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  #181  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:52 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Interesting to see how convoluted this is…

I ask the same question as Brett, if this was such a prized possession to Webb, why was it not better cared for? Seems that the once it was realized that money could be made, things changed.
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  #182  
Old June 26th, 2014, 01:59 PM
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shayne young
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No... It seems that once Webb was made aware that his vehicle had been sold without his consent..(after the sale had already taken place) Webb did what he needed to do, track down his vehicle and have the authorities informed that the vehicle was sold or removed from his possession without his permission, if that can't be labeled as stolen I don't know what is... It's. Not about how much the vehicle is worth.. It can't be replaced... If it was just about the money Webb would have sold it years ago...

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 02:06 PM ------

And Will.. Thank you for your advice and I don't feel threatened or anything of the such, I am aware that it is just what it is.. Friendly advice.. I have said what I have said and I stand behind what I have said...statement of fact cannot be considered slander.. And I have merely stated facts... If some douche wants to come after me for slander that is what they are going to do... And there is probably not much I can do about it.... Good luck proving who is actually writing this, nobody has seen who is typing this..and these words cannot be directly linked to me...or him... Or whatever..For all anyone knows my laptop was stolen and it's someone else who is ghost writing these words... Has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt... But regardless... I/he have said nothing that can be considered slanderous..oh.. And poop, I had forgotten about the sales thread...
  #183  
Old June 26th, 2014, 02:18 PM
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This thread has been gentlemanly to a point.
I understand that Shayne speaks from an emotional standpoint and he should be able to speak his mind. Webb's perspective was an interesting viewpoint and the circumstances frankly suck for him.
If there was fairness and equity in this world, the ex-friend should be forced to do community service or pay restitution, but the situation played out in court differently.
While we may not like or respect the "OJ verdict" it was the decision of the court and to beat up on Tohelluride after the fact is meaningless and sorta spiteful.

For me as a casual observer with no skin in the game this serves a a very good "case study" to be learned from. Let's keep it to that rather than a court of public opinion as to the "character" of Tohelluride, Webb et-al.
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  #184  
Old June 26th, 2014, 02:29 PM
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It certainly makes for an interesting read while you are at the airport waiting for your flight!!
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  #185  
Old June 26th, 2014, 02:30 PM
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Personally I appreciate seeing Shayne's responses to this matter. The new information from Webb and others involved certainly gives another perspective.

The outcome of the ownership of this vehicle is not really final in my opinion.

Weather Tohelluride or the goat farmer forged documents to "aid" in the transfer of this property does not really matter. If Webb did not sign a bill of sale of the property to his brother or the goat farmer then it may not have legally sold. The vehicle was never properly processed with a storage lien by the goat farmer to be sold. I think this may later be contested in a court of law. Therefore I would not be interested in purchasing said vehicle myself and would not recommend for anyone else to do so.

LRNA should step in and purchase this vehicle back and create a museum for it to be displayed at an established LR dealership in CO for all of us to enjoy. The facts I see presented do show a lack of responsibility by Webb. But I agree that the current person in possesion of the Camel Trophy Land Rover Discovery, may not be its bona fide' owner based on information provided to us here.

Best thing that could happen is that LRNA buy this on ebay and give Tohelluride his pound of flesh one year later, then get this piece of history off the market.
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  #186  
Old June 26th, 2014, 02:40 PM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco2Guy View Post
It's time to hear Webb's side of the story. He gave me permission to post our email conversations where he tells the truth of what happened.
Thanks for the email thread (although I was getting a little confused to Brenton/Brent)

Questions---
- why didn't Webb go online and post his story at the beginning? A post on here would have gone pretty far I believe.
- curious as to why he think ToHellURide is doing it just for internet stardom. Realizing he stumbled upon something more valuable but getting props on a few online forums?
- I still don't understand why didn't Webb hire a lawyer? But now talks of getting one? From ToHellURides post it sounded like that hurt him the most.
  #187  
Old June 26th, 2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy View Post
LRNA should step in and purchase this vehicle back and create a museum for it to be displayed at an established LR dealership in CO for all of us to enjoy. The facts I see presented do show a lack of responsibility by Webb. But I agree that the current person in possesion of the Camel Trophy Land Rover Discovery, may not be its bona fide' owner based on information provided to us here. Best thing that could happen is that LRNA buy this on ebay and give Tohelluride his pound of flesh one year later, then get this piece of history off the market.
This.

Leave this vehicle as is and for others to learn about it and the CT events. Who is to say the new owner won't restore it or at least "fix" the dents.
  #188  
Old June 26th, 2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
No... It seems that once Webb was made aware that his vehicle had been sold without his consent..(after the sale had already taken place) Webb did what he needed to do, track down his vehicle and have the authorities informed that the vehicle was sold or removed from his possession without his permission, if that can't be labeled as stolen I don't know what is... It's. Not about how much the vehicle is worth.. It can't be replaced... If it was just about the money Webb would have sold it years ago...

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 02:06 PM ------

And Will.. Thank you for your advice and I don't feel threatened or anything of the such, I am aware that it is just what it is.. Friendly advice.. I have said what I have said and I stand behind what I have said...statement of fact cannot be considered slander.. And I have merely stated facts... If some douche wants to come after me for slander that is what they are going to do... And there is probably not much I can do about it.... Good luck proving who is actually writing this, nobody has seen who is typing this..and these words cannot be directly linked to me...or him... Or whatever..For all anyone knows my laptop was stolen and it's someone else who is ghost writing these words... Has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt... But regardless... I/he have said nothing that can be considered slanderous..oh.. And poop, I had forgotten about the sales thread...


Shayne,

Just catching up on this Camel saga. If you really want to help Webb this information may be useful. Before I decided to leave my Camel in Africa, I was going to import it under the temporary or permanent show and display exemption permit. Customs has both options. I just went through this a couple months ago and I was told that if a vehicle were brought in under either exemption, under no circumstances could the vehicle ever be sold by the person who was originally granted the exemption. If such a show and display exemption document actually exist for the Camel, by law, or at least by my understanding of the law, the truck must remain in the original owners possession and be made available at all times for inspection. Presumably that owner would be LRNA.

These guys are the gate keepers that issue show and display permits. Tread forward lightly...I would hate to see the truck confiscated and destroyed due to a breach of the original owners import permit agreement, if in fact that is how the truck was brought into the country.

Coleman.Sachs@dot.gov
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George.Stevens@dot.gov

One Life, Live It.

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  #189  
Old June 26th, 2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
Thanks for the email thread (although I was getting a little confused to Brenton/Brent)

Questions---
- why didn't Webb go online and post his story at the beginning? A post on here would have gone pretty far I believe.
- curious as to why he think ToHellURide is doing it just for internet stardom. Realizing he stumbled upon something more valuable but getting props on a few online forums?
- I still don't understand why didn't Webb hire a lawyer? But now talks of getting one? From ToHellURides post it sounded like that hurt him the most.
Yes, please don't confuse Brenton (Disco2Guy) with Brent (ToHelluRide). I never go by the name Brent just to be clear.

Webb isn't on the forums. He works very long shifts and sleeps while the rig is broken down and moved to the next site. I'm going to visit him later this year once work calms down for him.

He's upset and doesn't care for Brent's attitude and personality. Webb's wife wasn't happy when Brent said it was an honor to meet him and shook his hand in court. She doesn't care for him either.

Money. The same reason (as he stated) that he couldn't repair the truck from falling off the transport truck to NYC. Some people have their lawyer on speed dial. Webb isn't one of those people.

The biggest issue in all of this is the way the laws are written for these situations. When the judge admits that you're getting screwed over, and has to side with other party, there is a major problem with the system. But, that seems to be the case in many aspects of the judicial system and government as a whole.
  #190  
Old June 26th, 2014, 03:54 PM
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Matthew Hedrick
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I was wrong. You can sell the car but, not easily.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/impo...howDisplay.pdf

"Not sell, lease, or transfer custody of the vehicle unless I have received written permission from NHTSA. If I wish to sell or transfer permanent custody of the vehicle to another person, I understand that I cannot sell or transfer the vehicle unless and until that person has applied for and obtained a new show/display exemption from NHTSA."

Find the show and display permit, resolve the issue.

Matthew
  #191  
Old June 26th, 2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco2Guy View Post
Yes, please don't confuse Brenton (Disco2Guy) with Brent (ToHelluRide). I never go by the name Brent just to be clear. Webb isn't on the forums. He works very long shifts and sleeps while the rig is broken down and moved to the next site. I'm going to visit him later this year once work calms down for him. He's upset and doesn't care for Brent's attitude and personality. Webb's wife wasn't happy when Brent said it was an honor to meet him and shook his hand in court. She doesn't care for him either. Money. The same reason (as he stated) that he couldn't repair the truck from falling off the transport truck to NYC. Some people have their lawyer on speed dial. Webb isn't one of those people. The biggest issue in all of this is the way the laws are written for these situations. When the judge admits that you're getting screwed over, and has to side with other party, there is a major problem with the system. But, that seems to be the case in many aspects of the judicial system and government as a whole.
I understand the forum thing. I go days without being on a computer. Actually typing this on my phone in between welds on a bulkhead in high 80 weather (wtf am I thinking?)

But wish Webb reached out to someone sooner. At least ask a friend to help look into it post online for some help. It is a small group and I think one of us would have helped either party to have a fair deal. Not sure if you know the Kent story but D90 raised a few G's for him and others (I believe) are doing things in person to help his issue. Not to mention that there has been legal advise given pro bono here as well.

And sounds like ToHellURide isn't trying to eff Webb. Why would he reach out to him in the first place and then say "honor to meet" you at court?
  #192  
Old June 26th, 2014, 04:48 PM
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It appears there were several opportunities for the purchaser to do the right thing after being made aware of the situation -- to give Webb the opportunity to get his CT Disco back. Obviously Webb would first need to cover the purchaser for his time and actual expenses. My guess he would have been glad to do just that.
  #193  
Old June 26th, 2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I understand the forum thing. I go days without being on a computer. Actually typing this on my phone in between welds on a bulkhead in high 80 weather (wtf am I thinking?)

But wish Webb reached out to someone sooner. At least ask a friend to help look into it post online for some help. It is a small group and I think one of us would have helped either party to have a fair deal. Not sure if you know the Kent story but D90 raised a few G's for him and others (I believe) are doing things in person to help his issue. Not to mention that there has been legal advise given pro bono here as well.

And sounds like ToHellURide isn't trying to eff Webb. Why would he reach out to him in the first place and then say "honor to meet" you at court?
I wanted to post something when Webb contacted me last December, but since it was in the court I didn't want to be the one who (potentially) ruined it for him. Webb is a quiet guy and it sounds like he was just overwhelmed by what happened. I feel like I should have done more, but court rooms and CT trucks can be a very slippery slope. Everyone I contacted with CT trucks wanted to help, but didn't want any identifiable info getting out, no matter how remote of that occurring. Webb was looking for this info for himself and wouldn't have presented anything without consent from the owner's of the trucks.

Even this morning I could tell in his voice it's still difficult to talk about loosing it. Not only for Webb, but his son (who was there to help with the training in the 90's) who was going to inherit the truck.

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 01:58 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
It appears there were several opportunities for the purchaser to do the right thing after being made aware of the situation -- to give Webb the opportunity to get his CT Disco back. Obviously Webb would first need to cover the purchaser for his time and actual expenses. My guess he would have been glad to do just that.
That's why this is a touchy topic for people like Shayne and myself. Webb made that very offer during the mediation. Brent laughed in his face. That is how he "honors" people and their very unique history to the LR community.
  #194  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:07 PM
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Am I reading this right? Colorado courts consider this vehicle is owned by tohelluride, while NHTSA considers the vehicle titled to someone else until tohelluride applies for the NHTSA?
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  #195  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:18 PM
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This should be researched by LRNA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Am I reading this right? Colorado courts consider this vehicle is owned by tohelluride, while NHTSA considers the vehicle titled to someone else until tohelluride applies for the NHTSA?
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  #196  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy View Post
This should be researched by LRNA.
You do not actually think LRNA is going to want to wade into this pile, do you? If I were them, I would avoid this like the plague. No good can come of this for them.

Colorado says it is not his, some paperwork somewhere says that it is. I am sure that a injunction on the sale of the truck until this is remediated could be had. Original paperwork would be needed though.
  #197  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:30 PM
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Yep.. I guess that's the way it reads... Webb was not allowed to sell the vehicle (which is a moot point as he didn't) unless the new owner had applied for and been granted a show and display permit.. I guess now since the vehicle is quote unquote illegal it now stands to be eligible for confiscation by the NHTSA... And they won't give 2 shits about who's got what receipts... I would be guessing since land rover initially would have been the one who placed the request and probably put a bond in place that they will forfeit.. I'm guessing they will be likely to get involved...

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 05:30 PM ------

I hope..
  #198  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Yep.. I guess that's the way it reads... Webb was not allowed to sell the vehicle (which is a moot point as he didn't) unless the new owner had applied for and been granted a show and display permit.. I guess now since the vehicle is quote unquote illegal it now stands to be eligible for confiscation by the NHTSA... And they won't give 2 shits about who's got what receipts... I would be guessing since land rover initially would have been the one who placed the request and probably put a bond in place that they will forfeit.. I'm guessing they will be likely to get involved...

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2014 05:30 PM ------

I hope..
So, why not reach out to the NHTSA? Is it because the truck will likely disappear if they decide to take action and confiscate? Seems to me like if he was this broken up about it, he would skip all of this forum and court crap and go straight to the people that allowed the truck to be in his possession in the first place, LR and NHTSA. If he is worried about lawyers fees, no one has more money than the Fed...
  #199  
Old June 26th, 2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco2Guy View Post



That's why this is a touchy topic for people like Shayne and myself. Webb made that very offer during the mediation. Brent laughed in his face. That is how he "honors" people and their very unique history to the LR community.

I never even saw Webb during the mediation. He put me through this. And I simply said to the mediator...No. Stop making stuff up. To be honest, I think you are being fed this and manipulating it. Laughed in his face? Seriously, Brenton!?


As for NHTSA.....was this rule in affect when it was originally sold or is that a newer rule? I looking into this, as well.
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  #200  
Old June 26th, 2014, 06:00 PM
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Tohelluride, I'd make sure this Disco is a little hard to find in case someone(aka Webb) wants to repo it!

People do wacky stuff when they start seeing dollar $ign$ !

.
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