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  #1  
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:03 AM
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ECR NAS 90 cage development questions

I have been having a conversation with Safety Devices lately about the padded NAS 90 cages. We have done a lot of research and it comes down to it being far too costly to reproduce the NAS padded cages. SD has now confirmed that they will not be moving forward on that.

So my question is would a metal tube cage that fit a NAS 90 and utilized the NAS 90 soft top be an acceptable alternative to potential buyers?
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  #2  
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:27 AM
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Several of the un-padded NAS cages have sold on eBay lately. Dale sold one and another one sold out of CT. I would think if there were a way to buy a set after-market 110-like or jeep-type Velcro pads, it would be acceptable.
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  #3  
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by woldd90 View Post
Several of the un-padded NAS cages have sold on eBay lately. Dale sold one and another one sold out of CT. I would think if there were a way to buy a set after-market 110-like or jeep-type Velcro pads, it would be acceptable.
The unpadded cages won't work well with a NAS soft top and what a lot of people don't know is that SD already makes that cage and you can buy it new for less than the used one usually sell for.
but with that you'll be forever chasing the padding in order to make the top fit snug and stay snug and there are gaps and such when used with a standard NAS 90 top.
I was thinking of a direct bolt on replacement for the NAS 90 cage that would not require mods to the truck or top. The only difference being it would not be padded.
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  #4  
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:57 AM
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I think that would be a great option, I purchased a NAS st cage for my rebuild and had to repair some of the foam, I wish I could have purchased a metal cage instead.
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  #5  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:31 AM
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Long-term there would have to be demand for something like this. These vehicles are just going to pick up more rest as time goes by. I just saw a jeep roll-bar "cover" the other day. it was just black canvas with snaps. You could cover most of the bare metal (similar to the canvas roll pad covers we already have). In the end it might not look that much different than the original padded version.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 11:00 AM
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So yo would increase the tube diameter to compensate for no foam? I think that would be really good. Would you still be able to take the c pillar and cantrails out?
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  #7  
Old November 30th, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mattb View Post
Long-term there would have to be demand for something like this. These vehicles are just going to pick up more rest as time goes by. I just saw a jeep roll-bar "cover" the other day. it was just black canvas with snaps. You could cover most of the bare metal (similar to the canvas roll pad covers we already have). In the end it might not look that much different than the original padded version.
We've done that on a fabbed cage using an NAS top and it worked well. Finding foam that was *stiff* enough is a trick but can be done. Having a canvas shop with some patience and talent helps. ECR has that covered (pun intended) in house which is a huge advantage for them. I don't plan on doing it again.
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  #8  
Old November 30th, 2011, 11:45 AM
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So yo would increase the tube diameter to compensate for no foam? I think that would be really good. Would you still be able to take the c pillar and cantrails out?
Correctish.

The tubing would be larger and have bends that brought it out to the profile of what the original cage was. Sort of the like the SVX 90 prototype (but in a NAS 90 shape). The goal would be a cage that would work directly with a stock NAS soft top and eliminate the need for custom soft trim work.
Basically, an option for damaged or rolled NAS 90s now that the NAS cages are so hard to come by and the side benefit would be that Euro 90s could also fit the same cage and run the NAS 90 soft tops.
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  #9  
Old November 30th, 2011, 12:30 PM
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I think this is a great idea. I have always wanted a 3 door 110 with a soft top and a NAS style roll cage. A metal roll cage like this would make a project like that possible.
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  #10  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:05 PM
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For the purists or those who want to restore their trucks, this probably wouldn't be acceptable but have to be accepted, I would think. Maybe we need to have a fundraiser to drum up some $$$ to get the originals reproduced? (I wish)
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  #11  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:19 PM
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Sounds like a good idea. What is lurking under that foam anyways? Is it probable that the inside metal is rusting out from the core?
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  #12  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Sounds like a good idea. What is lurking under that foam anyways? Is it probable that the inside metal is rusting out from the core?
Its just a normal tube cage under the foam. The foam is the issue, it splits and cracks due to UV damage. The metal parts of the upper cage hold up pretty well.

------ Follow up post added November 30th, 2011 01:35 PM ------

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For the purists or those who want to restore their trucks, this probably wouldn't be acceptable but have to be accepted, I would think. (I wish)
Yes, I think people are going to have to get used to it. I know that the tooling to make the NAS cages was destroyed and the investment to do it again is too high. So at some point if you roll your truck and want a true NAS padded cage you aren't going to be able to buy one no matter how much you have (short of buying entire trucks for the cage, and mind you, we are almost at that point already).
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  #13  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Its just a normal tube cage under the foam. The foam is the issue, it splits and cracks due to UV damage. The metal parts of the upper cage hold up pretty well.
Ya I definitely have that problem. I just wasnt sure if under all that foam (much of which has gotten soaked from being in the rain) if that metal was rusting away. I guess not.

It would be nice to have some options for a new cage though and not have to jury rig fitting the top.

B
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  #14  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:51 PM
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I would bet that at some point in time...most of us would end up to buying one :-)
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  #15  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:55 PM
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I know that the tooling to make the NAS cages was destroyed and the investment to do it again is too high.
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We have done a lot of research and it comes down to it being far too costly to reproduce the NAS padded cages. SD has now confirmed that they will not be moving forward on that.
Unless they were legally obligated by LR [or other] to destroy the tooling that was required to make the cages, I still do not understand why in the Hell they'd do that. Now they're at a point where it would require significant development and investment of a product they already developed almost 20 years ago. Plus, the scarcity they created by destroying the tooling has only benefited those who have kept a "virgin" or lightly used cage in their possession or on their truck, who has (or intends to) sell them off at the ridiculous market values. Sure there are costs associated with keeping the tooling, but you'd think that when they saw 1998 prices of these trucks go through the roof, that one of them would think, "hey maybe there's a sustainable market/demand for these cages on an aftermarket basis." Maybe I'm just crazy.

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  #16  
Old November 30th, 2011, 02:23 PM
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Maybe I'm just crazy.

I spoke to Tony Fall before his death about this. He told me he destroyed the tooling. This was later confirmed by his wife Patricia Fall. His reasoning was that they had to move everything for production to Poland so when he came across the tooling he called LR and asked if they would ever be ordering those parts again. LR said no way. He then tried to contact the company that did the padding and they had gone under. So instead of spending the money to ship the parts they scrapped them. I don't agree but if you step back all those years and look at it from his point of view I can see his point.
Regardless they are gone and were cut up and scrapped.
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  #17  
Old November 30th, 2011, 02:33 PM
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I spoke to Tony Fall before his death about this. He told me he destroyed the tooling. This was later confirmed by his wife Patricia Fall. His reasoning was that they had to move everything for production to Poland so when he came across the tooling he called LR and asked if they would ever be ordering those parts again. LR said no way. He then tried to contact the company that did the padding and they had gone under. So instead of spending the money to ship the parts they scrapped them. I don't agree but if you step back all those years and look at it from his point of view I can see his point.
Regardless they are gone and were cut up and scrapped.
Too bad they didn't list it on ebay. I would have bid on it!
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Old November 30th, 2011, 03:06 PM
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What exactly does this tooling look like and what are the components? I'm curious to see what's involved and why the cost is so high to recreate it all. Do you have any pics of this, Mike?
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  #19  
Old November 30th, 2011, 03:28 PM
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What exactly does this tooling look like and what are the components? I'm curious to see what's involved and why the cost is so high to recreate it all. Do you have any pics of this, Mike?
No pics other than this one. It is a high pressure urethane injection done into a metal mold that is heated, etc.
Sadly the company that did the work is gone, so even trying to sort out what the original compound was or where a good place to start on new R&D would be quite a task.
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  #20  
Old November 30th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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There must me a company in the US that could do this. I mean if they can build airplane parts from 3D printers and scan items from an archeological dig with a hacked Kinect like some scifi movie there has to be someone that can do this foam over cage parts then.
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