1969 IIA - 200TDI Conversion - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:59 AM
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Will
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1969 IIA - 200TDI Conversion

I bought this truck about a year ago, I think............I drove the crap out of it all winter, it was my go to hunting rig. This is probably my favorite truck out of what I own, it is not the nicest, but for whatever reason I find myself drawn to this thing.

Anyway, it has had some issues mechanically and I was staring down a full rebuild of the current 2.25.....or, I could use this as an opportunity to do a conversion. I researched it to death, the only thing that ever gave me pause was whether or not to keep it original. I have a very original IIA that I will never modify, so I said what the hell and went for the conversion.

I have way to much other shit going on and do not have time to try and tackle something like this myself, so I started looking around for a shop. I ended up @ Urban in Atlanta which is pretty close to me.

Some Details of what David is doing:
  • 200TDI Install
  • Bolting to the existing gearbox. We kicked this around a bunch, but decided the existing box is in good shape and to see how long it lasted. When and if it explodes we will swap it then.
  • Full Respray in Limestone
  • The front wings are not original to the truck and the paint does not come close to matching, neither does the tailgate. If it was all original I would likely not paint the truck.
  • Pickup Cab - Keeping it in the pickup configuration, but painting it to match the body.
  • Bedliner - We are going to spray a bedliner in the back.
  • Body Work - The truck is nice and straight, it just has a ton of holes in the bed. These will not be fixed and all the little minor imperfections will not be fixed either. Most of the "character" will remain.
Anyway, that is it in a nutshell.......here are the pictures:


















































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  #2  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 10:38 AM
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Looks like it's off to a good start.
Some of us met David's shop foreman at Overland Expo when he delivered Bill's Sanky.
Very nice guy.

Please don't tell me they are installing the 200TDI without the turbo.
That's like going to the senior prom stag...
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
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  #3  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 10:45 AM
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Kevin C. Doyle
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The expertise required on projects like this continues to amaze me!

Keep sending pictures!
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  #4  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Looks like it's off to a good start.
Some of us met David's shop foreman at Overland Expo when he delivered Bill's Sanky.
Very nice guy.

Please don't tell me they are installing the 200TDI without the turbo.
That's like going to the senior prom stag...
Turbo Included

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Any upgrade to steering or brakes?

-Jeff
Thought about disk brakes, but I really don't mind drum brakes if they are set up right. I am pretty convinced that people that continually complain about Series brakes have never owned a truck that actually has them set up right.

I am also trying to keep the cost within reason and disks are something I can always add later pretty easily.

No power steering......assuming that is what you are asking about.
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  #5  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 06:19 PM
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Jason Lavender
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Subscribed! Would like to do a 200 swap in my IIA at some point, though time is not my friend for the past couple of years and it just keeps "sitting".
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  #6  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
Thought about disk brakes, but I really don't mind drum brakes if they are set up right. I am pretty convinced that people that continually complain about Series brakes have never owned a truck that actually has them set up right.

I am also trying to keep the cost within reason and disks are something I can always add later pretty easily.

No power steering......assuming that is what you are asking about.
Since you already have the brake petal with integrated booster, you could consider an upgrade to the 109 brake setup. I did this routinely for years and it works out very well. Yes you still have drums, but they are larger and provide a better stoping at faster speeds.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #7  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 08:41 PM
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I've toyed with doing this with my IIa for a while. But I decided against it for a few reasons.

One thing you might consider is that from the people I've talked to the 200Tdi, minus the Tdi, is basically a very easy swap. The turbo makes for some funky fit issues, and the original gear box is good with 200di, but the T may produce enough torque that you are shortening the life of the gearbox.

Something to think about, but probably wouldn't keep me from doing the swap at your point in the project. Looks good!
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  #8  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:12 PM
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Will
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Since you already have the brake petal with integrated booster, you could consider an upgrade to the 109 brake setup. I did this routinely for years and it works out very well. Yes you still have drums, but they are larger and provide a better stoping at faster speeds.
Not a bad idea, I think I have a full 109 brake setup...........it's an easy enough swap later on if I'm not happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
I've toyed with doing this with my IIa for a while. But I decided against it for a few reasons.

One thing you might consider is that from the people I've talked to the 200Tdi, minus the Tdi, is basically a very easy swap. The turbo makes for some funky fit issues, and the original gear box is good with 200di, but the T may produce enough torque that you are shortening the life of the gearbox.

Something to think about, but probably wouldn't keep me from doing the swap at your point in the project. Looks good!
I am 100% positive that the turbo will shorten the life of the gearbox unless I baby the thing. I don't have any problem accepting that.

If there was some big money market for used series gearboxes perhaps I'd be more inclined to go ahead and install something else, but unless that market pops up I'm fine seeing how long it lasts. I have talked to several people and read hundreds of posts from folks that have done the conversion. Some have experienced catastrophic failure quickly and some have driven thousands and thousands of miles with no issue. I'll let y'all know!!
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  #9  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Unlike an indirect injection engine that can run fine without a Turbo, a
TURBO Diesel Injected 200 is by design manufactured specifically to have a turbo.
The IP meters fuel based on boost pressure.
The combustion chambers are built into the piston design with the perfectly flat zero tolerance cylinder head in order to function with an injector pop off pressure that can distribute the fuel and burn it under the intake pressure resulting from a spinning turbo.
TDI engines use small turbines that produce boost at idle...
And do you want to know whhyyyy???
Because the engine is built from the drawing board to have turbo boost through all the rpm ranges.
You can get a 200TDI to run without a turbo, but the efficiency of the engine will be worse than bad probably only marginally better over the 2.5 N/A, if better at all.
The 2.5 N/A has a higher compression ratio over the 200TDI.
It would be interesting to run a 200TDI on a dyno with and without the turbo and compare the performance output.

An IDI diesel like the OM617 can run fine and will not suffer as much without a turbo than a TDI engine but won't produce as much power.
The more sophisticated plunger driven OM617 IP has an ALDA that can trim back fuel under conditions of no boost at low RPM and pour it on when boost is pumped in.
The 200 TDI will simply run fuel starved without a turbo no matter what the RPM range.
Turn the fuel up and you'll get lots of unburned fuel if the engine is running without any boost.

Why bother installing a 200TDI without the turbo? Because it's easy?
Does it become a 200DI - T ?
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #10  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Unlike an indirect injection engine that can run fine without a Turbo, a
TURBO Diesel Injected 200 is by design manufactured specifically to have a turbo.
The IP meters fuel based on boost pressure.
The combustion chambers are built into the piston design with the perfectly flat zero tolerance cylinder head.
TDI
See, the Turbo was just meant to be.


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  #11  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:33 PM
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Bill Adams
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I wanna see how they "professionally" fit the intercooler and radiator without hacking tin.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
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  #12  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
I am 100% positive that the turbo will shorten the life of the gearbox unless I baby the thing. I don't have any problem accepting that.

If there was some big money market for used series gearboxes perhaps I'd be more inclined to go ahead and install something else, but unless that market pops up I'm fine seeing how long it lasts. I have talked to several people and read hundreds of posts from folks that have done the conversion. Some have experienced catastrophic failure quickly and some have driven thousands and thousands of miles with no issue. I'll let y'all know!!
Years ago I had a series IIA & III gearbox analyzed by the reliability engineering group on an aviation maintenance project. They reported back that the gearboxes will maintain service up to 190 ft lbs of torque. I made this a performance threshold for the engine conversions I built.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old December 2nd, 2014, 09:50 PM
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Couple of points

1. A 2.25 petrol with a tiny weber carb can break the gearbox too. But nobody suggests tossing them out altogether as a result (except those who want a 5 speed) A series gearbox in good shape can last a long time behind a 200tdi so I agree with trying to make it work. I am, on my tdi series project (long stalled). Plus the 88 will be a rocketship with very little boost so you probably won't need to tune the IP for more power the way the big heavy 110 guys like to.

2. Like RD says...Definitely keep the turbo! not worth all that hassle and expense to then take away the fun part.

3. I have a set of lightly used stage one v8 front brakes. These are the 3" wide 11" diameter front drums that were also used on the 6 cylinder trucks. I also have a set of regular 109 front brakes if you prefer those. (don't know why you would). PM if you are interested in either of those sets.

4. Cool project. I think I recognize that truck from events years back. Wasn't it owned by some older British guy?

5. Good luck and have fun, keep the pictures coming.

6. Dave, where are my door handles?
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  #14  
Old December 3rd, 2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post

3. I have a set of lightly used stage one v8 front brakes. These are the 3" wide 11" diameter front drums that were also used on the 6 cylinder trucks. I also have a set of regular 109 front brakes if you prefer those. (don't know why you would). PM if you are interested in either of those sets.

Thanks for the offer, I will let you know...........I had the Stage One brakes on my Series 1 with the V8 and they worked quite well.



This truck came from out west........California. It was imported by an American that was stationed in Germany in the late sixties. I have pictures of him in the Land Rover Factory picking it up. It has a really cool history and tons of documentation (build sheet, pictures, local newspaper clippings from articles written about the owner and the truck, etc.)
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  #15  
Old December 12th, 2014, 10:57 AM
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Here are a few more pictures taking it apart........shooting for paint next week.











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  #16  
Old December 19th, 2014, 08:54 PM
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More pictures........bulkhead on the passenger side was/is pretty jacked up.......looks like it took a blow from something.

David is operating on it.































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  #17  
Old September 9th, 2015, 09:09 PM
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Well, it's been a while……….that is an understatement.

Anyway, I picked it up today……not really how I envisioned having to get it, but it is what it is.

Not quite sure what my next steps are but I am working on a couple of things. I have got to try and figure out what I actually have in the half dozen or so boxes jammed in my truck.







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  #18  
Old September 9th, 2015, 09:46 PM
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So I have to ask......why is the truck coming home after a year in the shop only to be in pieces in boxes? What the heck happened to your project?
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  #19  
Old September 9th, 2015, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBSurfer View Post
....why is the truck coming home after a year in the shop only to be in pieces in boxes? What the heck happened to your project?
It got "Urbanized"
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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Old September 9th, 2015, 10:14 PM
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Pass the popcorn...
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