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  #41  
Old September 5th, 2011, 08:35 PM
dchapman
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Wolf,
You're a retard.

Doug,
You're still full of shit.

I'm traveling right now and I'm posting from my iPhone. Once I get home (about 3 or 4am Wednesday) I'll post my response when I can. In the mean time, how about posting that "lease" with Willow Hill for the members to see. I'm sure that will not be a problem for you as I'm sure it exists.
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  #42  
Old September 5th, 2011, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
Wolf,
You're a retard.

Doug,
You're still full of shit.

I'm traveling right now and I'm posting from my iPhone. Once I get home (about 3 or 4am Wednesday) I'll post my response when I can. In the mean time, how about posting that "lease" with Willow Hill for the members to see. I'm sure that will not be a problem for you as I'm sure it exists.
We can't wait.

Dan, your issue is that no one is allowed to have an opinion except for you. If anyone voices something other than what you believe in your fantasy world to be true, then you hide behind your keyboard and attack them. Most people don't even bother posting a response to you for fear of being attacked. But a lot of people share the same opinion: You are an asshole that hides behind his keyboard, but are actually a decent guy in person. I can't wait to meet you on on the trail someday, but in the meantime....

If you actually spent the time to think before posting your garbage attacking people and shitting on other threads you might actually have some valuable input. You can have an opinion and back it up with facts, which you have done on occasion, but the second you attack people personally and call them names like we are in middle school you lose all credibility.

Flame on, I won't respond to your hate, which you will spew....
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  #43  
Old September 5th, 2011, 10:51 PM
dchapman
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I just gained access to a PC for a minute.

Wolf,
Are you an idiot or are you just dumb?

I "hide behind a computer", yet I'm a "nice guy in person"... You fucking retard. Which is it you inbred fuck? Do I hide, or do I get out and meet people? You make about an much sense as Steve Young after drinking a few Mike's Hard Lemonades.

Doug,
I'll try to at least touch on all these issues here quickly. But my time is limited right now.


Quote:
Dan responding to you is always a double edged sword but here goes.
Why would that be? If you address me, or any of the membership openly and honestly, whats the worry?
Quote:
I was @ a party on Saturday where this email string was brought up to me by most of the guys there because they are all members.
You have time to socialize? I thought you were a very busy man?

Quote:
While I have never attended one of these it is my understanding that this is an annual dinner where the annual financial report is discussed with the membership and the annual election of board members/officers is held. This has always been an "expense" for the club as the dinner is meant to be an enticement for members to attend in mid to late February in order to have as many present as possible. To my knowledge for the entire existence of the club this event has never been meant to be a money making meeting-in the past some boards have made it an extravagent event and the amount of money spent was stagering but that was long ago.
I would agree with 99% of what you have said.

However, lets look at this realistically.

I am the President of an association in which serves my profession. We too have a gathering such as this once a year, but ours is more of a ladies night type event. It's an event we are able to bring our wives to and kind of put business to the side for one night and have fun. I know that is not what the ROAV ABM is all about, but we too look at this night as an expense rather than a profitable endeavor for our association.

Last year our association took a hit on our Ladies Night event to the tune of about $4,000. Although we have over 3/4 of a Million in cash and investments, $4,000 is still $4,000. At some point we have to look forward and ask ourselves when is enough, enough. We can't, as an association, be handing out $4,000 at a time on such this like this, even if it is barley a dent in our overall net worth. To me, $4,000 is a bit excessive so I, as the President, put together a committee to determine if Ladies Night was still a good idea and beneficial to our association. I don't think I have to tell you what the findings of our members was.

I hope you get what I'm saying here, Doug. I am the President of our association. I did not have to form this committee. But I left it in the hands of our members. Our members gave me the input I needed to make a decision on our Ladies Night event. Now the finger cannot be pointed at me just in case there was someone who disaggregated with the decision that was made. The decision was mad by the membership.

In 2008 ROAV was belly up. Old news, I know. But there was still a 2009 ABM in which ROAV lost more money on. This was money ROAV did not have. But Chuck and Christina and who ever else was involved went ahead with the ABM anyway and spent even more money.

I know and fully understand a few things have changed since 2008. I know ROAV has a little more cash than what they did back in 2009. But I really do not think that it's unreasonable to make mention that things have got to change. You claim that ROAV has over $20k in the bank now even though the Gear Box News letter states otherwise. But at what point do you think policy should change? Okay, ROAV traditionally always lost money on the ABM, and ROAV still views the ABM as an expense. But given the history of the club over the last 4-years, do you honestly that is a wise investment for the club? What do your members think? Or have you ever thought to even ask them?

You also mention that sometime in the past ROAV has hosted "extravagant" ABM's. I know what you're getting at and we even talked about this on the phone. You heard this story from John Keeney. I heard it from him to, and I took John's word for it at the time. But then I stopped to think about it. The extravagant ABM you're referring to was around 2004 or so when Robert Davis was President. The rumor was that Robert spent over $14,000 of ROAV's money on the ABM. But just stop and think about that for a minute. $14,000 is a lot of money. How many people go to the ABM's? 50? 100? Just for shits-and-giggles, lets say 150 people showed up to the ABM in 2004. We both no there were not 150 people there, but lets act like there was. That would be $93.00 per person. What were these motherfuckers eating at the ABM, Kobe Beef? Were they sucking down Johnny Walker like table water? Come on, you do not believe for a minute that $14,000 was spent on an ABM....

Quote:
At this elected board's first meeting in March it was made clear that Willow Hill had already been locked down/lease signed for MAR but because the family had another 160 acre tract of land they were offering the club to develop a trail network on for use into the forseable future-ie the 2010 board thought they had found a home for the event for the long term and signed a lease for 2011. The family member who was our contact person had some health issues this spring that ended up requiring surgery so the club didn't get to see that property until the first week of June.
First of all, I don't believe for a minute there is a lease. I hope you can prove me wrong.

Second of all, who in their right mind would sign a lease without first seeing the property in which they were signing a lease for? Chuck?

Third of all, of the land owner could not hold up to his end of the bargain, the lease should be null and void.

You stupid motherfuckers did not learn your lesson the first time when the contract was signed with Oakridge Estate. This is the exact same way Oakridge came about. Mike McCaig has had some secret handshake with this guy who owns the Willow Hill Property. McCaig wants the MAR event to take place here so that's that. In 2008 an officers wife wanted the MAR event at Oakridge, so there was a handshake made and that too was a done deal - even though ROAV already had a promissory letter from the Cove for the same event. You people are letting one person run the club for everyone and it's going to bite you right in the ass again.

Tell everyone here, for the record, Doug, that you feel Willow Hill is a good spot for MAR this year! Better yet, lets see the meeting minutes where this was discussed and the reasoning all of this came to be!!!

Quote:
There was no spring Rally planned so this years board unanimously agreed to go back to the Cove @ that first meeting and just had to iron out a weekend with Willis @ the Cove. The board selected a weekend and went to lock into that with the Cove but the management was away in the Dominican Republic for 10days so the event couldn't be announced/publicised until they returned. The Cove requires a liability policy for a club to hold an event @ their facility. ROAV has a master policy in place and the rider for each event costs and additional $835 or so. This said the only expenditure for the event were Tshirts and this insurance rider. The event would have needed 50+ trucks to have been "profitable". The club doesn't have a mission statement that it is meant to make a proffit but the intent is to try to be as close to break even as possible on these smaller events. ROAV events other than MAR have historically not had that many trucks. For years the spring and summer rallys haven't had attendence that came close to covering what the insurance costs have been. The possible exception to that was the event @ Montebello last year.
You're pulling excuses out of your ass, Doug.

First, 10-days would not have made the event. You guys drug your feet far too long to make shit happen. Even if Willis and Daniel were in town and ready and able to sign a contract for the Spring Rally, an additional 10-days would not have made a difference. You people have got to get the word out and let the membership know whats going on. You guys never did this.

Furthermore, you jackasses were too worried about getting John Tackley involved again even AFTER the membership voted his fat ass out of there. You guys put his dumbass on a committee at your very first meeting for gods sake! This is what sparked Gus to leave ROAV, and this is what sparked Lucky 8 and I to host a Rausch Creek event. No, we did not intentionally do the Rausch Creek event the same weekend as the Spring Rally, but ROAV never communicated to the membership as to what the fuck was going on in the first place.

Quote:
The Catlett family advised the club the week of June 20th (we had been pushing to have a work/trail building weekend on the new parcel) that this tract of land would not be available to the club afterall as the family member who owned it had sought legal counsel concerning liability and his atty told him no release would fully cover him from a lawsuit should someone get hurt. So the week of 4th of July weekend the board was advised that we don't have this 160 acre parcel to develop into this years trail network. Mike McCaig looked @ several different parcels and talked to lots of people in the area networking looking for somehing suitable. In the end there are the acreage adjacent to last years mud bog and a large parcel with what Mike McCaig and Mike Boggs described as a considerable trail network on the Albemarle side of the James. I haven't seen this and hope to this coming weekend during the scheduled work weekend mentioned earlier in this thread.
Blah blah blah... You have not even seen this place and you're defending it.

How many ROAV officers have actually seen this place? 1? Is Mike McCaig the only one who have seen this property?


Quote:
Your next statement is that the Summer event @ Rausch lost money. Rausch doesn't require that a club have an insurance rider so the only expense for this event were Tshirts which sold out. I'm certain you are wrong that this event was an expense for the club.
LOL, I though the Summer Rally was your baby? Weren't you, Doug, the one who put this all together? Weren't you the one who took care of all the planning for the Summer Rally? But you're unclear as to if the Summer Rally made any money?

Unbelievable.

Quote:
This is a club with a small goup of volunteers doing what they can. The vast majority of the membership want to contribute no time and only want to attend events-I get that. Yes I am one of the seven volunteers until February. The way I perceive the job is to try and make sure events will be where and how I and my friends would want them (ie the membership). Last years event shut down the Pearls pond trail network after someone (we all know who) decided to ignore well marked boundaries and went way out of bounds blowing past the private land owners home @ 7am. That was the straw that broke the camels back for that relationship and everyone in attendence including myself suffered the consequences of that trail network being closed.
Shut the fuck up, Doug. Jordan riding up past Adamson's farm house had nothing at all to do with why Pearls Pond was shut down. Drew Sabota, Tom Bryon, John White, Mike Crandall, Mike Widner, Trevor Combs, and probably one or two more that I can't remember right now (maybe Paul Uellen??), were standing at the base of the hill of Adamson's house when he walked down to chat. Adamson was "wicked pissed" as they recall it. ROAV did not have permission to be on his property at all. ROAV went to Adamson's son to get the permission while Adamson was out of town in England or something. Adamson was not supposed to be there that weekend, but guess what..... Chuck fucked up on this one! But you want to blame Jordan for getting the property closed. Unbelievable, Doug. Just unbelievable.

Think about it for about 30-seconds, Doug. The log bridge fell in on the East side of the property. this was the ONLY way in and the only way out of those trails. It was one way in, and one way out. Once the bridge fell in, the only way off the Pearls Pond property was to drive out the main driveway.

Now, why the fuck would Mr. Adamson be pissed off over Jordan exiting the property trough his driveway after the only other way out of the property was impassible? Why, Doug? You want to know why?? Because no one should have been on that property in the first place.

But lets just blame Jordan. That's easy. Lets not even ask the guys who were there when Mr. Adamson came storming down that hill to see what the fuck was going on at his property....


Quote:
As far as financials go the balance in the clubs account was around 21k @ the annual business meeting back in February and was still pretty much the same up until the annual liability policy premium was paid in late July which was also in the $850 range. So the bank acct balance has remained static right @ the $20-21k mark.
First, your accounting records do not match what was reported in the ROAV Gear Box newsletter. I'm not surprised, though.

Second, I told John Keeney several months ago that he should shop around for insurance rates for ROAV.
John never acknowledged me. At the same time I got a quote for Justin at Lucky 8 for the same type insurance and it was only $250.00 a year. I would be happy to go over the details with anyone who wants to listen. But I have not gotten that phone call yet.

Quote:
The accounting firm who waded through the years of records and who prepared the Non-profit filing with the IRS said the club was fine. Like thousands of non-profit entities across the country where leadership or management changes annually ROAV had not sent in their Non-proffit filing to the iRS in years. This is apparently akin to a post card but as you point out had not be filed in a very long time. The accounting firm chosen handled all of this for the club for free. The IRS has acknowledged receipt of the clubs non-proffit status filing so life moves on. One person keeps the clubs check book and nothing is spent unless its voted on, and to date less has been spent than deposited.
Okay. Fair enough. Now post the rest of the story.

You think the IRS is going to say, "oh, no problem. We understand. We'll just go back over the last 10-years and wipe all these back taxes clean. Just for you".

Get real, Doug.

I'm sure the accountant did in fact say "no problem". That does not change the fact that ROAV owes the Fed's some money.

Yet, with even all this going on, ROAV has still not gotten their 501 status.....

Quote:
As far as communication with the membership goes I would agree it has been lax this year, seemingly I'm usually the one that has come forward with information-not sure why that has been the case. Back in May the board discussed and voted on/approved a motion to post the annual financial statement and board meeting minutes (these are conf calls) on the clubs website for the membership to read if they so desired. The intent was transparency. These have not been posted. I don't know if its because the information hasn't been given to Tommy the web master or if he hasn't been able to make the time to post them.
You don't seen to know too much about what's going on, do you?

How about this, why don't you take the lead on this and make shit happen? Why don't you gather up all these documents and get them posted online.

Need help scanning them and getting them online? Send them to me and I'll do it for you. I have a $20k scanner here that will scan then in about 10-minutes, put them into PDF files, and burn them to disks. I'll even post them on the ROAV website for you; or make enough copies of a CD for all the members who want one.

What are you waiting for?

Quote:
As far as your satement that the board can't get along well enough to make decisions, thats completely inaccurate. The issues have been:
1) finding out after being elected that tax exempt staus had been botched by prior boards so withing 2 weeks of finding this out everything was turned over to an accounting firm that specializes in non-proffits.
So why not form a committee to handle this? ROAV has 240 members, I'm sure you could get a 2 or 3 to take care of this.

Quote:
2) the trail issue from last years event appeared to have been overcome but we had to wait for the family to grant us access.
Bullshit. There are other properties in the State that could have handled the MAR event. This problem could have been resolved in a day over the telephone. But ROAV was focused on dealing with Willow Hill.

For some reason it's not a big problem to deal with Willow Hill, but the 10-days it took to get the Cove lined up was a huge issue....
Quote:
3) the Spring event was planned quickly and would have been announced 10 days earlier except for the Coves ownership not being available for confirmation- we have asked The Cove to confirm that same weekend for a spring event for 2012 so it can be announced well in advance.
Good god... Why the fuck would you make plans for next years Board of Directors? Why not let the 2012 BOD's do what THEY want to do....like ask the membership their opinions?

Quote:
3) Rausch/Summer event was something I did 100% on my own-I just asked justin and Trevor to be there as trail guides since I hadn't been to the park. Justin took his 90 swimming and Randy and Trevor did all the trail guiding.
I am 100% responsible for this event- attendence was 20 some odd trucks and we had a great time split into two groups on the trails. The only gripe I heard was that there weren't enough shirts ordered over the registration numbers.
I though Justin and Trevor were sponsors?

And 20 trucks? Is the ROAV books going to reflect this and your $20 event fee? It was my understand most of the trucks there were with Ed's group.

Quote:
4) planning for the MAR event and readying trails- permit is handled, generator rented, port a johns rented, tent rental,tables chairs etc proposals out, pa syatem handled, onsite cellular repeater truck tenatively lined up. Pre-registration up 3 weeks prior to last year.
Hows that pre-registration going for y'all?

Quote:
One of the things I was surprised to find out was that last year the Catlett family (land onwers/host) took the money paid to them by the club and scheduled and paid the bands that played and a number of other things like loads of gravel etc.
Wait. What?? ROAV paid to use the Willow Hill property?????

Quote:
I appreciate your bringing your love for the ROAV club to me personaly as your whipping post with your ever eloquent style. While we have never personally met, I continue to look forward to that day. I am a member who volunteered my time for 12 mos after enjoying the club for nearly two decades without ever contributing before. I am certain I have less time to spare than most having two careers,two teenagers, two homes to maintain, and a farm to deal with but I am giving as much time as I can because it seemed like the right thing to do to give back to a club that I have enjoyed being a member of since 1994. Given my own time limitation perhaps I wasn't the best candidate for a board member but only 9 people volunteered to fill the 7 positions-I'm sorry you feel I dragging my feet. I understand Trevors and others frustration about scheduling time off and having to make a decision based on not much information. Not having seen these new trail networks I personaly can't comment on them. I understand that the perception is that the club leadership didn't listen to commentary after last years event- hopefully this response sheds some light on that perception.
Poor, poor Doug. Lets have a pity party. Doug signed up for a job but now wants to cry about it. I hope they at least mention it in his obituary one day.
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  #44  
Old September 5th, 2011, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
Last year our association took a hit on our Ladies Night event to the tune of about $4,000. As President, I had to spend this much money because I have a hard time getting laid otherwise, because I have a mediocre penis and women don't like me because I generally wear loafers and then belittle them verbally like I do to Wolf and Doug.
Dan:

I'm very sorry to hear this, particularly on the penis thing. Keep your chin up...it'll happen for you sooner or later.
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  #45  
Old September 6th, 2011, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I just gained access to a PC for a minute.


How many ROAV officers have actually seen this place? 1? Is Mike McCaig the only one who have seen this property?




LOL, I though the Summer Rally was your baby? Weren't you, Doug, the one who put this all together? Weren't you the one who took care of all the planning for the Summer Rally? But you're unclear as to if the Summer Rally made any money?


Shut the fuck up, Doug. Jordan riding up past Adamson's farm house had nothing at all to do with why Pearls Pond was shut down. Drew Sabota, Tom Bryon, John White, Mike Crandall, Mike Widner, Trevor Combs, and probably one or two more that I can't remember right now (maybe Paul Uellen??), were standing at the base of the hill of Adamson's house when he walked down to chat. Adamson was "wicked pissed" as they recall it. ROAV did not have permission to be on his property at all. ROAV went to Adamson's son to get the permission while Adamson was out of town in England or something. Adamson was not supposed to be there that weekend, but guess what..... Chuck fucked up on this one! But you want to blame Jordan for getting the property closed. Unbelievable, Doug. Just unbelievable.

Think about it for about 30-seconds, Doug. The log bridge fell in on the East side of the property. this was the ONLY way in and the only way out of those trails. It was one way in, and one way out. Once the bridge fell in, the only way off the Pearls Pond property was to drive out the main driveway.

Now, why the fuck would Mr. Adamson be pissed off over Jordan exiting the property trough his driveway after the only other way out of the property was impassible? Why, Doug? You want to know why?? Because no one should have been on that property in the first place.

But lets just blame Jordan. That's easy. Lets not even ask the guys who were there when Mr. Adamson came storming down that hill to see what the fuck was going on at his property....




First, your accounting records do not match what was reported in the ROAV Gear Box newsletter. I'm not surprised, though.

Second, I told John Keeney several months ago that he should shop around for insurance rates for ROAV.
John never acknowledged me. At the same time I got a quote for Justin at Lucky 8 for the same type insurance and it was only $250.00 a year. I would be happy to go over the details with anyone who wants to listen. But I have not gotten that phone call yet.



Okay. Fair enough. Now post the rest of the story.

You think the IRS is going to say, "oh, no problem. We understand. We'll just go back over the last 10-years and wipe all these back taxes clean. Just for you".

Get real, Doug.

I'm sure the accountant did in fact say "no problem". That does not change the fact that ROAV owes the Fed's some money.

Yet, with even all this going on, ROAV has still not gotten their 501 status.....



You don't seen to know too much about what's going on, do you?

How about this, why don't you take the lead on this and make shit happen? Why don't you gather up all these documents and get them posted online.

Need help scanning them and getting them online? Send them to me and I'll do it for you. I have a $20k scanner here that will scan then in about 10-minutes, put them into PDF files, and burn them to disks. I'll even post them on the ROAV website for you; or make enough copies of a CD for all the members who want one.

What are you waiting for?



So why not form a committee to handle this? ROAV has 240 members, I'm sure you could get a 2 or 3 to take care of this.



Bullshit. There are other properties in the State that could have handled the MAR event. This problem could have been resolved in a day over the telephone. But ROAV was focused on dealing with Willow Hill.




Good god... Why the fuck would you make plans for next years Board of Directors? Why not let the 2012 BOD's do what THEY want to do....like ask the membership their opinions?



I though Justin and Trevor were sponsors?

And 20 trucks? Is the ROAV books going to reflect this and your $20 event fee?



Wait. What?? ROAV paid to use the Willow Hill property?????


I guess the difference here Dan is I have nothing to prove, I'll give to the club as I am able but I certainly don't feel like working as a volunteer for 2011 makes me responsible for any issues you have with the club for the past decade. You apparently do-not sure how you rationalize that. John gives a verbal accounting of the bank balance @ the begining of each conf call and the balance has consistently been in the range stated.I have missed three calls but again the meetings I have made the balance has been fairly constant.

I don't know who made it out there the weekend before the hurricane- I didn't. I'm not defending anything just stating what was said. Boggs apparently gps mapped the entire trail network and we are waiting for that map.

Yes I handled the Summer Rally- the only budget item approved were tshirts and decals and as stated John said we sold out. The registration was strickly for a shirt and to help give the campground an idea of attendence. Justin and Trevor weren't asked for any sponsorship just to attend and trail guide.
We camped with Eds group but during the day they wheeled by themselves. We had a handfull of trucks show up that handn't registered. So yes the number was 20 some odd trucks and yes the event should have been a negligible profit for the club just because the price charged for a tshirt was slightly higher than production and 2day shipping cost.

Yes ROAV paid for the Willow Hill property in 2010. Yes Mr Catlett spent a small fortune with having his atty make edits before signing it. No I don't have nor have I seen this years lease. It was never an issue for discussion for this years board as it was already handled.

As far as why Pearls Pond was closed last year goes. There's your version and then there's what Sr told my parents-but we already had that conversation. Mr Adamson was in Richmond and came to Buckingham after his daughter called because of the early morning drive by. His daughter and now ex son in law were @ the property so Stuart could attend MAR so it was known throughout the family that permission had been given. Discussions were had this year with Sr directly about possibly using that property after the promissed Catlett property dropped out and Sr defered the decison to his children just like he did last year and we decided to not pursue it any further.

I'd be very interested to hear what insurance coverage you found. We made several calls earlier this year and found there is pretty much only a single company underwriting this type of policy in the region and not many agents representing to company. The cost is the clubs largest re-occuring expense and if coverage is anywhere near similar that would be a great find.
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  #46  
Old September 6th, 2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind

Dan:

I'm very sorry to hear this, particularly on the penis thing. Keep your chin up...it'll happen for you sooner or later.
I know this hurts your household income. Your mom, wife and daughters were upset, too. I'll really miss your daughters; your wife, not so much.
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  #47  
Old September 6th, 2011, 08:10 AM
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I know this hurts your household income. Your mom, wife and daughters were upset, too. I'll really miss your daughters; your wife, not so much.
Hmmm...no daughters or such, but I do have a dog. So that would make sense that you would miss her, seems more up your alley.

What was that nickname you used to have? Oh yes, JPND. "Just Porked the Neighbors Dog".
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Old September 6th, 2011, 08:18 AM
dchapman
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Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Doug,
I guess all those guys were lying. They never saw Adamson and they lied about what he said to them. They all got together and made the story up.

I'll text you the insurance info. I told John about it a little while back.
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