V8 vs. 300TDI/TD5 - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 5th, 2008, 07:19 AM
JBOD77
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V8 vs. 300TDI/TD5

Stuck in a daydreaming mode about an engine replacement. Would love to go diesel when the time comes. Vs. the V8 would a 300TDI be faster? Can you use a TD5? I know there are issues with service with the TD5 but what in particular? How much roughly would it cost to swap th V8 for one of these? '95 ST with R380.
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  #2  
Old June 5th, 2008, 02:41 PM
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Jamie Austin
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A Tdi would be the easiest route, change the engine frame mounts,gearbox (or at least the bellhousing and input shaft) and sort the electrics out (the EFI V8 has an ECU that controlls a lot of stuff, you can rip that out and install Tdi looms which are fairly simple.

however, a Tdi (112bhp) will never be as "fast" as a V8 (although it'll make up time by not having to stop at a gas station as often as a V8! LOL)

you can easily tweak a Tdi to give 130~140bhp, and more torque than standard (probably about the same as the 3.9 V8).

a Td5, 122bhp in stock form, needs a totally different bulkhead loom (and rear chassis loom, although it's easy to convert one if you're not bothered about "plug and play", as it runs the rear tank pump)

easiest way to get a Td5 running to to get the whole bulkhead loom, which runs the lights/stereo/alarm etc.

over here (UK) it's easy to get an ECU modified so that you don't need to run the 10AS alarm unit (unless you want security... i'm leaving it in on my project110 Td5)

engine is easily chip-able to near 200bhp, and there is a VNT turbo hovering on the horizon to give much better drivability (low end torque) that will make the engine blow the 3.9's into the dust!
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  #3  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBOD77
Stuck in a daydreaming mode about an engine replacement. Would love to go diesel when the time comes. Vs. the V8 would a 300TDI be faster? Can you use a TD5? I know there are issues with service with the TD5 but what in particular? How much roughly would it cost to swap th V8 for one of these? '95 ST with R380.
Love the avatar.

I get heat for this all the time, but I would bet cash that a 300TDi with a 5 speed is faster than the 3.9 from 0-40. 3.9 takes it from 40 to whatever. Not that it's really worth bragging rights as the 3.9 is anemic.

Find one and drive it before you get serious, the 300 is no powerhouse, but as reliable as it gets.
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  #4  
Old June 6th, 2008, 08:02 AM
JBOD77
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Jonathan
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any input on the TD5? pros/ cons? I know in the community that the 300TDi is the popular choice, torque, reliability, etc but I don't ever really hear to much about the TD5 other service/reliability issues but I've not really heard to many particulars.
Buck- the avatar is just one more little thing to try to protect the future of the country. More people need to really look at things and realize the troubled direction we're headed in. (Not the George W. was a winner or anything)

PS--I'm not trying to raise ANY kind of political discussion, they always seem to go nowhere, Just kinda babbling early in the morning.
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Old June 6th, 2008, 02:27 PM
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no replacement for displacement.
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Old June 6th, 2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4
no replacement for displacement.
If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.


Ohh look, my rhyme has about as much to do with this conversation as yours!
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  #7  
Old June 6th, 2008, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Love the avatar.

I get heat for this all the time, but I would bet cash that a 300TDi with a 5 speed is faster than the 3.9 from 0-40. 3.9 takes it from 40 to whatever. Not that it's really worth bragging rights as the 3.9 is anemic.

Find one and drive it before you get serious, the 300 is no powerhouse, but as reliable as it gets.



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  #8  
Old June 6th, 2008, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by snuffer
Good to see your debate skills are at least improving.
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  #9  
Old June 7th, 2008, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Love the avatar.

I get heat for this all the time, but I would bet cash that a 300TDi with a 5 speed is faster than the 3.9 from 0-40. 3.9 takes it from 40 to whatever. Not that it's really worth bragging rights as the 3.9 is anemic.

Find one and drive it before you get serious, the 300 is no powerhouse, but as reliable as it gets.


I've had both engines in the past.... 3.9 90 with the LT85 5 speed manual and tweeked 300Tdi with R380...

the V8 is faster; period.
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  #10  
Old June 7th, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim
I've had both engines in the past.... 3.9 90 with the LT85 5 speed manual and tweeked 300Tdi with R380...

the V8 is faster; period.
I am judging only from a seat of the pants feel, both lifted trucks. But the 300 definently took off faster, but the 3.9 with more HP took it easily after 40mph. If you stop to think about it for a second, the tweaked 300 puts out about the same torque as the 3.9. But accesses that torque much lower on the powerband. It is logical that it would be faster off the line and up to a point.

The test is a little unfair as my 300 has the stock 1.4 behind it and the 3.9 had the 1.2 behind it. But I still stand by my opinion that the 300 is faster to 40. Maybe you need to turn a few screws a little farther.

Find someone with a 3.9 and 40's and I will be more than happy to race, as long as we stop right at 40!
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  #11  
Old June 8th, 2008, 05:04 AM
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Jamie Austin
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Ahh.... yes, with the 1.2:1 on the V8, that'll definately slow things down. mine had the 1.4, same as my Tdi, so was more lower geared. that did make a difference. lots of fun too! would easily break traction on tarmax on roundabouts.. wooohoo!!
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  #12  
Old June 10th, 2008, 01:59 AM
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I imagine a TD5 would likely set you back a good deal more than a 300TDi -- both for the hardware and the installation. Just something to consider.
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  #13  
Old June 12th, 2008, 05:09 PM
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Jamie Austin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smenzel
I imagine a TD5 would likely set you back a good deal more than a 300TDi -- both for the hardware and the installation. Just something to consider.
over here in the UK, a complete ex defender Td5 engine is between 1000 and 2000 (for an exceptional one).

i just paid 1650 for a 2004 with 38000 miles on it, complete from radiator to clutch, engine loom & ECU.

i'm currently forward planning for my next project (when i've finished building this 110) which, when funds allow, will be a soft top ex military 90, i'll shoehorn a Td5 into that, so i'm picking up bits as-and-when i find them. just bought a defender Td5 engine loom on ebay for 9.99 and a complete dash loom (the whole bulkhead loom this is) for 20, so if you shop around the stuff is out there.
you'll also need a 10AS alarm unit (not sure if the NAS V8's use the same one... a green box behind the dash, although you can get the ECU's tweeked so they don't need them, but you then lose your alarm and immobiliser)

on top of this, you'll need the Td5 in-tank pump, which i'm 99% sure will fit straight into the NAS plastic tank (the Td5 90/110's have the same kind of plastic tank), and the fuel pipes, and possibly the rear chassis harness (although you could just run some cables down for the pump feed and fuel level guage)

you'll need (if you want to do it the whole 9 yards) the electronic speedo and other guages, a complete dash "pod" usually goes for about 30~50 on ebay.

exhaust downpipe, it can be grafted onto the V8 system i'd think quite easily.


R380 with Td5 bellhousing, couple of chassis engine mounts, job's a good-un!
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  #14  
Old June 12th, 2008, 05:27 PM
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geez from the sounds of it I'm likeley to be better off just going for a 300tdi. sounds like parts AND advice will be more readily available and less expensive.... hmmmmmm
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  #15  
Old June 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBOD77
geez from the sounds of it I'm likeley to be better off just going for a 300tdi. sounds like parts AND advice will be more readily available and less expensive.... hmmmmmm
You said it!
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  #16  
Old June 13th, 2008, 02:52 AM
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Jamie Austin
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Nah, where's your sense of adventure?


It's really not that complicated, almost plug & play. if you get the original ECU that went with the engine and alarm unit, then there's no messing with nanocom/autologic plug in computers to set it all up (and if you do need to do that, then it only takes 5 minutes anywya)

and with a decent ECU map, you'll be getting just shy of 200bhp from it. add a nice VNT turbo and you'll have lots of low end torque, masses of it!

more than you'll ever get from a V8 (rover V8 that is....well, certainly without spending the same amount as your house costs)
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  #17  
Old June 13th, 2008, 10:20 AM
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I've got the Td5 too.. It's in the wifes Disco. Giving me fits right now. It won't start, A Buddy with a T4 is coming up this week to help troubleshoot.

Fits tight in a D1 engine bay but it fits. In the end I went with an electric fan. cut 2" (vertically) off the exhaust down pipe and the exhaust bolted right up

VNT Turbo? My Wife? Nahhhh

The 5.0 Rover motor sitting in the shop for my other Disco cost about the same as the complete TD5 set up. dollar for dollar i'm betting the TD5 will out perform it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim
Nah, where's your sense of adventure?


It's really not that complicated, almost plug & play. if you get the original ECU that went with the engine and alarm unit, then there's no messing with nanocom/autologic plug in computers to set it all up (and if you do need to do that, then it only takes 5 minutes anywya)

and with a decent ECU map, you'll be getting just shy of 200bhp from it. add a nice VNT turbo and you'll have lots of low end torque, masses of it!

more than you'll ever get from a V8 (rover V8 that is....well, certainly without spending the same amount as your house costs)
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