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  #21  
Old February 4th, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Brian Kandefer
1957 107 wagon, 94 arles St, 101 FC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2411D90 View Post
True, side impact protection is minimal on a Defender. On the other hand, they're the safest car on the highway in a head-on collision, because 90% of the impact is absorbed by the tow truck.
awesome! LMAO!!
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  #22  
Old February 4th, 2014, 10:56 AM
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Russell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Don't get me wrong ... Slider are better than nothing but aren't the same as a side impact protection in a modern vehicle.
Jason, if you don't mind elaborating, on what basis do you form this opinion?
FMVSS 214 "Side Impact Protection" was amended to assure occupant protection in a 33.5 mph crash. This was phased-in to new vehicles between 94-97.
For most unibody cars, this resulted in updated side and roof sills, improved seat structures/cross-members, addition of a light duty beam in the door panel, and energy absorbing padding in the head area. The A- and B-pillars also provide significant protection.
The Defender essentially has none of these elements protecting the occupant from a side impact. Thinking a loaded up Costco shopping cart rolling down a small hill could penetrate the side of the Defender and result in loss of survivable volume. IMO, they are that bad. However, a quality slider, especially one with additional steel in the form of tree bars, securely tied to the frame will go a long way at meeting (or exceeding) the intent of FMVSS 214 except for additional head protection.
Yes, a slider does not provide the additional occupant protection as torso and head airbags of the newer cars, but it will go a long way in slowing down and reducing the extent of door intrusion and lost of survivable volume for the occupants.
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  #23  
Old February 4th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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Jason England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Jason, if you don't mind elaborating, on what basis do you form this opinion?
FMVSS 214 "Side Impact Protection" was amended to assure occupant protection in a 33.5 mph crash. This was phased-in to new vehicles between 94-97.
For most unibody cars, this resulted in updated side and roof sills, improved seat structures/cross-members, addition of a light duty beam in the door panel, and energy absorbing padding in the head area. The A- and B-pillars also provide significant protection.
The Defender essentially has none of these elements protecting the occupant from a side impact. Thinking a loaded up Costco shopping cart rolling down a small hill could penetrate the side of the Defender and result in loss of survivable volume. IMO, they are that bad. However, a quality slider, especially one with additional steel in the form of tree bars, securely tied to the frame will go a long way at meeting (or exceeding) the intent of FMVSS 214 except for additional head protection.
Yes, a slider does not provide the additional occupant protection as torso and head airbags of the newer cars, but it will go a long way in slowing down and reducing the extent of door intrusion and lost of survivable volume for the occupants.
My opinion is based on the fact that sliders have never been formally tested and the results compared with formal vehicle tests.

My view is that we are comparing conjecture with scientifically performed testing and people reading this website may assume that adding rock sliders will make a defender as safe as a modern car.


Slider may have potential benefits in a side impact

but

Slider != Side impact protection system

I think we agree on the outcome ... I believe minimal benefit until proven ... I guess i'm a glass half full kind of person. Some appear to place a lot of trust in rock sliders.

Bottom line is I drive my car and understand the risks associated. I also want other people to make informed choices about driving these vehicles.
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  #24  
Old February 4th, 2014, 11:59 AM
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I think some of the physics have to do with tightly controlling the rate of deformation. It's the same reason why cars have crumple zones - to reduce the maximum instantaneous G-forces placed on the human body.

In my opinon, a tree slider is "safe" in the sense that it may prevent intrusion. But it is also incredibly rigid, therefore transferring a large amount of impact energy efficiently to the Defender. That would cause the human body to experience injury due to impact against the interior of the Defender as well as the high-G forces imparted.

I personally think the reason the Defender does ok in accidents is largely due to the fact that all other vehicles on the road are designed to absorb as much impact as possible. I guess you could say that the other cars safety systems are saving the occupants of the Defender.
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  #25  
Old February 4th, 2014, 12:10 PM
raysur
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Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
you sure a defender is the right choice????

I don't want to rain on your parade ... but you should know what you are buying.

These trucks have zero side impact protection ... no crumple zones ... no air bags or ABS.

They can be quirky - read unreliable - uncomfortable - hot in summer - cold in winter - leak water into the cabin when it rains and oil / gearbox fluids onto your drive way ...
That is definitely a lot to consider. I really appreciate the honesty. But if the benefits outweigh the problems then we're set.

What are your pros and cons for your Defender?

At the end of the day my wife will make the decision. I would never force a vehicle on her.
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  #26  
Old February 4th, 2014, 12:44 PM
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Bill Adams
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Does she know Portia DeRossi has one?
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  #27  
Old February 4th, 2014, 01:36 PM
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Bill Larson
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That's only because Ellen forced her!!
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  #28  
Old February 4th, 2014, 01:53 PM
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Scott
1997 D90 ST #1444
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When it is your time to go... You're going to go...

Buy the Defender, you only live once. :-)

Maybe with your new insurance, a D90 will be a pre-existing condition.
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  #29  
Old February 4th, 2014, 04:27 PM
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Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Does she know Portia DeRossi has one?
Nope. Even I had to look that up.

Is that a good thing or bad thing?
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  #30  
Old February 5th, 2014, 08:33 PM
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Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I personally think the reason the Defender does ok in accidents is largely due to the fact that all other vehicles on the road are designed to absorb as much impact as possible. I guess you could say that the other cars safety systems are saving the occupants of the Defender.
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by raysur View Post
What are your pros and cons for your Defender?
Pros: pure awesomeness
Cons: pretty much everything else unless they are a Nth car with N>1
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  #31  
Old February 5th, 2014, 09:08 PM
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Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
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Actually when I had my accident the impact spun me to the left and the left all makes sliders made contact with the other car. Not even one dent on the door or slider. Scratches yes including the other guys paint marks but no dents.
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  #32  
Old February 5th, 2014, 09:13 PM
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Chris
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My wife, all 94lbs, loves driving our 95SW..."it makes me feel safe." She opts out of her BMW 330ci Cabrio to spend time with "Pete"...our 6,400lb baby.

For her, it's a dude magnet. Me...I laugh!

Most women, I've found, love the experience of this lumbering beast of a vehicle. It's better than implants... And it doesn't have to be replaced in 10 years from regular "wear and tear". 😍

My neighbor's wife begged for an Arles Blue '95... She's driving one...happily ever after. 💃💅👠
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  #33  
Old February 18th, 2014, 01:37 PM
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Jeff
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Just as an update... my wife finally got to drive a '97 D90 SW. Long story short --she liked it. :D She had a big smile and was exploring the vehicle more than I was. She gave me the thumbs up to start the search for her car.

So here is the but. I let the idea stew and she came to me with her concern of fuel economy. She told me when we have kids we can get it. But it was too much to move one person around. She told me I can get it and she'll drive my daily driver (but I need it for carpool lane access). So the idea goes to the back burner for now.

I'm happy she reacted to the Defender the way she did. It really made me smile to see her enjoy the vehicle seemingly more than me. My passion became hers...I still don't know what I did to deserve a wife like her. This truck moved her.

So I'm back just being a lurker. It will happen, just not for now.
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