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  #21  
Old November 10th, 2008, 12:19 AM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverC
Maybe you could email him direct? Or Pendy seemed to know the truck as well.

Follow-up Post:

what timing....

Follow-up Post:

Here is a pic of my old setup before I swapped the 4 speed for a 6 speed auto

Its a built 4L80/85e (for sale by the way, pass the word)
Ashcroft built LT230 w/ 1:1 high range and no electronics
Ashcroft new design (as of '06) crawler box
Marks 4x4 (Australia) adapters.

I will take some of the new setup, which is the same except a 6L80e, and a custom adapter (part Marks, part mine)
so what was your final setup, did you ever finish it? my d's engine is just about to kick it...

Did you deal directly with mark's? i've tried to send them a few emails but never got a response...

I'm trying to decide lt1 or 4.3 vortec, and whether to do a tranny swap too...
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  #22  
Old November 10th, 2008, 01:06 AM
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Andrew Najarian
'93 NAS D110 #43
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If you're considering the LT1 why not just go for the LS1 or LS6...

You can find a complete used LS1s with the harness and ecu pretty darn cheap out of a camaro/firechicken.
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  #23  
Old November 10th, 2008, 10:18 AM
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GYM
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Gary
97 SW
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LS6 as in 454 ?
Squeezing a fat block into a D-90 would be an interesting sight to behold...
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  #24  
Old November 10th, 2008, 01:34 PM
RoverC
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Cliff
1997 D90 ST
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 482
Its all in, just not finished.

It is the all aluminum L92 6.2L out of the 2007 Escalade ESV that has variable valve timing.
Tranny is the 6L80e 6 speed auto. Has the same 4 gears as the ZF that our trucks came w/ but an added lower 1st of 4.07, and a 6th of .63.
Adapter is a part of the Marks kit and a custom mating plate as the 6L has a MUCH larger bolt pattern than the 4L80e.
Mated that to the new Ashcroft t/c w/ 1:1 high range and their new underdrive.
The t/c sits back about 1-2" from stock, so a plate to move the shifter forward has to be made. Pretty simple and straightforward there.

Engine stock is about 403hp, 417 tq. W/ headers, no cats and an ECU tune, comes out around 450hp, 490tq. I didnt do the tune to get more power, you just have to do that if you remove the cats and add headers etc anyway. Just a byproduct. I was more than happy w/ a 400 hp engine.

The Tq is 300+ at 2000 rpm and builds fast. Pretty flat curve from 2500-5500 rpm. Should pull strong. (4.07 1st gear x 3.321 low range x 2.69 underdrive x 4.16 gearing = 151.25 possible final drive, not accounting for the doubling effect of the auto box) That gives me allot of choices.

This engine has the tall truck intake and looks to clear the hood. Puts out more low rpm tq compared to the other LS engine designs.

You can get an ECU that will allow different fuel settings (83/87/93 octane) or adjust sensitivity to the gas pedal like the RR's do when you put it in low to avoid wheel spin. Id like that feature, but my GM ECU has built in cruise control which they dont offer yet. Might as well use it! Once they do, I will switch.

Nice thing here is the engine is totally stock! A gazillion parts for them anywhere from junkyards to any parts store.

Escalades at 6500 lbs get a tad over 20 mpg highway with this engine at 70mph. So being 2500 lbs lighter I hope to achieve the same or better. I have more wind resistance, but alot less wt. Time will tell.

Marks motor mount adapters dont fit the Gen IV engine mounts, so you have to get Gen I adapters like they use when putting these engines into a early A body. I may send the mounts to someone like Roverhybrids so they can duplicate them as no one makes them anywhere in the world to bolt right up! (Have to do some bartering there ;-) )

Also have to use the high mount A/c bracket from Kwikperformance.com to clear the frame.
Need to use the vette alt/ps bracket w/ spacers to clear the steering box.

Exhaust Im not sure about yet, but JBA block hugger shorty's should clear.

Pan is damn deep on this engine, but looks to clear, If not its an easy swap to one of the other 3-4 style pans to get more clearance.

This is all if you are using the engines w/ VVT. A normal LS1/LS2/LS3/LS6 etc w/o VVT has a shorter water pump and may fit differently. I think those brackets are still needed anyway to clear. Just different spacing and different pullys.

I got all my stuff directly from Marks in Aus, but had a buddy go by there and buy it, then ship it. Even after paying him $100 for his time it was about 1/2 of what AA wanted for the same stuff! And by the way, it seems Marks may not stock some items, they MAKE them when you order them. so there is a lag time.

If they know youre in the USA, they try to defer you to AA, who I found was totally in the dark about the parts, how and if they fit etc. They just sell them. Ask them a question, they contact Marks.

Next up is adding the Disc brake parking brake conversion and the Howe PS pump. Im using the stock 165 amp alt that came w/ the engine for now.

Then getting the radiator made like John F's and adjusting the clearance to the front of the engine.

Follow-up Post:

By the way, they and maybe roverhybrids make a chevy to ZF adapter.
So if you went with the 4.3 you could keep the ZF box (I have one for sale w/ the LT230Q t/c out of my '97 D90 for sale by the way)

Knowing Id be putting out 400+ hp I asked Ashcroft about his thoughts on a ZF holding up even if he made a 22/24 hybrid like he does, and his response was "doubtful". Thus I went w/ the chevy autobox, 1st the 4L80/85e (for sale now) and then the 6 speed when it came out last year.
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  #25  
Old November 10th, 2008, 10:33 PM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverC
Follow-up Post:

By the way, they and maybe roverhybrids make a chevy to ZF adapter.
So if you went with the 4.3 you could keep the ZF box (I have one for sale w/ the LT230Q t/c out of my '97 D90 for sale by the way)

Knowing Id be putting out 400+ hp I asked Ashcroft about his thoughts on a ZF holding up even if he made a 22/24 hybrid like he does, and his response was "doubtful". Thus I went w/ the chevy autobox, 1st the 4L80/85e (for sale now) and then the 6 speed when it came out last year.
i don't have a zf, so that won't do me much good, i was praying someone would have made an nv4500 to lt230 converter, that would make a great tough drive train without axle swapping...

The reason for an lt1 over a ls1 or the such is i can get a 94 lt1 out of a camaro no problem and if ever there are issues with engine swapping i don't have to keep the obd2 equipment of a newer motor, plus the i've already done a 94 lt1 swap into my fj40, so i'm familiar with the available vendors for the parts...

any chance your friend might be interested in making some more cash?

Any other vendors for adapter parts?
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  #26  
Old November 10th, 2008, 11:24 PM
RoverC
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Cliff
1997 D90 ST
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 482
Sounds like Pendy knows that James Pierce did just that but with a Vortec engine. Not sure who he is, but maybe someone can track him down and see who made his?
Shame these guys do all this work then sell the truck!

If I can find a good fabricator like Rovertracks (meant RT when I said RH) who can duplicate the adapter motor mounts, I will send them to them. They would then have both Gen 1 mounts all the way through Gen IV.
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  #27  
Old November 11th, 2008, 02:48 AM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverC
Sounds like Pendy knows that James Pierce did just that but with a Vortec engine. Not sure who he is, but maybe someone can track him down and see who made his?
Shame these guys do all this work then sell the truck!

If I can find a good fabricator like Rovertracks (meant RT when I said RH) who can duplicate the adapter motor mounts, I will send them to them. They would then have both Gen 1 mounts all the way through Gen IV.
i see it over an d over again on every forum i frequent, someone goes into a huge build up project, has it all laid out, blows a huge wad of cash, loses interest or ability to keep the vehicle as soon as they are done...

anyone with knowledge of a nv4500 to lt230 adapter?
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  #28  
Old November 11th, 2008, 11:24 AM
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jim pendleton
89'd90
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Location: andover, ks usa
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Yes

Keep searching you will find it. If I spoon feed you what have you gained?
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  #29  
Old November 11th, 2008, 09:50 PM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Yes

Keep searching you will find it. If I spoon feed you what have you gained?
so your saying the best idea is to buy a th400 adapter from marks and get someone to modify it to fit an nv4500?
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  #30  
Old November 11th, 2008, 11:55 PM
RoverC
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Cliff
1997 D90 ST
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 482
No, I "think" he meant search the threads and web for the answer. Not sure why... being funny I suppose
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  #31  
Old November 12th, 2008, 12:30 AM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverC
No, I "think" he meant search the threads and web for the answer. Not sure why... being funny I suppose
i've searched, I could list off the first 30 hits from google no one really seems to have an answer a few custom solutions using mark's stuff...

Rover hybrids has some pictures posted of a conversion, but they don't have much of a description with them, i'm just amazed with the fact that no one just makes it...
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  #32  
Old November 12th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Shane@EVS
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Roverhybrids
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RDG, CA, USA
Posts: 420
I have an adapter that i made using ideas from James and Ryan S. You can see some pics on the 4BT build on my website:
http://www.roverhybrids.com/VA_4BT_D90.html

The end result was expensive, more than most can justify..........
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  #33  
Old November 12th, 2008, 10:35 AM
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pendy
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jim pendleton
89'd90
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
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Not enough of a market.

I could sell you the stuff to do this and ship it this week. But my guess is you won't pay my price. You are just out beating on doors looking for the inexpensive option. But maybe I'm wrong.

Whats the color of your money?

People have been trying to make this happen for 10 plus years. Everyone who has, ran into financial obstacles preventing it from being reproduceable on a economies to scale approach. So what ever you end up with will be a one off.

Keith K - rovertrx did boast to me in an alocohol induced moment that he was involved in the latest attempt to make kits for this available. Prolly with Advance Adapt I would guess.

To my knowledge all mods like this have been a progression. Many of us involved have seen the problems encountered. If memory serves me correctly I think Shane followed the best path yet with his latest conception. If he broached the input of the LT 230 to take the NV output shaft. Thats the path I would like to see this idea take if it actually happens. On a large scale.


Someone give this guy Clark from Canadas phone number! LOL
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  #34  
Old November 12th, 2008, 08:53 PM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Not enough of a market.

I could sell you the stuff to do this and ship it this week. But my guess is you won't pay my price. You are just out beating on doors looking for the inexpensive option. But maybe I'm wrong.

Whats the color of your money?

People have been trying to make this happen for 10 plus years. Everyone who has, ran into financial obstacles preventing it from being reproduceable on a economies to scale approach. So what ever you end up with will be a one off.

Keith K - rovertrx did boast to me in an alocohol induced moment that he was involved in the latest attempt to make kits for this available. Prolly with Advance Adapt I would guess.

To my knowledge all mods like this have been a progression. Many of us involved have seen the problems encountered. If memory serves me correctly I think Shane followed the best path yet with his latest conception. If he broached the input of the LT 230 to take the NV output shaft. Thats the path I would like to see this idea take if it actually happens. On a large scale.


Someone give this guy Clark from Canadas phone number! LOL
that wouldn't be obw would it? no thanks...

From what i read it seamed like modifying the input would make it too weak...
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  #35  
Old November 12th, 2008, 11:14 PM
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jim pendleton
89'd90
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Location: andover, ks usa
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No the Clark I am refering to is way further back then BOW SC
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  #36  
Old November 13th, 2008, 12:00 AM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
No the Clark I am refering to is way further back then BOW SC
guess i'm just to young...


roverhybrids:

i came across the page you linked in my search, but the description was lacking for me half technical knowledge skill level...
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  #37  
Old December 21st, 2008, 08:15 PM
RoverC
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Cliff
1997 D90 ST
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Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 482
Actually swapping in the engine isnt all that big a deal.
Marks makes motor mount adapters for the Gen 1 & 2 engines.
They also make adapters for chevy trans to lt230's.
So if you go that route it all bolts right in, albeit overall length is longer so modifying your drivesaft lengths are required.

I have located one person who has bolted in an LS Gen III engine into 2 different Defenders in the UK.
I will see if he can duplicate the motor mount adapters he fabbed.
He actually got the engine from Turn Key, here in the USA which is where I was getting my original LS engine from. Small world.
Need to know what headers he is using as it cleared the frame with NO issues!
He is running a LS1 w/ 4L80e, which is the exact setup I started with! He took it to Aus for some competition and it performed flawlessly. Said something about spinning his 35" Simex Tires at 30mph on tarmac (he has a 1.4:1 lt230 though)
There is another person that did similar in South Africa.
Hard to believe these guys have done it before anyone here, as they order the engines and trannys from builders here in the USA.

Now if he can provide the mounts, and RT makes a ZF adapter, then the auto guys should have a pretty easy swap. Maybe RT can then make it all.

As to the NV trans, sounds like RT may have that in the works too?

Some one should actually take the Marks kit and duplicate it as AA is useless and Marks never seems to answer their email or phone!
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  #38  
Old December 21st, 2008, 11:56 PM
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Trevor K
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http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_53350.htm this is what i'm thinking about, keeping the r380 transmission trying to get mark's to send me an adapter... you might think with the crap economy maybe he'd be willing to work with me?
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  #39  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 12:53 AM
RoverC
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Cliff
1997 D90 ST
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 482
Trevor,
Just my opinion, but check places like Schramm for engines out of wrecked vehicles with low miles.
For example, I got my 2007 L92 complete with all accessories (alt, PS, ac) plus wiring, ecu, 6 speed auto, w/ GM transfer case for less that they want for just that engine alone!
Plus mine had only 27 miles on it!
Took a bit of looking, but well worth the wait.
LS1's LS2's etc have been around long enough so that you should be able to find some great deals.

What I like about the L92 besides the VVT is that it was designed as a truck engine and designed to last a good 250k+ miles. I only drive my daily driver just shy of 11K miles a year so this engine should be good for what, 28 years, if I drive it 9k miles a year taking trips from FL to CO etc.

I recontacted the guy in Aus that sent me my parts, I will let you know what he says about Marks.

Also, no one seems to make the correct motor mounts.
Hopefully this guy in the UK will write back. I can adapt the Marks Gen I mounts if need be, but it would be great if someone in the USA had both.

If I can get ahold of them, maybe someone like Keith at RT can duplicate them so they are available.
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  #40  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 01:11 AM
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tkavan01
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Trevor K
94 d90 #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverC
Trevor,
Just my opinion, but check places like Schramm for engines out of wrecked vehicles with low miles.
For example, I got my 2007 L92 complete with all accessories (alt, PS, ac) plus wiring, ecu, 6 speed auto, w/ GM transfer case for less that they want for just that engine alone!
Plus mine had only 27 miles on it!
Took a bit of looking, but well worth the wait.
LS1's LS2's etc have been around long enough so that you should be able to find some great deals.

What I like about the L92 besides the VVT is that it was designed as a truck engine and designed to last a good 250k+ miles. I only drive my daily driver just shy of 11K miles a year so this engine should be good for what, 28 years, if I drive it 9k miles a year taking trips from FL to CO etc.

I recontacted the guy in Aus that sent me my parts, I will let you know what he says about Marks.

Also, no one seems to make the correct motor mounts.
Hopefully this guy in the UK will write back. I can adapt the Marks Gen I mounts if need be, but it would be great if someone in the USA had both.

If I can get ahold of them, maybe someone like Keith at RT can duplicate them so they are available.
i've been looking at motors online and seems like the cheap ones get snapped up real quick and put back on the market for a premium... What i like about the turn key motor is the 5 wire setup! no dealing with all the jazz of a new harness and everything... we'll see though, i'm gonna keep watching for something to pop up
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