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  #41  
Old September 28th, 2005, 07:10 PM
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LOL, I have been meaning to post up but I keep forgeting about my own Rover!

Anyway, I sent the gears to Ashcroft, Ashcroft sent the gears back to the manufacturer, they sent the gears out to a lab to be checked out. The lab results were inconclusive, so knowone really knows why the gears broke. When I talked to Dave at Ashcroft he told me they have put all sales of the crawler gears on hold outside of the UK, he also told me they still ahven't had any problems with the gears in any of the vehicals they have installed them into other then mine, and they have been running them for a few months and a few thousand miles. So he gave me 3 options, one he would give me a full refund, 2 he would sell me a new T-case with a underdrive at a discount after subtracting the cost I have paid for the crawler gears, or 3 he sends me over another crawler box. I don't want the under drive, and I like to see things through, so they are going to be sending me a new crawler box. He said once I get it and install it to thrash the hell out of it and report back and that is exactly my plan! I think that this may have just been a fluke of some sort and dumb luck it happens to me I really like the crawl speed with these gear so I am praying that it was just a fluke and I can drive my 90 for at least a few months this year
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  #42  
Old September 28th, 2005, 09:14 PM
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Robert Dassler
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Well, I hope this one works out better for you...there's always Maxidrive if they crater again, though...but 6:1 is sweet! Just for giggles, I'd like to put an underdrive on my truck with the maxi drive gears in the t-box...wouldn't that be cool, 20 different forward gear combinations and an 11:1 low low range. Maybe someday...
Rob
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  #43  
Old September 29th, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Well now you have me spooked. I bought the crawler gears from Ashcroft this June (obviously before your troubles and Ashcroft's hold on sales), but have not had the chance to put them in my D-90 yet. I was about to do so when I heard about your mishap and thought it might be prudent to wait. I would not be a happy camper if the gears blow up on me as well (no doubt at the most inopportune moment). Is Ashcroft completely in the dark about the reasons for the failure of your gears? I will watch with interest any information you can provide about the reliability of the new set you will get to play with. The very best of luck to you (and hence to me as well...).
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  #44  
Old September 29th, 2005, 11:13 PM
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AH HAH! Dave (Ashcroft) told me he sold one set of gears to someone in the US and I knew it would be someone on the forum!

Well both Ashcroft and I are in the dark, they have the gears installed in compotition trucks that see about 1kmiles a month in the UK, these trucks have had the gears for I think Dave said 9 months now and I am the only one to have any problems. I really wish we could have pinned something down as the reason they failed but nothing pointed at anything. I plan to keep everyone updated, the last one nly lasted about 3 weeks and less then 400 miles so I should find out pretty fast if the new one will last.
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  #45  
Old September 30th, 2005, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
AH HAH! Dave (Ashcroft) told me he sold one set of gears to someone in the US and I knew it would be someone on the forum!

Well both Ashcroft and I are in the dark, they have the gears installed in compotition trucks that see about 1kmiles a month in the UK, these trucks have had the gears for I think Dave said 9 months now and I am the only one to have any problems. I really wish we could have pinned something down as the reason they failed but nothing pointed at anything. I plan to keep everyone updated, the last one nly lasted about 3 weeks and less then 400 miles so I should find out pretty fast if the new one will last.
With what I do for a living, unfortnantly I know a lot about sudstraight, heat treating and material imperfections. Simple things can throw a lot off. Like maybe the gears were not sand cooled (problem) or maybe they were but never reached the proper temperature. Most likely there were imperfections in the raw material that got your gears. Even something as small as a f-ed up radius on the gear lip can cause a problem. You said ashcroft got the gears tested. Well, if they were the test comes back reading like a government report. If there is not something radically evident, then you kind of have to make your own conclusions, based on the most likely cause. But, chances are, there is a most likely cause and they know what it is.

"Anyway, I sent the gears to Ashcroft, Ashcroft sent the gears back to the manufacturer, they sent the gears out to a lab to be checked out. The lab results were inconclusive, so knowone really knows why the gears broke. When I talked to Dave at Ashcroft he told me they have put all sales of the crawler gears on hold outside of the UK, he also told me they still ahven't had any problems with the gears in any of the vehicals they have installed them into other then mine, and they have been running them for a few months and a few thousand miles."

I guess what I am trying to say, is this is exactly what I would say to my customer when my product fails. I usually know why, but I am not going to admit anything. Sooo, Mike, you can sleep well, they know what happened and have most likely fixed it.
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  #46  
Old September 30th, 2005, 05:15 AM
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Mike it's all a big conspiracy, no one wants your truck up and running.
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  #47  
Old September 30th, 2005, 08:02 AM
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You know you could very well be right, I e-mailed him and he replied saying they are shipping it today. Thats about 2 weeks from when I talked to him and said they would send another. THe last T-case was whipped in the same week that I ordered it, so maybe they had to wait for another set of gears to be made?

Anyway when I had the gears I did some research on gear failure analysis and found this site http://www.elecon.com/gearworld/dat-gw-failure.html reading over my gears very closly matched up with a Bending fatigue breakage this PDF has a good pic of it http://www.emerson-ept.com/eptroot/p...ols/gears2.pdf

I sent Dave at Ashcroft this info but he never really responded to it, but it if you read what the first link says

Quote:
Bending fatigue breakage starts with a crack in the root section and progresses until the tooth or part of it breaks off. It can be recognized by a fatigue “eye” or focal point of the break. The break area itself usually shows signs of fretting corrosion and smooth “beach marks” that resemble patterns in the sand on a beach. A small area will probably have a rough, jagged look where the last portion of the tooth broke away. Most such failures result from excessive tooth loads, which cause repeated root stresses that eventually exceed the endurance limits of the material. Stress risers, such as notches in the root fillet, hob tears, inclusions, small heat treating cracks or grinding burns, may aggravate this condition. To remedy this condition, root fillets can be polished and shot-peened. Material should be properly heat-treated to minimize residual stresses. If redesign is necessary, use a full-fillet radius tooth, which is less prone to breakage and has greater capacity than a tooth with too small a fillet radius.
It gives reason for the failure and how too fix it. I kind of want to pull the bottom cover off the new T-case and have a look at the gears to see if they are made differently.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheki
Mike it's all a big conspiracy, no one wants your truck up and running.
I looked into this too but I could not gather enough evidence to convict anyone.
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  #48  
Old September 30th, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Robert Dassler
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Mike,
I think the new box will be fine. If they have that many running around with no problems and yours was the only failure, I would suspect a flaw in the material or a piece of debris got between the teeth and started a chain reaction...had a trainee once who put the wrong bolt in the wrong hole and cracked a gear...looked remarkably similar to the damage you had after more and more teeth came apart. Perhaps some flash came off of the casting or some grit got left behind after sand blasting and damaged a single tooth and started a chain reaction. I have heard through the grapevine that the company making the gears for Ashcroft is also an OEM supplier. I expect they have the engineering resources to design the gears properly and that your bad experience is an anomaly. I hope to see your truck at the Nat'l rally next year.
Rob
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  #49  
Old September 30th, 2005, 11:55 AM
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Well we may never know, all I know is that I started by loosing 1 tooth (from the way it felt when driving) and then the chain reaction started and a ton of teeth bit the dust. I am dieing to get it in and running! And it would be killer if I get it out to the rally next year, we'll see
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  #50  
Old September 30th, 2005, 02:48 PM
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Well Mike, I guess you and I will be the testers for Ashcroft in the U.S. for the time being. I really like the lower gearing this set will provide, so I'll cross my fingers and install them. I agree that with Ashcroft's reputation one would believe the gears should be at least as strong as stock and that your gears were just a very unfortunate fluke, but you never know. I reckon I'll be hanging onto my old gear set just in case. Hope to see ya out in the wilds sometime soon.
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  #51  
Old October 5th, 2005, 08:56 AM
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UPDATE!

It's in and it's back on the road! Another trip to Boston to pick it up and this time I didn't have to pay any import fees as it was a replacement. Spent from 2:30 to 9 pm getting it installed, it fought me every inch of the way, but I wanted to frive it so I got it all in. If anyone is thinking of changing a T-case it is a ton easier with 2 people! It is near impossible to get the t-case up and in line with the tranns output by yourself working on and unlevel not flat driveway.

And for whatever reason it threw a fit on the way to work, I was in the left lane on a very busy street and I just shifted into third when everything dies! I had to pull onto the center median to get out of traffics way. The ignition switch was acting up and it took some careful baning on the dash and playing with some wires and I was back on my way. It's funny, I ran out of gas at the same spot after the last t-case install. Oh and when the headlights ar switched on the temp gauge jumps up 10 degrees, and a bunch of the indicator lights come on half way. I think it's time I clean up some grounds
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  #52  
Old October 5th, 2005, 09:57 AM
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You're the man Mike! congrats on getting that beast back on the road. Keep us updated on it.
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  #53  
Old October 5th, 2005, 09:57 AM
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And now let the betting begin

Ok so how long before Mike is hip deep in mud again??
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  #54  
Old October 5th, 2005, 10:01 AM
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good to hear it Mike!! Good luck with the new case, hope all goes better than previous ones.
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  #55  
Old October 5th, 2005, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flippedrover
Ok so how long before Mike is hip deep in mud again??
When's MAR again?
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  #56  
Old October 5th, 2005, 12:49 PM
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LOL, Thanks guys! I need to do some rust removal and some wiring fixe really before I hit any trails and get stuck in the mud.
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  #57  
Old October 5th, 2005, 02:15 PM
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Did you say mud? You didn't learn yet?
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  #58  
Old October 5th, 2005, 02:19 PM
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Yes and No I didn't , but it's not the mud, it's the water! As long as I stay out of stuff over 2 feet deep i should be good.
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  #59  
Old October 5th, 2005, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
UPDATE!

It's in and it's back on the road! Another trip to Boston to pick it up and this time I didn't have to pay any import fees as it was a replacement. Spent from 2:30 to 9 pm getting it installed, it fought me every inch of the way, but I wanted to frive it so I got it all in. If anyone is thinking of changing a T-case it is a ton easier with 2 people! It is near impossible to get the t-case up and in line with the tranns output by yourself working on and unlevel not flat driveway.

And for whatever reason it threw a fit on the way to work, I was in the left lane on a very busy street and I just shifted into third when everything dies! I had to pull onto the center median to get out of traffics way. The ignition switch was acting up and it took some careful baning on the dash and playing with some wires and I was back on my way. It's funny, I ran out of gas at the same spot after the last t-case install. Oh and when the headlights ar switched on the temp gauge jumps up 10 degrees, and a bunch of the indicator lights come on half way. I think it's time I clean up some grounds

Congrats Mike!

I know you have the crawler box, is that different from an underdrive? Please educate me.... Thanks!
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  #60  
Old October 5th, 2005, 03:20 PM
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The crawler box is just different gearing in the T-case while the underdrive is bolted to the back of the T-case on the PTO output. THe crawler box has a low range of about 6 to 1 the underdrive has a low range of 8 to 1, stock the t-case has about 3.2 to 1. The underdrive can be turned on and off, so you have stock gearing or real low, it can also be used in high range, while the crawler box only has 1 low range. But the crawler box costs allot less and it leaves the PTO output open.
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