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  #281  
Old June 28th, 2014, 01:31 AM
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My #1 all time favorite movie. Note my avatar and name.
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  #282  
Old June 28th, 2014, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Z.G View Post

Unless LRNA was breaking the law(with their legal team I doubt they would), this is pretty solid stuff.
The bill of sale that may need to be called into question is the bill of sale allegedly recorded in 2006 between Webb and Bob(Craigslist seller). Webb claims this transaction never took place and in fact the truck was still in his possession. Seller(tohelluride) claims the document is legit and the court agreed with him. Webb claims the document is a forgery. Either Webb or the seller may not be being totally honest. What has divided this community is that they both seem like really good guys and its hard to believe that either one of them could be lying. Another scenario, perhaps neither one of them is lying and Bob is in fact the one who forged the bill of sale.

The only reason the LRNA to Webb bill of sale maybe an issue is, IF(big if) the truck was imported as a permanent show and display vehicle, and IF the laws today are the same as they were back then, then...Webb and LRNA would have been required per the import rules(as they are written today) to notify the NHTSA/DOT of the sale and reapply for a new S&D permit in Webb's name. This is how LRNA could still be not only responsible for the vehicle but also...the current owner.
  #283  
Old June 28th, 2014, 06:07 AM
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NavyDevilDoc is pretty good with Guvment info searches. Im starting to think this truck is like that Necklace Bobby found. -Jeff
Haha - but with the page count, it is sounding more like a Lord of the Ring saga.
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  #284  
Old June 28th, 2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
I mean, it looks like a bill of sale to me... Vermont would let me use to it register a vehicle.
Yes, indeed it does to me as well. This document is what I referred to earlier.

However, it does not look like any lawyer or legal team wrote this. If LRNA conveys any asset, I would imagine that it would be policy/customary to run it through "legal", correct? Any company would do they same. So then why does it look like a layperson wrote the document?
Then again, you never know. Maybe some executive took it upon himself and broke policy?
Just saying that if I had in house counsel at my disposal, I'd have them write the Bill of Sale, and it certainly would look and read more "lawyerly" than that. Not saying that that is not a legal bill of sale, just that it's LRNA we are talking about. The same folks who can draft a pretty ominous and convincing coast & desist order!

Starting to look more and more suspect to me, starting waaay back before ToHellurides involvement.
  #285  
Old June 28th, 2014, 09:01 AM
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shayne young
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And I'm not understanding the dates on the top left corner of the doc... Why is one of the dates June 15 ... 2 weeks before signing it..??? And I can agree on their legal team lettering... From lots of experience having received them..lol...

------ Follow up post added June 28th, 2014 09:07 AM ------

I guess Tom Collins could shed some light on it... But I think anyone concerned now will likely not say too much until it comes to court.. I guess tohellurides hasn't chimed in since Webbs side of the story came out... If bob the miner followed correct procedure I'm guessing there should have been a legal notice printed in his local newspaper... Whatever that is .. For how long..??.. No legal notice.. No abandonment clause... HAD Webb hired a lawyer I'm sure this might have been checked and picked apart and we wouldn't be having this lonnnnng thread... Even any typos in the ad with the vin may void it...
  #286  
Old June 28th, 2014, 09:19 AM
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That's a kind of elaborate receipt to be falsely writing..with Tim Collins fax number etc..and I fail to see how writing that would benefit bob or tohellurides cause..especially since it's to Webb... I'd be more inclined to wanna see the trail of legal paperwork for ownership to Bob the miner and then to tohellurides.. The one here is more damning to tohellurides cause than good...the one Webb mentions in his side is supposedly dated 2006???
  #287  
Old June 28th, 2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
That's a kind of elaborate receipt to be falsely writing..with Tim Collins fax number etc..and I fail to see how writing that would benefit bob or tohellurides cause..especially since it's to Webb... I'd be more inclined to wanna see the trail of legal paperwork for ownership to Bob the miner and then to tohellurides.. The one here is more damning to tohellurides cause than good...the one Webb mentions in his side is supposedly dated 2006???
Maybe that's why Webb showed up with out an attorney...he probably thought this was going to be an open and shut case. Unfortunately for him, allegedly, he didn't know about the 2006 bill of sale.
  #288  
Old June 28th, 2014, 10:09 AM
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And yep... That's what I figured too..
  #289  
Old June 28th, 2014, 10:16 AM
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Faxes are easy to fake.
. Note total lack of letterhead.
A bill of sale would have LRNA letterhead on it from the original sender. It's totally lacking that.
Fax tell tales are even easier to fake. .
This document, on its own, has no proven validity in the public domain or a court of law.
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  #290  
Old June 28th, 2014, 11:35 AM
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Surprised at the number of posts here sounding the spoiled kid in the sandbox pouting 'finders keepers, losers weepers.'
At the end of the day, you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are doing the right thing. Sad that much of our society is okay hiding behind BS technicalities.
  #291  
Old June 28th, 2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX6RCROL View Post
Maybe that's why Webb showed up with out an attorney...he probably thought this was going to be an open and shut case. Unfortunately for him, allegedly, he didn't know about the 2006 bill of sale.
Why anyone would not seek legal help when being brought into to court is beyond reason. Especially in this case when the truck was reported as stolen and the local sheriff didn't pursue the case. It wouldn't have gotten that far if it was a open and shut case…


As for doing the right thing, if thought you weren't in the wrong, what would you do?
  #292  
Old June 28th, 2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
As for doing the right thing, if thought you weren't in the wrong, what would you do?
Exactly. Right and wrong is always up for debate. In this case, right is what the initial court said it was. Until someone steps up and challenges that, that is the way it is going to stay.
  #293  
Old June 28th, 2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
As for doing the right thing, if thought you weren't in the wrong, what would you do?
Not implying the court ruled incorrectly. There are loopholes and judgments based on technicalities everyday. Who am I (or anyone here) to say otherwise? To answer your question, once Webb said there has been a mistake, here is the situation and Bob did not have the right to sell, I'd see that Webb got the truck back and that I was not out of pocket. I'd also sleep soundly knowing that was the right thing to do.
But I understand some are out to make the quick buck, but at the expense of others is where we should draw the line. People have different core values... to each his own. Here was have someone knowing exactly what he purchased and a good estimate of its value on the day he purchased it. Kudos to him. Congrats on the purchase. Then within a few days boasts that yes he most likely will flip it and $10,000 would just cover the deposit. All the more power to him. Nice fine, nice reward. All that is fine provided he did know know and give consideration to Webb's side of the story. Once that became clear, thinking many would have handled this differently.
  #294  
Old June 28th, 2014, 01:04 PM
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"One thing I don't understand is why everyone is upset that he used the truck as a snow plow and farm tool. That is the very essence of what Land Rovers were built for in the first place. It had done its job training CT participants and was still being used for work. Did it have to be fully restored for that? What would the truck have to be used for, jungle trips only? "

The reason why is because it is a piece of US motor sports history and should be treated like that. Either preserved in its original state or restored to CT spec.
  #295  
Old June 28th, 2014, 03:40 PM
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Bullshit.. I built my camel truck into a long distance expedition vehicle, as have many others before me.. And still do... How is sitting in a museum only being driven on sunny days to a local car show any kind of way for a camel vehicle... Heck, I pulled a tree stump out with mine and I've also winched camel trophy trucks across lakes in exhibits.. They are meant to be used.... Not turned into trailer queens wrapped in cotton wool.. They are some of the toughest trucks out there and a snow plow is nothing for them... And it may not have been for 10 foot snow drifts.. It may have been light powder.. Who knows..point is..it's his truck as it's not as if it was being used as a demolition derby car...(it had already done that..lol.) you can bet your bottom dollar if I lived in an area where it snowed and I needed a light duty plow that I wouldn't be picking up yet another truck just for that when ct bumpers already have great mounting points for one.. Bottom line is... It was sold WITHOUT the owners permission, stolen in the truest sense of the word..and it's a travesty of justice that slimeballs with no morals or respect for other peoples property find loopholes predicated on false documentation and brag about screwing someone out of their truck... Who gives a damn if he said someone lived in Mesa county when they didn't... And if that was his biggest mistake in the paperwork in a civil suit big whoop, he probably misspelt a word or two also.. Most Americans do..)
  #296  
Old June 28th, 2014, 04:11 PM
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In the world of fairytales and pixy dust, the truck would be given back and all then everyone could sing kumbaya while rigging a 1000' of rope building a barrel bridge…BUT

If it was stolen why didn't the sheriff arrest and prosecute the guy who stole it, then sold it? Seriously, all other bullshit aside it just seems that there are pieces to this puzzle missing when looking at both sides. Perjury, slander and lying in a court of law are serious allegations with serious repercussions. You said you'd help, so work with Webb and appeal the decision. Bob capitalized on a opportunity and slandering him makes you look like a whiny bitch. You've made some strong statements with some seemingly strong evidence that may reverse the ruling. But your fighting it on a couple of web forums and that will accomplish nothing. Fight it court...
  #297  
Old June 28th, 2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post

Why anyone would not seek legal help when being brought into to court is beyond reason. Especially in this case when the truck was reported as stolen and the local sheriff didn't pursue the case. It wouldn't have gotten that far if it was a open and shut case…

As for doing the right thing, if thought you weren't in the wrong, what would you do?
Webb did not think he needed an attorney. Webb thinks Tohelluride lied on the stand and forged a bill of sale in order to win in court.

If however Bob forged the 06' bill of sale or Webb is lying, then Tohelluride is certainly a victim.
  #298  
Old June 28th, 2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX6RCROL View Post
Webb did not think he needed an attorney.
Seriously though, who goes to any level of court higher than a traffic ticket without a lawyer?
  #299  
Old June 28th, 2014, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
Seriously though, who goes to any level of court higher than a traffic ticket without a lawyer?
Concur. Kinda like saying if you expect a fair fight, you aren't prepared enough.
  #300  
Old June 29th, 2014, 12:55 PM
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Concur. Kinda like saying if you expect a fair fight, you aren't prepared enough.
It is money, property, and the law. Only an idiot, no offense to Webb, would not bring a lawyer to court
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