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
The TD5 pedal provides two signals so that's a start. What kind of signal is the BMW expecting? The TD5 basically has 2 potentiometers that give inverse voltages that ad up to the input voltage. So if you gave it 12V, the sum of the two signals will be 12V (or some constant fraction close to 12V)

I paid way too much for my connectors, but once I had them in hand, they appear to be Delphi 12065425.
Thanks for the help, but I'll just use the BMW gas pedal. I don't want to risk damaging the ECU.

------ Follow up post added July 11th, 2014 10:58 PM ------

The pedal in the new BMW i3 has a couple little brackets, so I might order those to help get me started.

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  #25  
Old July 12th, 2014, 05:10 AM
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I would personally research the bmw needs more myself. What's the model # for the ECU and the pedal? It's very hard to hurt the ECU unless you get the voltage wrong. The defender TD5 uses 5V for example.

It's your build so just take it with a grain of salt, but besides being much more durable, the TD5 pedal will have the right foot resistance and pedal travel to fit in with the other pedals. I don't think you'll like the feel of the BMW pedal in the defender - the seating position is totally different.
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  #26  
Old July 12th, 2014, 08:15 AM
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Cool build. More pix of the build.... And the hair...
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  #27  
Old July 12th, 2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
I would personally research the bmw needs more myself. What's the model # for the ECU and the pedal? It's very hard to hurt the ECU unless you get the voltage wrong. The defender TD5 uses 5V for example.

It's your build so just take it with a grain of salt, but besides being much more durable, the TD5 pedal will have the right foot resistance and pedal travel to fit in with the other pedals. I don't think you'll like the feel of the BMW pedal in the defender - the seating position is totally different.
Yes, that's true. It'll probably work out okay though. Land Rover put the BMW pedal in the L322 Range Rover. The pedal I bought is part # 35426858575. The ECU is a Siemens MS43 from a 2002 330i.

------ Follow up post added July 12th, 2014 02:10 PM ------

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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I would consider swapping the steering box to a P38a or scout II steering box. They mount outside the rails. Having owned a DBW 530i, the pedal mounting will be interesting to say the least with the shape of the D90 bulkhead.
I've considered using the P38 steering box, but I'd like to avoid doing that if I can. I'm not sure how I'd avoid running into a problem with the panhard rod bracket. If I can't fit the alternator, I'll mount it on the other side of the engine, but then of course I couldn't fit the A/C compressor. I've been trying to decide whether I want to keep A/C and I believe I do. If I have to mount the alternator there then it looks like I could probably get an electric A/C compressor from a Toyota Prius.

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  #28  
Old July 16th, 2014, 05:47 AM
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AC compressor from a prius...i like where this build is going!
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  #29  
Old July 16th, 2014, 06:04 AM
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Prius AC compressor: potential on board air....
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  #30  
Old July 16th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Prius AC compressor: potential on board air....
The power consumption and price make that option a bit prohibitive. I think you can find something but you'll need a second alternator or a high output to keep a compressor like that running...
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  #31  
Old July 16th, 2014, 11:20 AM
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The power consumption is not an issue. I believe it is a Denso ES18, 3.4kW model operating at 7500rpm @ 18 cc/rev. This corresponds to 0.476 cfm which is not sufficient for OBA use.
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  #32  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:23 PM
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Hmm, well what I'll probably end up doing is making a bracket to just move the alternator up a bit so I can mount the regular BMW compressor. I believe it's a Denso 7SBU16C.
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  #33  
Old July 18th, 2014, 10:00 AM
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Chip, you should strongly consider the advice to use the TD5 pedal.

Every European car that I know of uses a 5V reference signal and a pair of inverse signals from the pedal to the ECU.

The BMW pedal is hokey.
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  #34  
Old July 18th, 2014, 10:09 AM
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Once you get this up and running, the next project should be a BMW V12 swap.
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  #35  
Old July 18th, 2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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Once you get this up and running, the next project should be a BMW V12 swap.
I think I just heard an R380 scream.
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  #36  
Old July 18th, 2014, 11:09 AM
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Before it suffered an massive melt down.
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  #37  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Chip, you should strongly consider the advice to use the TD5 pedal.

Every European car that I know of uses a 5V reference signal and a pair of inverse signals from the pedal to the ECU.

The BMW pedal is hokey.
The wiring diagram for the TD5 pedal doesn't give very much info and it has a different number of wires compared to the BMW pedal. Do you know what each wire is?
Here's the TD5 accelerator pedal wiring diagram:



Now, I've looked up the diagram for the TDCi/Puma accelerator pedal and it looks like it may be more compatible. It has 6 wires just like the BMW gas pedal and it tells you what the wires are. Except I don't know what those terms mean. Can you tell if 2 are voltage supply (output from DME), 2 are signal (input to DME), and 2 are ground like on the BMW pedal?

Here's the TDCi/Puma accelerator pedal wiring diagram:



------ Follow up post added July 18th, 2014 01:32 PM ------

It looks like the TDCi/Puma pedal is a Ford design. I found this in regards to the pedal in the Ford Escape:

"There are two pedal position signals in the sensor. Both signals, APP1 and APP2, have a positive slope (increasing angle, increasing voltage), but are offset and increase at different rates. The two pedal position signals make sure the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) receives a correct input even if one signal has a concern. The PCM determines if a signal is incorrect by calculating where it should be, inferred from the other signals. If a concern is present with one of the circuits the other input is used. There are two reference voltage circuits, two signal return circuits, and two signal circuits (a total of six circuits and pins) between the PCM and the APP sensor assembly. " -From AutoZone

It doesn't say anything about 2 of them being ground, but are the "two signal return circuits" grounds? Because according to the Lucas wire colour code, SIGRTN and SIGRTN4 should be grounds, correct?

So based on the diagram and Ford's description this is what I have:
-APP1 and APP2 are signals
-The 2 APPBVREF's are voltage supply
-SIGRTN and SIGRTN4 are ground

Think that is correct?

But then I am unsure which APPBVREF and which SIGRTN corresponds to which APP, or if it matters.
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  #38  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:49 PM
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Still though, I paid $100 for the BMW pedal and $700 for the ECU & tune, so I'm going to use the BMW pedal and not risk playing around with an untested configuration. Someone else can try using the other pedals.
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  #39  
Old July 19th, 2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Once you get this up and running, the next project should be a BMW V12 swap.
Hell would have to freeze over before I put a massive gas guzzling V12 in anything. Ideally I'd put BMW's new 4 cylinder twin-turbo diesel in a Defender for ideal weight distribution and fuel efficiency, but at this point it's much too expensive.
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  #40  
Old July 22nd, 2014, 06:08 PM
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Today I’ve been researching the air intake system. I was originally intending on just using a K&N cone filter pointed off to the side of the plenum. But that would just suck hot air in from the engine compartment, so I’ve decided I want to replicate the Defender 2.8i's original air intake system which sucks cold air via a duct system attached to a vent on the side of the truck like on the diesels. I've found the air cleaner assembly, which is NLA from Land Rover, was made by Donaldson. The filter has part number P772579. According to Donaldson's tech data sheet, they currently make 4 air cleaners that take that filter that are similar to the one used in the Defender 2.8i. Model G070009 is used in a plethora of tractors and other equipment made by John Deere, Bobcat, Komatsu, etc. This website came up with a cross-reference of the part numbers: http://filterspro.com/results.cfm?searchfor=G070009. However, I haven't been able to find out which exact models came with that air cleaner so it would probably be hard to find a used one at a salvage yard. I've scoured eBay with no success. I’ll probably order it from John Deere. As far as the ducts to the outside, I can just use generic tubing. My truck though of course doesn't have the side vent so I'd either have to cut it out, which wouldn't look very nice, or replace the outer wing. I guess the best idea would be to route it to the existing vent on the top wing, but I have to figure out how to prevent water from getting in there. I don’t really want to install a snorkel. Maybe I can use one of those snow covers. The duct for the 2.8i has a built-in water separator but I don't know how it works exactly.

Donaldson air cleaner tech data sheet: http://www.emea.donaldson.com/en/com...ary/049945.pdf

Defender 2.8i air cleaner and duct system:


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