Why call a 90/110 a Defender when its not? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Why call a 90/110 a Defender when its not?

So since I have been hanging around Land Rovers for over a decade now I still cant seem to wrap my head around why everyone keeps calling 110/90's Defenders when they are pre 1990? The "Defender" name wasn't used until then.

Why put the decals/placards on them, just a marketing scheme?

Call me nit-picky, but it irritates me. Not like sand in your crotch during a beach run, but like an ingrown hair on your knuckle.

I guess it would be like calling a Disco 2 a LR3. Maybe not that extreme but still not what it is.

What ever.
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  #2  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msggunny View Post
So since I have been hanging around Land Rovers for over a decade now I still cant seem to wrap my head around why everyone keeps calling 110/90's Defenders when they are pre 1990? The "Defender" name wasn't used until then.

Why put the decals/placards on them, just a marketing scheme?

Call me nit-picky, but it irritates me. Not like sand in your crotch during a beach run, but like an ingrown hair on your knuckle.

I guess it would be like calling a Disco 2 a LR3. Maybe not that extreme but still not what it is.

What ever.

People call LR3's Discovery 3's in the US as well.
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  #3  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tjfslaughter View Post
People call LR3's Discovery 3's in the US as well.
Ok, bad example as the line is called Discovery.

Well played sir, well played.
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  #4  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:21 AM
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People call Kim Kardashian a celebrity, which I don't get either.
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #5  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Probably because most of the world does not know what a 90 or 110 is. The name "Defender" has some brand recognition.

It does bother me when people call their Series 3 trucks a Defender.
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  #6  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:33 AM
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Hahaha!

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Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
People call Kim Kardashian a celebrity, which I don't get either.
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  #7  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
People call Kim Kardashian a celebrity, which I don't get either.
hahahaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90 View Post
Probably because most of the world does not know what a 90 or 110 is. The name "Defender" has some brand recognition.

It does bother me when people call their Series 3 trucks a Defender.
I agree
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  #8  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:40 AM
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Do you get more upset when they call it a Jeep, or when they call it a Defender?
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #9  
Old July 12th, 2012, 09:41 AM
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It's the same truck, my crew cab(1999) body came with the defender badge, I put it on an 1983 frame, how do I please the purists?
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  #10  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Do you get more upset when they call it a Jeep, or when they call it a Defender?
When i lived in Africa it wasnt an issue, everything there was a Jeep if it was a 4x4. Here I just smile and tell them its a Rover, and then it begins...

I get more annoyed when people ask if its a Toyota.

Kardashians, there is a true mystery. They arent even that hot, not saying I wouldnt but there are many others that I would rather do.

Im not a purist by any means, just curious as to why.

O, and 90/110 were different from the Defender models. Not by a lot, but still different.
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  #11  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Defender sounds slightly less pretentious than land rover.
I wonder what the differences were from the last year of 90/110 to the first year of Defender?
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  #12  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
People call Kim Kardashian a celebrity, which I don't get either.
lol...
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  #13  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaco1 View Post
Defender sounds slightly less pretentious than land rover.
I wonder what the differences were from the last year of 90/110 to the first year of Defender?
I know on the 90's the load space bulkhead and placement of gas tank from under the seat to the rear.

Im sure that there are other cosmetic things, but i think the chassis stayed the same.

From Wiki: (not that its 100% true or not)FWIW

"The biggest change to the Land Rover came in late 1990, when it became the Land Rover Defender, instead of the Land Rover Ninety or One Ten. This was because in 1989 the company had introduced the Discovery model, requiring the original Land Rover to acquire a name.[4] The Discovery also had a new turbodiesel engine. This was also loosely based on the existing 2.5-litre turbo unit, and was built on the same production line, but had a modern alloy cylinder head, improved turbocharging, intercooling and direct injection. It retained the block, crankshaft, main bearings, cambelt system, and other ancillaries as the Diesel Turbo. The breather system included an oil separator filter to remove oil from the air in the system, thus finally solving the Diesel Turbo's main weakness of re-breathing its own sump oil. The 200Tdi as the new engine was called produced 107 hp (80 kW) and 195 lbft (264 Nm) of torque, which was nearly a 25% improvement on the engine it replaced (although as installed in the Defender the engine was de-tuned slightly from its original Discovery 111 hp (83 kW) specification due to changes associated with the turbo position and exhaust routing).

This engine finally allowed the Defender to cruise comfortably at high speeds, as well as tow heavy loads speedily on hills while still being economical. In theory it only replaced the older Diesel Turbo engine in the range, with the other 4-cylinder engines (and the V8 petrol engine) still being available. However, the Tdi's combination of performance and economy meant that it took the vast majority of sales. Exceptions were the British Army and some commercial operators, who continued to buy vehicles with the 2.5-litre naturally aspirated diesel engine (in the Army's case, this was because the Tdi was unable to be fitted with a 24 volt generator). Small numbers of V8-engined Defenders were sold to users in countries with low fuel costs or who required as much power as possible (such as in Defenders used as fire engines or ambulances).

Along with the 200Tdi engine, the 127's name was changed to the Land Rover Defender 130. The wheelbase remained the same; the new figure was simply a tidying up exercise. More importantly, 130s were no longer built from "cut-and-shut" 110s, but had dedicated chassis built from scratch.

1994 saw another development of the Tdi engine, the 300Tdi. Although the 200Tdi had been a big step forward, it had been essentially a reworking of the old turbocharged diesel to accept a direct injection system. In contrast the 300Tdi was virtually new, despite the same capacity, and both the Defender and the Discovery had engines in the same state of tune, 111 bhp (83 kW), 195 lbfft (264 Nm).

Throughout the 1990s the vehicle attempted to climb more and more upmarket, while remaining true to its working roots. This trend was epitomised by limited-edition vehicles, such as the SV90 in 1992 with roll-over protection cage, alloy wheels and metallic paint and the 50th Anniversary 90 in 1998 equipped with automatic transmission, air conditioning and Range Rover 4.0-litre V8 engine.

A new variant was the Defender 110 Double Cab, featuring a Station Wagon style seating area, with an open pick up back. Although prototypes had been built in the Series days, it was not until the late 1990s that this vehicle finally reached production.

Land Rover South Africa offered a unique Defender during the period the group was owned by BMW. Between 1997 and 2000, the Defender 90 and 110 were offered with a BMW petrol engine alongside the normal Tdi engine. The engine was the BMW M52 2800 cc, straight-six, 24-valve engine as found in the BMW 328i, 528i, 728i and the Z3. Power and torque output for this engine was 142 kW (190 hp) @ 5500 rpm and 280 Nm (207 lbft) @ 3500 rpm. This option was offered due to a demand for a petrol-driven alternative to the diesel engine after production of the V8 Defender had ended. The vehicles were built at Rosslyn outside Pretoria. Total production for the 2.8i was 632 Defender 90s and 410 Defender 110s. Early models were not speed-restricted, but later models were limited to 160 km/h."
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  #14  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msggunny View Post
So since I have been hanging around Land Rovers for over a decade now I still cant seem to wrap my head around why everyone keeps calling 110/90's Defenders when they are pre 1990? The "Defender" name wasn't used until then.

Why put the decals/placards on them, just a marketing scheme?
It was a marketing scheme pure and simple. First there was the Land Rover. Then there was the Land Rover and Range Rover. Then they decided to make a car that was downscale from the Range Rover but had a modern SUV body. Instead of calling it a Discovery Rover they decided to call it a Land Rover Discovery.

The marketing folks decided it would be too confusing to have both Land Rover and Land Rover Discovery so the made up a name to separate the Land Rovers from the Land Rover Discovery.

Thus the Land Rover Ninety, Land Rover One Ten and Land Rover 127 models became Land Rover Defender or D90, D110 and D130 instead of Ninety, One Ten and 127. The marketing folks didn't like odd number model designations either.
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  #15  
Old July 12th, 2012, 11:07 AM
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As Richard's cut and paste from Wikipedia mentioned, Defender was a marketing choice when they started using Discovery, etc. It summed up the "aura and attitude" that Rover wanted to tie to the model and also alluded to it's military connection.

Nowadays, your average person out there (especially here in the US) not as diseased as most of us are with the Rover affliction don't really know the difference, but if told the name "Defender", they're more likely to recognize the familiar Series I/II/III//90/110/Defender family shape. Additionally, as Defenders have become something of a status symbol for many celebrity/wannabe types, the name "Defender" also drives a higher sale price. I expect that that is the biggest reason that the Defender moniker is so over/misused. Funny when you remember that they were designed for spartan utility that they've become "a car to be seen in". (I'm sure a Kardashian or one of their sycophantic remoras has a Defender that only gets driven to nightclubs.)

I've seen a bunch of very poor condition Series trucks marketed at ludicrous prices as Defenders over the past few years and have had to aggressively wave-off my aircrew with deployment savings burning a hole in their pockets.

In 1996 just before I joined then Navy, I test-drove a like-new, sub-4000-mile 95 green ST at a dealer in Denver. The salesguy mentioned that they'd had a bunch of D90s in perfect shape come back right away with buyers who really wanted the creature comforts of a Disco (and traded them in for Discos) once they had to live with them for a bit. I could have bought it for a song, but I passed as I had no idea what I was going to do with it while doing all the training, etc. I've kicked myself ever since.

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  #16  
Old July 12th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Having and using the parts manual almost daily, I have noticed no changes in the 90 model year from 89 other than the introduction of the 200 tdi and associated parts. Defender was strictly nomenclature as explained in the Wiki clip, not a different vehicle, as Teri Ann says above-just marketing.. Truth be known the build quality declined with the "defender" moniker and the BL years. That said I don't get the irriatation ? I guess my lack of understanding stems from having far more monumental things to express public irritation about.
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  #17  
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:39 PM
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It's even worse if you have a pre-1987 model 90/110. It's like there was the Series 3, then the Defender.

All the parts catalogs/vendors have a "Series" and a "Defender" section, but usually not a "110" or "90" for those in between. Try finding relays for the early 90/110; we're round where they are square. It's just not supported much at all. So I end up buying "Defender" parts, not "110" parts in some cases (though a lot of the difference is semantics and form factor really).

I avoid using "Defender", but sometimes it's what most people except the most knowledgeable relate to.
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  #18  
Old July 12th, 2012, 02:03 PM
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I've decided to quit referring to my Land Rover 86 as a Series I. That's a contrived name that was invented after the fact for the sole purpose of distinguishing it from the Series II.
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Old July 12th, 2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
That said I don't get the irriatation ? I guess my lack of understanding stems from having far more monumental things to express public irritation about.
You dont have to understand my irritation which is why a public forum is such a great place to ask stupid questions like this. Its not really an irritation at all unless you consider my reference to an ingrown hair on your knuckle as something to be really irritated about.

Just asking a question to see if anyone gives a shit, and apparently you do.
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Old July 12th, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Kijiji

I've seen series 1, 2, 2A and 3 called Defenders on Kijiji here. I don't like it, but I find it less annoying than having my D90 called a Jeep.
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