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  #161  
Old June 26th, 2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
.. He didn't want the money... He wanted his car back, you had (and still do) have HIS car..s..
"All the Dude ever wanted was his rug back"
Sorry, this thread needed a little humor
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  #162  
Old June 26th, 2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
"All the Dude ever wanted was his rug back"
Sorry, this thread needed a little humor
"Uh, excuse me, this is - like - a private residence, man."
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  #163  
Old June 26th, 2014, 09:13 AM
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Good job with Webb in the Court. Assume your lawyer has the Judges final order to.
This wasn't a case for mediation but Judge freed up Court time and had the Mediator do the job for him. Ie getting Webb out of the picture officially for ever.
On behalf of the next owner, well done!
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  #164  
Old June 26th, 2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
But you saw the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow and you knew the definite financial gain.... That was your end goal... And to test that theory I will do this.... I will give you $5000 out of my own pocket if you return the vehicle back to Webb...

Your posts are speculative and borderline slanderous.


You have no idea what conversations transpired between the seller and Webb during the five years it sat abandoned on that property. "hey man, come get this shit heap out of my yard before I sell it".

You're making assumptions and creating your own one sided argument.

  #165  
Old June 26th, 2014, 09:49 AM
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That is where you are wrong Shane the car is not his.

Unfortunately I think you are letting emotions cloud what is really going on here.

My uncle had an Early Bronco stored at a friend’s house for several years the friend sold the house and had no place to store the Bronco and had it towed. My uncle does not have a cell phone and does not have a land line the person tried to get ahold of him to tell him to get it out of there but was unable to and had it towed. The tow yard had it for a while and the bills piled up eventually my uncle was back in town and heard that the Bronco had been towed and contacted the tow yard and the bill was more than he could afford and the tow yard was a few weeks away from legally taking ownership of the Bronco.

My mom called me to tell me what was going on and that the tow yard would be taking ownership of it in a few days. I called my uncle and with his ok and a few legal documents I went down and paid the fees and took the Bronco home in my name.

If I had not intervened the Bronco would have become property of the tow yard and likely sold on to the next person just like this case. It sucks but that is the reality my uncle did not take care of it / keep track of it and lost his right to ownership so he no longer owned the Bronco if someone would have purchased it from the tow yard should my uncle have the right to collect the Bronco after it had legally been transferred to a new owner?

If this were any other run of the mill disco no one would bat an eye at the situation and say that it sucks for the person that did not keep track of his personal property. In reality the only person Webb should be mad at is his brother and himself for allowing this to happen.

tohelluride could have made an enormously generous offer and sold it back to Webb out of the kindness of his heart but that is his personal choice and one that each person in his shoes would have to decide on. Personally if the person had sued me I do not know that I would feel inclined to sell it back to them after having to go to court and deal with that hassle.

Just to be clear I do not know tohelluride
  #166  
Old June 26th, 2014, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
That is where you are wrong Shane the car is not his.

Unfortunately I think you are letting emotions cloud what is really going on here.

My uncle had an Early Bronco stored at a friend’s house for several years the friend sold the house and had no place to store the Bronco and had it towed. My uncle does not have a cell phone and does not have a land line the person tried to get ahold of him to tell him to get it out of there but was unable to and had it towed. The tow yard had it for a while and the bills piled up eventually my uncle was back in town and heard that the Bronco had been towed and contacted the tow yard and the bill was more than he could afford and the tow yard was a few weeks away from legally taking ownership of the Bronco.

My mom called me to tell me what was going on and that the tow yard would be taking ownership of it in a few days. I called my uncle and with his ok and a few legal documents I went down and paid the fees and took the Bronco home in my name.

If I had not intervened the Bronco would have become property of the tow yard and likely sold on to the next person just like this case. It sucks but that is the reality my uncle did not take care of it / keep track of it and lost his right to ownership so he no longer owned the Bronco if someone would have purchased it from the tow yard should my uncle have the right to collect the Bronco after it had legally been transferred to a new owner?

If this were any other run of the mill disco no one would bat an eye at the situation and say that it sucks for the person that did not keep track of his personal property. In reality the only person Webb should be mad at is his brother and himself for allowing this to happen.

tohelluride could have made an enormously generous offer and sold it back to Webb out of the kindness of his heart but that is his personal choice and one that each person in his shoes would have to decide on. Personally if the person had sued me I do not know that I would feel inclined to sell it back to them after having to go to court and deal with that hassle.
While I have no dog in this fight, I completely agree with Dave. In addition to his ownership shortcomings, Webb responded to Tohelluride's inquiry by sending out the sheriff instead of approaching it from "the hey man there has been a terrible mistake here and the fellow you bought the truck from had no business selling it. Can I make you financially whole and get my truck back ".
From what I can glean reading this he filed charges instead. Kind of compounded poor pride in ownership with a not so friendly approach (aka dick move).
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  #167  
Old June 26th, 2014, 10:26 AM
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I would wager (and I am not a betting man) that ToHellURide got offers of $5,000 early on and before any of the legal stuff started going on. If he wanted a quick flip, I would think he would have taken advantage of it already.

And storing stuff for people sucks. My dad did it for some friends and family way back when we had some acres. You want to do some work on the yard, but a parts car is in the way. It's one thing when it's yours and you can make the decision to move, scrap, sell it but really gets old when you have to work around things and hear it from your wife or a neighbor how much of an eye sore it is. Not to mention small things like dealing with someone just showing up time to time to work on it or grab stuff from it. I am sure Webb's brother and Bob the miner just got sick of holding on to it while not getting anything in return.

Curious tho Rover Shop - is this really the first time you heard of it? It seems to me it was all over here and ExPo months ago. Maybe if you had stepped in at the beginning it would have a different outcome?
  #168  
Old June 26th, 2014, 10:37 AM
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But I am sure that at that time he was not aware that the owner did not authorize the sale of it... And I do not believe it was abandoned for 5 years nor do I believe that good faith attempts were made by this bob and Webbs brother to contact him of the impending sale... I may be wrong.. And just because one guy sells something doesn't mean that it is rightfully sold... Ever heard of selling stolen property...???
  #169  
Old June 26th, 2014, 11:20 AM
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Rover shop: You should apologize.
Claiming that the truck was not properly sold you are wrong.
The legality of the sale has already been proven in a court of law.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
  #170  
Old June 26th, 2014, 11:59 AM
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Speaking of - Shayne, did you ever track down the original owners from Australia to see if this Puma was stolen or not? I think most of us have had a cheap carrot waved in our faces at some point in our lives and pounced on the opportunity without knowing which vegetable patch it may have come from. From what I've seen, Tohelluride purchased what appeared to be a smoking deal with little to no information as to where it came from (same can be said for the Puma below), and once he hit the forums he discovered that the truck was very well known and was fed information and leads over time which he followed - some resulted in positive outcomes and others did not.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=42902
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  #171  
Old June 26th, 2014, 12:24 PM
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Webb Arnold's story

It's time to hear Webb's side of the story. He gave me permission to post our email conversations where he tells the truth of what happened. Even the judge recognized that Webb was getting screwed because of the way the law is written.

12/24/2013

Hello Brenton,
Here is the story; Land Rover sold me the 1993 CT Discovery as a thank you for training the US teams for all of those years. Yes, it was in bad shape as it actually blew over on I-70 on the way to the New York Auto Show. I didn't have the funds to repair the body to new, but cared for it's mechanical needs. We used it for years as a snow plow and for training Camel Trophy Teams.

I had the CT Discovery at my brother's farm as he was using it to pull a small disk plow in his horse arena. I didn't need it, as I was building a house at the time. A friend of his asked to borrow it, to use at a local mud bog. My brother allowed this, in exchange for the repair of the ignition switch. Unannounced to me, it sat at this guys place for months.

Without permission from myself or my brother, this now ex-friend of my brothers sold the CT discovery on Craig's list. Brent was at the guys place within 12 hours of it appearing for sale, because he knew what a deal it was for a special vehicle. Brent did in fact purchase the CT Discovery from ex-friend. At this point Brent was a victim. Brent then forged a bill of sale from me to the ex-friend, which was dated 2006, even before we had loaned my brother the discovery! Brent was informed by a Mesa County Sheriff deputy and myself that the vehicle was in fact stolen, to which he replied, "Tough luck, it is mine now."

Brent's forgery and then perjury on the stand this last week, verified that he was no longer a victim. He stated under oath that a Camel Trophy Discovery was worth no more than a "dime a dozen Discovery." I certainly no longer consider him a victim.

I am just trying to recover my Camel car... My son, that was involved growing up very involved in the Team training every year wanted it to stay in the family.

One thing that might help is, a real world +- value of a The Camel Trophy Discovery the winning car for the 1993 Camel Trophy. This is so rare a car that worth is very hard to determine. The guys with in Land Rover Club's are the only people that would have an idea of its value.

Thank You for Your help,
Webb Arnold
Team USA Camel Trophy 1991

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3/27/2014

I send a link about Brent's story to Webb, posted on the CTOC.

http://forum.cameltrophy.co.uk/Forum...?topic=3184.60

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello Brenton

I am unable to see the post.
But the way Colorado law is, the only person Ican go after is the clown that sold it. He is what lawyers call judgement proof.
He has nothing and does not work so he will never have anything.
So Brent in his lies in court forged docs, is going to keep the car we tried to purchase the car back he said hell no.
some of this i believe comes from the attention he has gotten from the Land Rover Post. He has never had any attention
of any kind he is a real dweeb. The posts have put him on a pedestal that he has never had, and does not want to fall off.
He is part of an illegal sale of a Land Rover, Colorado laws how ever messed up let him keep the car, not to do what the right thing
is. As long as the Land Rover community keeps telling him he did a good thing, he will continue doing the wrong.

If you are ever in the area give me a call would be nice to meet.
Please excuses my bitterness.

Webb Arnol

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since he didn't have access to the CTOC forum section, I send Webb the post with Brent's side of the story.

Brenton

He has some of the facts correct. But the Car was never given or abandon. There was forgery he never denied it, the seller did.
The part on the Lawyer he is correct, if you are corrupt the get a corrupt lawyer. For the Paper work we kept a faxed copy of Land Rovers invoice
to me in the car for prof of ownership. I have the original and will always own this unit despite corruption with in our system.
I have spoke with a attorney on the matter, if I go on a open forum and tell the truth on this matter I will be open for a more
corruption within the system. I only can hope that some day what goes around comes around.

Webb
  #172  
Old June 26th, 2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
Your posts are speculative and borderline slanderous. You have no idea what conversations transpired between the seller and Webb during the five years it sat abandoned on that property. "hey man, come get this shit heap out of my yard before I sell it". You're making assumptions and creating your own one sided argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
That is where you are wrong Shane the car is not his. Unfortunately I think you are letting emotions cloud what is really going on here. My uncle had an Early Bronco stored at a friend’s house for several years the friend sold the house and had no place to store the Bronco and had it towed. My uncle does not have a cell phone and does not have a land line the person tried to get ahold of him to tell him to get it out of there but was unable to and had it towed. The tow yard had it for a while and the bills piled up eventually my uncle was back in town and heard that the Bronco had been towed and contacted the tow yard and the bill was more than he could afford and the tow yard was a few weeks away from legally taking ownership of the Bronco. My mom called me to tell me what was going on and that the tow yard would be taking ownership of it in a few days. I called my uncle and with his ok and a few legal documents I went down and paid the fees and took the Bronco home in my name. If I had not intervened the Bronco would have become property of the tow yard and likely sold on to the next person just like this case. It sucks but that is the reality my uncle did not take care of it / keep track of it and lost his right to ownership so he no longer owned the Bronco if someone would have purchased it from the tow yard should my uncle have the right to collect the Bronco after it had legally been transferred to a new owner? If this were any other run of the mill disco no one would bat an eye at the situation and say that it sucks for the person that did not keep track of his personal property. In reality the only person Webb should be mad at is his brother and himself for allowing this to happen. tohelluride could have made an enormously generous offer and sold it back to Webb out of the kindness of his heart but that is his personal choice and one that each person in his shoes would have to decide on. Personally if the person had sued me I do not know that I would feel inclined to sell it back to them after having to go to court and deal with that hassle. Just to be clear I do not know tohelluride
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
While I have no dog in this fight, I completely agree with Dave. In addition to his ownership shortcomings, Webb responded to Tohelluride's inquiry by sending out the sheriff instead of approaching it from "the hey man there has been a terrible mistake here and the fellow you bought the truck from had no business selling it. Can I make you financially whole and get my truck back ". From what I can glean reading this he filed charges instead. Kind of compounded poor pride in ownership with a not so friendly approach (aka dick move).
I am in full agreement with all of the posts above.

Shayne, this is obviously a very emotional issue for you, and I am afraid that it is preventing you from being impartial and objective with regards to the facts and circumstances. You keep referencing what you would IF someone did the same thing to you and one of your Camels. This should go without saying but, this isn't your Camel.

I would sincerely urge you to consider retracting some of your earlier statements and letting this issue go. This is friendly advice from a fellow rover community member. It is possible that you may be succepting yourself to potential liability for making public statements without having substantiated evidence. Honestly, you are not helping anyone at this point by keeping this up.

P.S.- Jackie, you are correct. I am an attorney by profession.
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  #173  
Old June 26th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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And josh... No, I never bought the puma because I could never substantiate the owners or the validity of the person selling it...

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 12:58 PM ------

And these accounts by Webb are the sides of the story that I have been referencing.. It was not my place to post his letters but now that it has been posted we all know both sides of the story...and I stand by my statements and slander can't be that when it is fact... I have the power of free speech and my ability to express my opinions...especially when backed up by information I was privy to that others weren't...
  #174  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
I am in full agreement with all of the posts above.

Shayne, this is obviously a very emotional issue for you, and I am afraid that it is preventing you from being impartial and objective with regards to the facts and circumstances. You keep referencing what you would IF someone did the same thing to you and one of your Camels. This should go without saying but, this isn't your Camel.

I would sincerely urge you to consider retracting some of your earlier statements and letting this issue go. This is friendly advice from a fellow rover community member. It is possible that you may be succepting yourself to potential liability for making public statements without having substantiated evidence. Honestly, you are not helping anyone at this point by keeping this up.

P.S.- Jackie, you are correct. I am an attorney by profession.
I have no dog in this fight either, but why are you threatening Shayne and trying to strong-arm him to retract his personal "opinions" and telling him he could be party to a lawsuit for making public statements? Sort of a douche move, and that word "douche" is just my opinion as well. But I believe the majority of people on this board would rather have the ability of free speech to air their opinions, rather than be intimidated with the above.

If the owners of the forum decide they need someone to police us around here, I'm sure they'll contact you and let you know. Until then, my opinion is to leave the First Amendment alone.
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  #175  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco2Guy View Post
It's time to hear Webb's side of the story. He gave me permission to post our email conversations where he tells the truth of what happened. Even the judge recognized that Webb was getting screwed because of the way the law is written.

12/24/2013

Hello Brenton,
Here is the story; Land Rover sold me the 1993 CT Discovery as a thank you for training the US teams for all of those years. Yes, it was in bad shape as it actually blew over on I-70 on the way to the New York Auto Show. I didn't have the funds to repair the body to new, but cared for it's mechanical needs. We used it for years as a snow plow and for training Camel Trophy Teams.

I had the CT Discovery at my brother's farm as he was using it to pull a small disk plow in his horse arena. I didn't need it, as I was building a house at the time. A friend of his asked to borrow it, to use at a local mud bog. My brother allowed this, in exchange for the repair of the ignition switch. Unannounced to me, it sat at this guys place for months.

Without permission from myself or my brother, this now ex-friend of my brothers sold the CT discovery on Craig's list. Brent was at the guys place within 12 hours of it appearing for sale, because he knew what a deal it was for a special vehicle. Brent did in fact purchase the CT Discovery from ex-friend. At this point Brent was a victim. Brent then forged a bill of sale from me to the ex-friend, which was dated 2006, even before we had loaned my brother the discovery! Brent was informed by a Mesa County Sheriff deputy and myself that the vehicle was in fact stolen, to which he replied, "Tough luck, it is mine now."

Brent's forgery and then perjury on the stand this last week, verified that he was no longer a victim. He stated under oath that a Camel Trophy Discovery was worth no more than a "dime a dozen Discovery." I certainly no longer consider him a victim.

I am just trying to recover my Camel car... My son, that was involved growing up very involved in the Team training every year wanted it to stay in the family.

One thing that might help is, a real world +- value of a The Camel Trophy Discovery the winning car for the 1993 Camel Trophy. This is so rare a car that worth is very hard to determine. The guys with in Land Rover Club's are the only people that would have an idea of its value.

Thank You for Your help,
Webb Arnold
Team USA Camel Trophy 1991

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3/27/2014

I send a link about Brent's story to Webb, posted on the CTOC.

http://forum.cameltrophy.co.uk/Forum...?topic=3184.60

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello Brenton

I am unable to see the post.
But the way Colorado law is, the only person Ican go after is the clown that sold it. He is what lawyers call judgement proof.
He has nothing and does not work so he will never have anything.
So Brent in his lies in court forged docs, is going to keep the car we tried to purchase the car back he said hell no.
some of this i believe comes from the attention he has gotten from the Land Rover Post. He has never had any attention
of any kind he is a real dweeb. The posts have put him on a pedestal that he has never had, and does not want to fall off.
He is part of an illegal sale of a Land Rover, Colorado laws how ever messed up let him keep the car, not to do what the right thing
is. As long as the Land Rover community keeps telling him he did a good thing, he will continue doing the wrong.

If you are ever in the area give me a call would be nice to meet.
Please excuses my bitterness.

Webb Arnol

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since he didn't have access to the CTOC forum section, I send Webb the post with Brent's side of the story.

Brenton

He has some of the facts correct. But the Car was never given or abandon. There was forgery he never denied it, the seller did.
The part on the Lawyer he is correct, if you are corrupt the get a corrupt lawyer. For the Paper work we kept a faxed copy of Land Rovers invoice
to me in the car for prof of ownership. I have the original and will always own this unit despite corruption with in our system.
I have spoke with a attorney on the matter, if I go on a open forum and tell the truth on this matter I will be open for a more
corruption within the system. I only can hope that some day what goes around comes around.

Webb
The only thing of any value in all of that is the supposedly forged Bill of Sale. And on this we're supposed to believe the ex-friend, who sold a vehicle he didn't own, that he didn't forge it but Tohelluride did? Its just pointless finger pointing as far as I'm concerned.
If it was such a valuable vehicle as Mr Webb says the maybe he shouldn't have treated it like a farm animal.
  #176  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:26 PM
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This has become a Festivus episode. We have entered the 'Airing of Grievances' stage. Let me know when and where the 'Feats of Strength' portion will take place. I am looking for a good arm wrestling match.
  #177  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
This has become a Festivus episode. We have entered the 'Airing of Grievances' stage. Let me know when and where the 'Feats of Strength' portion will take place. I am looking for a good arm wrestling match.
'Dems fighting words ! Come to HH and we can figure out who the TRUE 9th-grade lunchroom champion is!
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  #178  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:43 PM
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I just want to commend everyone for keeping this all out of the official for sale vehicle thread.
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  #179  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:46 PM
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Since he posted this on expo and not in here, I'll add his response -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tohelluride View Post
It is true. I saw a diesel that was worth money, I still thought it was a fake CT disco or something. I didn't think it was really worth that much. I had a couple of offers, if it was the Real Winning truck, but at that time I did not know for sure if it was real. I was wondering if it was, because then I could make some money and pursue missing parts. So I did my research and found Webb through Tom Collins. When I called, he said it was stolen. It was NOT reported stolen on the Colorado vin check before I purchased the vehicle. I also received what looked to be real documents, unaltered. Then he called the sheriff and said it was stolen. But Webb had not mentioned that I had documents. Then when he received my documents, he thought it could be a forgery. The Sherriff was no expert on forgery and did not let this go through due process, which is illegal. I protect my right.

The whole part of "Me" forging documents is false and straight slander, and he has zero proof of that. My girlfriend was present when I received the documents/vehicle from Bob and testified on stand. Also, Webb claimed my documents were real in court And presented no evidence to back up this "Original Document", actually ZERO evidence at all. Not only that, there is the sheriffs report, that is open to public if requested, that sates that webb's brother admitted to trying to sell it with Bob. Point the finger all you want, the brother is not innocent.



Either way, it is still legal for sale.


Also: Dweeb, lol? Really.... He is to the point of name calling.....
  #180  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:49 PM
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Willh
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Will Hedrick
Use to own NAS #96, #1778, & #1008
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wake Forest, NC, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
I have no dog in this fight either, but why are you threatening Shayne and trying to strong-arm him to retract his personal "opinions" and telling him he could be party to a lawsuit for making public statements? Sort of a douche move, and that word "douche" is just my opinion as well. But I believe the majority of people on this board would rather have the ability of free speech to air their opinions, rather than be intimidated with the above. If the owners of the forum decide they need someone to police us around here, I'm sure they'll contact you and let you know. Until then, my opinion is to leave the First Amendment alone.
First, I am not "threatening" Shayne, nor am I trying to "strong-arm" him into doing anything. Believe it or not, I'm actually trying to help him. It was sincere and friendly advice. As stated previously, I take no offense to his comments towards those, like myself, in the legal profession.

Shayne is more than free to share his personal opinion in whatever matters he so chooses, but the First Amendment rights you now so proudly advocate for only serve to protect you, he, and I from government action (i.e., police action). The first amendment does nothing to protect you, he, or I from private party action (the very thing I am suggesting he should be careful to protect himself from).

And, just to be perfectly clear in light of your confusion, I am not the private party that I would be worried about if I were Shayne. Again, I have nothing more than a passing interest here and I have no such intentions.

Now in light of my statement, does this make things more clear for you? Or, would you prefer to continue in your spirited and less than gentlemanly game of "name calling"?
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