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  #41  
Old August 31st, 2014, 11:37 PM
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I wish we could get some radical liberals to post here to provide some balance.
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  #42  
Old August 31st, 2014, 11:47 PM
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They're on the Prius forum! ;-)
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  #43  
Old August 31st, 2014, 11:48 PM
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I wish we could get some radical liberals to post here to provide some balance.
Or some sober people?
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  #44  
Old August 31st, 2014, 11:49 PM
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Or some sober people?
In Russia that is the definition of radically liberal.
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  #45  
Old August 31st, 2014, 11:50 PM
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Burp...
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  #46  
Old September 1st, 2014, 12:01 AM
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Jeff- Are you kidding? The numbers behind how many American's have been lost to radical Islam under Obama vs Bush? Let's start with the 9/11's: Bush's 9/11: ~2600 Americans (I'm not counting the 19 hijackers nor non-US citizens). Obama's 9/11: 4 OIF (elective war, up till 2008): 4222 OIF (since): 578 My point being everyone rant's about responsibility and leadership, well it goes both ways. If you're in the seat when something happens-you are responsible. So 9/11, that's on Bush. His primary job is to protect American lives. He failed. After that we proceeded to win, and then subsequently lose, the right war with the wrong tactics and people (OEF)-in particular when-ironically-we handed it over to NATO. That was a Bush decision. Amidst this we proceeded to lose, then win, and then leave the wrong war (OIF). We can keep parsing the numbers out if you guys want. The fact that ya'll don't know these is what I was getting at when I asked who is going to be doing the fighting and the dying for the next war we go running into for the sake of being the world's policeman. Somehow I doubt it is the people talking the loudest about what the current POTUS has done, and probably are trying to distance themselves from the other last example. r- Ray
Interesting stance....when it has been documented that 1. AQ gained traction in the 80s and planning for 9-11 occurred during the 90s 2. Lumping lives lost in an act of terror versus a military operation. We all understand, on afterthought, that a lot of poor decisions were made in the OIF timeframe. But I think what folks are saying is that acting impotent right now will have massive ramifications down the road. Either with POTUS Hillary or a Republican in 2016 or beyond.

I can't and won't comment on any POTUS. But Ray, of all people on the source, I'm surprised to see you taking a very shallow approach to the current state of world affairs. You know it's not about numbers; if it was, I'd never order another village/building cleared during a military operation.. And again, POTUS followed the set timeline prior to his administration on departing Iraq.
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  #47  
Old September 1st, 2014, 12:30 AM
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haaaaaaaaahahhhhaaaa

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In Russia that is the definition of radically liberal.
h

I just saw an add on TheLiberalToday.com website - Toyota is selling a 2015 Holland and Holland Prius version equiped with squirt guns, a fine Ikea made water cabinet and twizzlers. Holland and Holland will resupply you with all the Figi water for both you and your squirt guns for an entire year.



Now we get to the good discussions. hilarious. ROTFLMAO. Burp as well.
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  #48  
Old September 1st, 2014, 12:39 AM
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Action or inaction can be argued pretty easily from both the left and the right when it comes to Ukraine. But, what about our (U.S.) commitment to defend Ukraine in case of aggression by a nuclear armed nation, as a condition of their giving up nuclear weapons back in 1994? A lack of follow through could have far reaching negative consequences when it comes to current and future foreign policy agreements.
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  #49  
Old September 1st, 2014, 12:42 AM
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should we be

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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Let's face it... Your so called elected official (which I dont believe was elected by the people as much as he was elected by the great electoral college).. Is a joke amongst his own people and amongst the world, America should be ashamed to call such a self serving pussy as a leader of what undoubtedly USEto be a nation to be feared..

Just to extract one point of the above "should we be a nation that is feared"? Don't get me wrong I don't want to be a nation of push overs (which I don't believe we are).
BUT the point I was making is why doesn't Europe go first this time. lead the way gents go help the country next store or down the street, O...its the month of August and all of Europe is on vacation hmmm that just dawned on me that this would be a good time for all of europe to head to the Ukrainian Riveria with their caravans towed behind their saloons maybe a show of a little support behind a common cause.
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  #50  
Old September 1st, 2014, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SMac View Post
Interesting stance....when it has been documented that 1. AQ gained traction in the 80s and planning for 9-11 occurred during the 90s 2. Lumping lives lost in an act of terror versus a military operation. We all understand, on afterthought, that a lot of poor decisions were made in the OIF timeframe. But I think what folks are saying is that acting impotent right now will have massive ramifications down the road. Either with POTUS Hillary or a Republican in 2016 or beyond.

I can't and won't comment on any POTUS. But Ray, of all people on the source, I'm surprised to see you taking a very shallow approach to the current state of world affairs. You know it's not about numbers; if it was, I'd never order another village/building cleared during a military operation.. And again, POTUS followed the set timeline prior to his administration on departing Iraq.
A valid point about it being a shallow discussion, its the internet-not my MA program (which, thank god, is done). Afterall this discussion includes the bashing of the electoral college for electing Obama...as if it also didn't elect Bush (2000 anyone?)...we're not exactly writing for Foreign Affairs here. Differentiation between an act of terror and a war is semantics, at the end of the day it is American lives lost.

If we want to go deeper we'll acknowledge that AQ didn't exist till the very end of the 80's and even in that form was a very different beast than what we have today. I would argue it doesn't really matter when an operation is planned-the execution and its effects are what we're talking about, my point merely was/is that too many blame this POTUS for small things but are unwilling to acknowledge the massive failures for what is presumeably their last person in power.

To your point though; are there significant ramifications for acting 'impotent' in certain cases like the Ukraine? If the endstate is to challenge other regional actors to stand up for themselves instead of relying on us to always do it for them, perhaps impotence is the best course of action. Unfortunately I don't believe that is our intentional strategy, it's what may come from an absence of any strategy.
r-
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  #51  
Old September 1st, 2014, 02:57 AM
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Kidding? No, I just asked a simple question. Don't be offended.

How do they Afghanistan numbers factor in?

-Jeff
Jeff-
Depends on how you view Afghanistan as a conflict. I'd describe it as being the right war, initially brilliantly won-and then lost when we handed it over to NATO to squander. Some could legitimately argue it was lost the minute we started applying significant conventional forces to it, or when we lumped the TB in with AQ.

In the midst of this political discussion though the #'s of lost Americans are an interesting metric. Still less than OIF despite being longer, but for the timeframe of Republican administration you are looking at 1049 KIA vs the 2419 under Obama. Ironically of course that is b/c the current POTUS ordered a surge there as he was getting us out of Iraq. Unfortunately, in many ways the surge was really something to buy space/time for capacity building in the ANSF, we'll see how long that works out for us.

r-
R
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  #52  
Old September 1st, 2014, 03:58 AM
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No Eastern or a Western country has ever succeeded other than in the short term in Afghanistan.
Brits failed USSR fail USA fail.
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  #53  
Old September 1st, 2014, 07:34 AM
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I a m not implying you own a truck, can sunday drive over the Atlantic and are nicknamed Sonoronos NATO
Glad you clarified that! lol...
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  #54  
Old September 1st, 2014, 02:43 PM
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Increased FP measures on FBTX for the time being. Anyone else feel safe with our border policy?

And Putin, the guy we think we can ignore....Im not necessarily an advocate of directly influencing these so called regional conflicts as well, but Putin punked us out of Manas, our main transit center into Afghanistan. Our so called allies in the Russian sphere of influence...we let them rot?

So this is just the open source info that most folks are too busy, lazy, and or dumb to research. Call me a fear monger or hater, but the world is a scary place. And not because of our actions. We have made a lot of poor decisions, but our inactions speak volumes to the adversaries of peace.
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  #55  
Old September 1st, 2014, 03:06 PM
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...my point merely was/is that too many blame this POTUS for small things but are unwilling to acknowledge the massive failures for what is presumeably their last person in power.

Umm, yeah.

I think we all agree that the current POTUS was responsible for Cash For Clunkers...which resulted in the untimely deaths of too many Range Range Rover Classics.

I cannot forgive him for that.






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  #56  
Old September 1st, 2014, 03:27 PM
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I have been wondering what POTUS stood for...but not game enough to ask.. Duh.. president of the United States..
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  #57  
Old September 1st, 2014, 06:44 PM
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I am glad you asked

was wondering that myself
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  #58  
Old September 1st, 2014, 06:53 PM
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Off topic... Clay, you better be at URE in October...
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  #59  
Old September 1st, 2014, 08:44 PM
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not this yURE but very likey nexy yURE.

I don't think I will be making it this year. I won't bore you with the details but I think I can get my ass over there next year. The littlest one should be out of diapers by then and hopefully I will have a permanent place of employment. Still recovering from lots of positive transitions that have gone on in the household in the past year. New baby, new house, new coast, life flying at me.

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Off topic... Clay, you better be at URE in October...
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