Why the non-NAS defender market is not necessarily a great idea - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 7th, 2015, 11:05 AM
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Why the non-NAS defender market is not necessarily a great idea

Before everyone goes nuts, just read my thoughts and curious about the boards comments… I've been a rover fan as long as I can remember. I remember when the NAS D90's were sitting on the lots and drooling over them. Now that I'm much older and buying one is still a bit of a stretch, although much more in reach than back then. I've had many Range Rover's overtime and most recently I'm just down to one, and I sold my old classic in exchange for a 1988 944 Turbo S. Only made them for one year and only a small few are left in the U.S and experiencing some large market growth potential.

I had thoughts of selling or trading the 951 and getting into a defender 110 because the market value is about the same for a nice LHD non-NAS D110 (~$30-$40k). But I realized something that I hadn't thought about before… The import defender market will always be rather stable, because of the 25 year import law, a 1989 is now less valuable than a 1990, and next year the 1991's will be allowed in and so on... Special models notwithstanding. Whereas a 951 or fill in the blank for any other car of limited production, the value has the potential of no ceiling. All that is to say, don't look at the non-NAS defender market as something that may grow overtime as in theory there will be a continuing supply of newer defender imports available to us.

So when I do buy my defender, which I most certainly and nvariably will, and hopefully soon… It will be used for its designed purpose with no hesitation… And I won't be looking for some imported garage queen someone has dumped a bunch of money into it to attract US buyers.. Save that for the north American specs.
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  #2  
Old November 7th, 2015, 11:26 AM
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I think a nicely restored NAS or ROW will steadily rise in value because the cost of restoring these 25yr old Junkers continues to rise due to the NTO and new parts rising in cost exponentially with each passing year now that production of this model is ending.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 11:39 AM
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Read your thoughts with interest, not sure where Defender values will cap....but one things for certain they aint making no more of em If I were waiting for the right truck it would be a 1998 V8 90 in Atlantic Green. These still fetch the very best price in Europe...I think values are only going to increase with genuine 200's now coming into the 25 year limit.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 11:44 AM
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Have fun with your NAS. I'll take a ROW truck any day. I think you need to look at the market and trends s bit more before you make claims like that.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 11:58 AM
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I am buying as many Gen 1 Freelanders as I can find.
The market is going to bounce back.
Defenders are soft.

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Old November 7th, 2015, 12:00 PM
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Hahaha! Wait, that was your sarcastic font, right? ;-)
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Old November 7th, 2015, 12:09 PM
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The first generation Freelander was ahead of its time. Honda looks, Land Rover reliability, how can that fail?
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Old November 7th, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
Have fun with your NAS. I'll take a ROW truck any day. I think you need to look at the market and trends s bit more before you make claims like that.
You're missing my point. I'm not saying I'm going after a NAS. It's about the market value of a ROW Defender in the U.S., which in theory could remain flat because of the ability to import them, and next year we can import one year newer ones. We can continue to import ROW defenders until 2040 at which point the current defender ceases to have "new" ones available to the market. Anywhere.
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  #9  
Old November 7th, 2015, 12:13 PM
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I certainly agree that as the first true 'Defenders' with their 200Tdi turn 25, the cost will go up. The 200 was such a massive improvement over the previous engines, it was astonishing. I drive ine of the very first Defenders when I lived in the Scottish Highlands in 1990, and it made the previous models look noisy & weak.

If I could choose, I'd wait for the 50th anniversary model to turn 25 & buy one. Very similar to a NAS except RHD, they had the best of everything- AC, exo cage, V8, and were automatic. Sadly I need one before then, so I built my own.

I think the LHD trucks will always hold more value because 1) they generally come from drier countries, and 2) many Yanks just don't want RHD. That's where the money is- either that or if someone can figure out an efficient way to swap RHD to LHD.

944 is a nice car, but you can buy Boxsters for the same money now, with 996's not far away. But the build & feel of the 944 is far superior.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signalMTB View Post
I had thoughts of selling or trading the 951 and getting into a defender 110 because the market value is about the same for a nice LHD non-NAS D110 (~$30-$40k). But I realized something that I hadn't thought about before… The import defender market will always be rather stable, because of the 25 year import law, a 1989 is now less valuable than a 1990, and next year the 1991's will be allowed in and so on... Special models notwithstanding. Whereas a 951 or fill in the blank for any other car of limited production, the value has the potential of no ceiling. All that is to say, don't look at the non-NAS defender market as something that may grow overtime as in theory there will be a continuing supply of newer defender imports available to us.
This would be accurate if the US was the only market for the 25 year old defender. All used Defenders now have to supply global demand. Defenders less than 25 years old will find homes on the global market before the 25 year old ones do. That reduces the pool of 25 year old trucks available for US consumption. The annual market demand for 20,000 +/- defenders will likely drop but there will still be enough demand to suck the used car pool dry. IMO.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 12:39 PM
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I been importing them for 5 years now. I swear it's getting harder every year to find a good example. I thought every year it would get easier and it has been the exact opposite
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  #12  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
I been importing them for 5 years now. I swear it's getting harder every year to find a good example. I thought every year it would get easier and it has been the exact opposite
Could it be the word is out so there new folks in the import and sell game? Thinking there are 5 or 6 in VA alone that got in because it was lucrative, not because they had a passion for Rovers.
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  #13  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
This would be accurate if the US was the only market for the 25 year old defender. All used Defenders now have to supply global demand. Defenders less than 25 years old will find homes on the global market before the 25 year old ones do. That reduces the pool of 25 year old trucks available for US consumption. The annual market demand for 20,000 +/- defenders will likely drop but there will still be enough demand to suck the used car pool dry. IMO.
Anecdotally what I have observed in the UAE lends to this; mid 90's trucks are seemingly going up in price as the awareness of the end of production became more pronounced.

As Briggs notes, it's all about fashion and in the land of GWagons getting body kits to look AMG spec there is also a strong and seemingly growing subset of Defenders being swooped up and blinged out.
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  #14  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:22 PM
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Eh, when the economy slides, or the collector car bubble bursts, or the trendiness of these trucks fade the prices will plummet. There is no shortage of these trucks in the world, re-pro parts are easy to manufacture, and the US is an artificially hyped market.

It seems like a lot of the used sales I'm seeing lately are people trying to cash-in on the NAS values, and people trying to unload nice ROW "restos" because they are realizing they paid to much for a pile of shit, and they want to get out of it without losing their ass when the rust starts bleeding through.

Buy a Defender and wheel it because you love it. Fuck everything else.
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Old November 7th, 2015, 01:29 PM
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Agreed
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  #16  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:31 PM
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I know people in Europe buying new LHD 110s with AC and storing them.
When production ends next month the demand for new Defenders will be the same.
In a year or more those who stored them will be able to double and triple their investment.
What will happen next year has already happened to some extent in continental Europe, especially Switzerland, the prices over there will rise the same or higher than here in USA.
This is a point you are overlooking.
Then the population of ROW rovers will get depleted in UK and the prices will increase faster than your 951.
I respectfully submit that, economically, price is a function of supply and demand and we are about to see a steady demand with a diminishing supply.
Defender prices will jump while your 951 will be the same or may even drop some.
This is based on low demand for a specialty vehicle, right buyer and so on regarding the 951 and huge demand for Defender Style Vehicles continuing.
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  #17  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:33 PM
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This biggest problem is finding people that looked after them for 25 years. I tell people go and find me a 25 year old jeep Cherokee in great condition.

It's the same in the UK. Yes they made a lot but a lot are not fit to import or have been to well looked after (galvi chassis, engine conversions and such).

I wish I could just sell the ex mod 109's, 101's, and 110/90's I love and have a passion for but the market just doesn't not support it. The demand is for the 5 door. So I have to most put my money into those. I just hope the UK prices on ex mod stuff start coming down so I can get back to the fun stuff.

------ Follow up post added November 7th, 2015 01:35 PM ------

And lightweight's I love them too but God the price on lightweights and 101's is beyond nuts
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Old November 7th, 2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
Have fun with your NAS. I'll take a ROW truck any day...
Me too..
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  #19  
Old November 7th, 2015, 03:38 PM
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Buy an Ex Military Defender =Good honest value!

I think some people are missing the point. Good cheap starter Land Rovers can be fun,and that the basic Imported RHD+LHD Ex Military Defenders are great value for money,for what they are! They nearly always have rebuilt engines,straight bodies,and a super way to jump into the Defender world at a starter level,and they can be improved. Ex Civilian owned Imports are a different case,they have nearly always had rust,and it is hard to find unmodified stock vehicles now in UK.Good examples are all going up now in value irrespective of age.A 1985 is worth no less than a 1989 model, why? -they are classics.
Sure there are nice Hot climate LHD examples occassionally available from Europe, but a 25yr old LHD example is a rare animal in Europe too! they never had that many,and the language factor can cause difficulty if trying to import from Italy/France/Greece/Portugal/Spain etc.
Old Defenders are sure to remain stable or increase in price across the board in the future;Look at Toyota FJ series,Willys flat fender Jeeps,Dodge Power wagons and anything classic in USA now its all on the rise UP...
NAS Defenders will continue to rise because of rarity factor,i am sure.particularly if in stock condition and low mileage.
*But of course, i would say this,as i sell Ex Mil Defenders ! Roll up! Roll up! and buy yours now whilst you still can ! RHD 110 GS cargo's from GB£4750, and RHD Tithonus 110 from GB£5750. RHD LR90's from GB£5250.
Cheap RoRo to East coast from $1300. And we help with all aspects of the import process for free.
Please PM me with your Ex Mil Defender requests.
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  #20  
Old November 7th, 2015, 03:54 PM
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I agree with Derek, Its getting more difficult to find good ones.

That's why we now 'in bed' so to speak with a US company on the east coast. We can offer RHD 90's and 110's fom about $6k for a project, we can also offer all the parts to build your project from galvanized chassis etc, engine upgrades, left hand drive conversions to full body shells.
We have some nice vehicles coming through the pipeline. But should a client want something special, like the Himalaya style vehicles we can offer that too. All are built in the USA. We have found there is still a high demand for RHD daily driver trucks. We are also busy with our diesel repower kits and LHD conversions, we offer 300tdi style, late model TD5 style and TDCI style. All the work on any conversion is done in the USA.
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