ECR NAS 90 cage development questions - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old November 30th, 2011, 03:53 PM
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You would think the guys who still do the moulds for the steering wheels would be a great place to start regarding a comparable and durable covering to develop something very close to what was produced originally.
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  #22  
Old November 30th, 2011, 04:09 PM
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I agree, with the way technology is today, you'd think this wouldn't be an impossible or overly expensive task. Worse comes to worse, we buy this new incarnation of the rollcage and Rhinoline it Horsey-style to mimic the originals.
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  #23  
Old November 30th, 2011, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
You would think the guys who still do the moulds for the steering wheels would be a great place to start regarding a comparable and durable covering to develop something very close to what was produced originally.

Maybe Defenderpilot can make some calls. I wonder how many new cages are still floating out there. I mean last year I found nine rear cages all new in the box. Has to be some stock of the rest of it out there.
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  #24  
Old November 30th, 2011, 07:19 PM
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at my job i repair CNC machines and manufacture parts, if i had the dimensions i could the machinists there how hard it would be to type up a program. or next time i go on a service call i will ask the guy if they know anything about this stuff, because you never know it could be a guy who knows a guy.
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  #25  
Old November 30th, 2011, 08:32 PM
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I think it's a great idea. Not sure how many units could be sold but depends on how fancy it gets and the cost.

Like people said, it would be an option for roll'd NAS ST's that can't get a OEM cage. And what about guys that have a NAS ST that is setup for heavy off-road use and want something a little more durable/stronger/safer. They could sell their current ST cage for some coin and put this on.

I think the group that would benefit from this offering most are the people that have the 25 year old imports and want the safety of a cage with the ST option. The SW are cool and all but I think the ST option is best. Hearing about this cage makes me daydream of building up an imported diesel ST wheeler. Bring the NAS back to stock, sell it and build another rig just how I want and not worry about resale.

I agree that there must be some foam options out there or what about carbon? Or even metal/carbon - - haha. But I am sure the developmental costs are what would be keeping those at bay. Bending and welding metal seems the cheapest way.

Mike - what type of tubing would you be using? Chromoly? With the bigger OD - it might start getting pretty heavy depending on the gauge. Would off the shelf stuff work or would you need custom rolled? TIG or MIG welded or bolt together? Any additional cross bracing? I'm sure you are still very early stages and still figuring things out but just curious.
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  #26  
Old November 30th, 2011, 08:35 PM
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If the goal is to replicate the look of the NAS cage, it would be nice to have tubing that's not completely round to mimic the NAS look. Not sure if this creates less structural integrity though.
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  #27  
Old November 30th, 2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specops1526 View Post
If the goal is to replicate the look of the NAS cage, it would be nice to have tubing that's not completely round to mimic the NAS look. Not sure if this creates less structural integrity though.
Now that would be very cool. If you started with an oblong extrusion to make the B & C hoops and cant rails. That would be very custom and probably drive the cost through the roof.
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  #28  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:01 PM
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So then a ST would be more rare than a SW? .
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  #29  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:05 PM
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I think if there was no other choice this would sell. But in an ideal world I much prefer the padded cage.

Someone on the forums (16kpsi/Tony Lawson) said they were going to take this project on about a year ago but there has been no update since. I'll poke the thread.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=23888
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  #30  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:18 PM
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I think that is what makes that cage so unique is the foam and the shape. I've seen a few photos of 90s with "custom" cages that looked really good. I think tubing the diameter of the stock cage would look a bit off.

When you say its cost prohibitive what kinda cost are you talking about?
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  #31  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Pierce View Post
Now that would be very cool. If you started with an oblong extrusion to make the B & C hoops and cant rails. That would be very custom and probably drive the cost through the roof.
I agree that a round stock at that diameter would look a little "off". Flattening tubing shouldn't be too tough. I've seen tubing ovalized for bikes using a vice but that was 0.065 maybe 0.083 wall. I'm sure it's available quick search turned up this: http://www.louisianasteel.com/shapes...el-tubing.html

And if you are doing a weird tube shape what about aluminum? At that OD, the wall thickness might work. But things like extra cost for the welding then heat treating and how it would hold up in a roll-over might be prohibitive. But an aluminum cage on a Rover sounds pretty cool.
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  #32  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:47 PM
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Why not go with a pad on the metal which mimics the shape and dimensions of the foam. Think a foam shape covered with material and secured by velcro/zippers. Most see the badger tops as an upgrade to the original bestop designs. Executed correctly, padding could be a great option. Running it through your upholstery shop or partnering with Badger would provide a JIT capability to match slow volumes/demand.

Am I missing the point?
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  #33  
Old November 30th, 2011, 10:49 PM
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Why would anyone even want it when they can buy the much better looking svx cage.

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Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
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  #34  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post

When you say its cost prohibitive what kinda cost are you talking about?
With the padding redone correctly to match the original the units costs went up to about $12,500. for each cage if we made 200 units.
not only would they not sell the initial investment is more than we can handle, unless someone wants to cough up a couple mil for development.

We have already explored dozens of paths to try and get the padding done. It is too costly.

Larger round tubing is what we plan/ think it should be. It has to be larger in order to make up for the rubber in ceratin areas to fill gaps.
Oval tubing is not going to happen on areas that have to bend.

------ Follow up post added December 1st, 2011 08:06 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRW View Post
Why not go with a pad on the metal which mimics the shape and dimensions of the foam. Think a foam shape covered with material and secured by velcro/zippers. Most see the badger tops as an upgrade to the original bestop designs. Executed correctly, padding could be a great option. Running it through your upholstery shop or partnering with Badger would provide a JIT capability to match slow volumes/demand.

Am I missing the point?
The tubes are round, the padding was egg shaped.
Egg shaped pads applied to the round tube with zips would shift and rotate making top fitting harder than it already is.
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  #35  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
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The tubes are round, the padding was egg shaped.
Egg shaped pads applied to the round tube with zips would shift and rotate making top fitting harder than it already is.
This one is easy - you could have small tabs on the tubing to stop the rotation.

I'd definitely be more receptive to a padded solution over raw metal.
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  #36  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:42 AM
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Definetely not a cheap endeavor and I can't see how you could make them at reasonable cost. You'd need SD or someone else to mass produce.

I was working with a mass fabrication shop in AZ on building NAS ST rear cages using DOM tubing that was pressed into an oval shape and would be the same dimensions as the stock cage, but the cost was extreme at about $3k each, not including shipping or retail mark up. The other option was to outsource to China which they offered, but I wasn't going to let that happen. I eventually gave up.
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  #37  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
This one is easy - you could have small tabs on the tubing to stop the rotation.

I'd definitely be more receptive to a padded solution over raw metal.
Over time the tabs would eat into the foam padding due to the shifting as you take the top on and off etc. and then things would start not to fit.
The more parts you add, the more it costs and the more parts you have to make from different suppliers, etc etc.
The more it costs the less you sell and the more people complain about the price.
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  #38  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:54 AM
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Forgot to mention the weight was a signicant increase, and the liability for mass produced cages sucks.
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  #39  
Old December 1st, 2011, 08:59 AM
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I hear you Mike. But I do think replacing padding or the cover when necessary would still be a viable solution as opposed to the current situation, and still better than no padding at all. I can't see this being done with oversized/oval shaped tubing though. At some point it will just not look right. What OD tubing were you thinking of going with?
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  #40  
Old December 1st, 2011, 09:03 AM
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I think it is a great idea... that is the one thing that I am dreading when I get started on my 90 project...
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