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  #21  
Old September 1st, 2011, 12:09 PM
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I honestly thought MAR was cancelled this year.
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  #22  
Old September 1st, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Seems like a good number of Defenders will be there this time.
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  #23  
Old September 1st, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Ouch!! You guys forget this is all volunteer stuff, and for fun- right? I haven't belonged to ROAV for probably 10 years since MAR got so big. I am however on the board for ONSLRS, and quite honestly- we have it made. URE is same time, same venue, same guys doing the work. And we haven't charged for the last two years... But Dan and I are trying to hand off the baton and that is no easy feat!! I am not trying to meddle in ROAV politics, but just saying why flame the guys DOING stuff, it ain't easy as they say, and you cannot please all the folks all the time. Quit bitching and offer to help!! off soapbox;-0
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  #24  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 08:12 AM
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Welcome to 2007, rovertrader.
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  #25  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 08:39 AM
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Charles Galpin
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What's changed since 2007? Is it no longer people volunteering their time to support something they love, and doing the best they can? Is it no longer a thankless job (or worse they get people criticizing them)? Wait, I know the answer, nm.
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  #26  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:19 AM
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Been there, done that, didn't even get a lousy t-shirt. I could talk until the cows come home about volunteering with ROAV... From my experience I was put under the assumption that ROAV doesn't like volunteers, or at least giving them a budget to work with for things like trail cleanup and repair. They do have budget for flowers, staff coffee, and 1000$ wristbands, and pony rides though. Yeah, priorities. ROAV is NOT a non-profit for that matter, they are an llc, that hasn't filed taxes for 13 years, but we should keep quiet about that.

Take the opinion out of it for a minute and look at the facts. MAR attendance and ROAV membership has been declining since 2005. Why is that and why are people now looking for alternatives to MAR? Not to mention they can't get vendors to go to MAR this year. Charles if you're so passionate about ROAV why were you at Rauche Creek instead of the Spring Rally? Just saying.
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  #27  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:52 AM
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I think you are missing the point Dan. Regardless of the problems they have with the way it's been run, or the way they setup the organization incorrectly, or anything thing else you can criticize them for, it's still a bunch of people doing their best to make the most of it, all in their own free time, for free. Yes they could do better. But I think the point is valid - either help, or just let them be and do your own thing. You know it takes a lot of work to setup an event like MAR - if you or someone else has the energy to do it, I say go for it. But it doesn't have to be antagonistic towards ROAV either. I don't have the time or energy to help right now and therefore will take what I can get without being ungrateful about it.

I was at Rausch Creek because it was planned long in advance, not because I didn't want to go to the Spring Rally. I'd go to all the wheeling events (rover and non-rover) if I could
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  #28  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:26 AM
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I think you are missing the point Charles, I have stepped up, a number of times only to be shut down, so has Walter, so have others. Gustavo volunteered to be their personal accountant to get things in order and get their non-profit status, they said no an hired an accountant. So put up or shut up doesn't fly. The organization belongs to the members not the bod or officers, volunteer or not. The point is they need to listen to their members. They don't. So people are going to Uwharrie instead.
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  #29  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 12:22 PM
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So how many are going to MAR I have heard the count is 20?
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  #30  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 01:47 PM
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J. Michael McCaig
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Thank you Charles, I think you were right on target. ROAV is truly just a bunch of volunteers doing their best for the membership with what free time they can spare away from their jobs and families. The only reward for all this hard work is an occasional thank you. We have heard what the membership has been saying and thatís why we had the Cove and Rausch Creek events in order to provide some the best trails on the east coast. We listened to the feedback from last yearís MAR and this year we have more than doubled the trail system from last year. Personally Iím excited about these new trails as they remind me a lot of the Pearlís Pond trails. Itís always great to have a chance to wheel someplace new and these trails will only be available during this event. We were also listening to the membership when we hired a professional accountant outside of the club to review our books and to help us move forward with the nonprofit status. I probably havenít said enough publically but I want to thank all the volunteers who have been working hard this year to make these things happen.

Mike McCaig
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  #31  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 05:14 PM
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Mike, if ROAV is doing such a good job listening to its members why does this thread exist, and others like it on other forums?
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  #32  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Cause URE is awesome.
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  #33  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:51 PM
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I hate to call Mike out, but you guys had more than a Professional Accountant, you had someone with a PHD in Finance, several years of experience in Leading Multi-Million Dollars Adventures, just was someone not willing to risk his livelyhood.

Yet , after " The Professional; Accountant " was hired 6 mo ago, nothing has changed , we are yet to receive the findings ( I know the answer , but not all the other members have that privilege ), My name still on record with the State Commission ( Totally Wrong ), The Status remains the same, and when I've reached out to JK to talk about the situation with the SC , I was told not a good time to talk but that was months ago, and no call back.

Doug ( being a friend ) has taken every bit of my frustration on that situation, as You well know, I have no interest to have my name associated with a situation like that , YET , no ones seems to care.

So help me out and tell me what steps are taken to clear this, what is the deadline to correct it, I don't think it should be I correcting it.
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  #34  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 09:10 AM
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Daniel Chapman
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I highly doubt you'll receive an answer, Gus. You're only a member of ROAV; you may as well be a 6 year old kid. They do not owe you any answers.

Besides, this is not positive feedback. ROAV only answers to positive feedback.

But the reason nothing has changed is because no one at ROAV is held accountable. Doug knows the situation. John Keeney knows the situation. McCaig knows. They all know. But it's not any one persons problem. They're just volunteers, you know.
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  #35  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:28 PM
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I'm considering URE but can't find out much information about it. Does anyone know where to go to find out more about camping and registration etc? The facebook page doesn't help much.

On a side note, perhaps the discussion of ROAV politics could continue on another thread. I realize there is a large contingency of folks here who are connected to ROAV in one form or another and directly tie the MAR event with their emotions and thoughts about the organization and I mean no disrespect to them. This thread however is about the two events that are being offered up, URE and MAR. Just a thought...
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  #36  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 07:44 PM
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Just show up at very least. There will be an announcement on thier Facebook page. They have an entire campground reserved with hot showers etc.
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  #37  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 09:23 PM
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Anyone be interested in hitting Uwharrie the same weekend as MAR? I'm off and looking for something to do...
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  #38  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 11:11 PM
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I will be returning from Expo that w/e, but will run over if I get back in time...
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  #39  
Old September 5th, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
This is bullshit, Doug, and you know it. ROAV is such a clusterfuck with it's current "leaders", none of the members know what to think. Shit, 98% of the members have no clue as to what's even going on within ROAV.

The Cove event you speak of was announced less than 3-weeks in advance. You guys drag your feet and wait until the very last minute to let the members know what you're doing and then wonder why people like Trevor don't show up. It's a clusterfuck. The Cove event you guys did was a flop, and 90% of the reason it was a flop was because y'all can't get along long enough to make shit happen. The planning for the Cove was piss-poor. That's not Trevor's problem, that's your problem.

It's the same lame story with the Rausch Creek event ROAV did. How far in advance did the members have to plan for this event? 3-weeks? Are you seriously surprised that no one showed up? Really??

The only thing ROAV has done this year is waste money. You lost money on the ABM, Spring Rally, and the Summer Rally - and all indications are ROAV will loose money on MAR. ROAV's financials are still in disarray. You guys can't manage a dollar to save your ass. But you're going to blame someone like Trevor for not coming to one of your half-assed planned events for the clusterfuck you created. Unreal.

Dan responding to you is always a double edged sword but here goes. I was @ a party on Saturday where this email string was brought up to me by most of the guys there because they are all members. I had been away from a desk top for a couple of days so just read all of this. Most everything I am about to write you already know from our prior conversations. I'll start with your annual business meeting statement.
While I have never attended one of these it is my understanding that this is an annual dinner where the annual financial report is discussed with the membership and the annual election of board members/officers is held. This has always been an "expense" for the club as the dinner is meant to be an enticement for members to attend in mid to late February in order to have as many present as possible. To my knowledge for the entire existence of the club this event has never been meant to be a money making meeting-in the past some boards have made it an extravagent event and the amount of money spent was stagering but that was long ago. I was just a member who didn't attend this years meeting (or any prior ABM) so really don't have much more to offer about that meeting. Your inferring my responsibility is somehwat ludicrous.
I was asked to run for a board member position that evening via a phone call while I was driving. I said yes so that there would be some opposition to your buddy JT. I was elected -Jt was out.

At this elected board's first meeting in March it was made clear that Willow Hill had already been locked down/lease signed for MAR but because the family had another 160 acre tract of land they were offering the club to develop a trail network on for use into the forseable future-ie the 2010 board thought they had found a home for the event for the long term and signed a lease for 2011. The family member who was our contact person had some health issues this spring that ended up requiring surgery so the club didn't get to see that property until the first week of June.

There was no spring Rally planned so this years board unanimously agreed to go back to the Cove @ that first meeting and just had to iron out a weekend with Willis @ the Cove. The board selected a weekend and went to lock into that with the Cove but the management was away in the Dominican Republic for 10days so the event couldn't be announced/publicised until they returned. The Cove requires a liability policy for a club to hold an event @ their facility. ROAV has a master policy in place and the rider for each event costs and additional $835 or so. This said the only expenditure for the event were Tshirts and this insurance rider. The event would have needed 50+ trucks to have been "profitable". The club doesn't have a mission statement that it is meant to make a proffit but the intent is to try to be as close to break even as possible on these smaller events. ROAV events other than MAR have historically not had that many trucks. For years the spring and summer rallys haven't had attendence that came close to covering what the insurance costs have been. The possible exception to that was the event @ Montebello last year.

The Catlett family advised the club the week of June 20th (we had been pushing to have a work/trail building weekend on the new parcel) that this tract of land would not be available to the club afterall as the family member who owned it had sought legal counsel concerning liability and his atty told him no release would fully cover him from a lawsuit should someone get hurt. So the week of 4th of July weekend the board was advised that we don't have this 160 acre parcel to develop into this years trail network. Mike McCaig looked @ several different parcels and talked to lots of people in the area networking looking for somehing suitable. In the end there are the acreage adjacent to last years mud bog and a large parcel with what Mike McCaig and Mike Boggs described as a considerable trail network on the Albemarle side of the James. I haven't seen this and hope to this coming weekend during the scheduled work weekend mentioned earlier in this thread.

Your next statement is that the Summer event @ Rausch lost money. Rausch doesn't require that a club have an insurance rider so the only expense for this event were Tshirts which sold out. I'm certain you are wrong that this event was an expense for the club.

This is a club with a small goup of volunteers doing what they can. The vast majority of the membership want to contribute no time and only want to attend events-I get that. Yes I am one of the seven volunteers until February. The way I perceive the job is to try and make sure events will be where and how I and my friends would want them (ie the membership). Last years event shut down the Pearls pond trail network after someone (we all know who) decided to ignore well marked boundaries and went way out of bounds blowing past the private land owners home @ 7am. That was the straw that broke the camels back for that relationship and everyone in attendence including myself suffered the consequences of that trail network being closed.

As far as financials go the balance in the clubs account was around 21k @ the annual business meeting back in February and was still pretty much the same up until the annual liability policy premium was paid in late July which was also in the $850 range. So the bank acct balance has remained static right @ the $20-21k mark. The accounting firm who waded through the years of records and who prepared the Non-profit filing with the IRS said the club was fine. Like thousands of non-profit entities across the country where leadership or management changes annually ROAV had not sent in their Non-proffit filing to the iRS in years. This is apparently akin to a post card but as you point out had not be filed in a very long time. The accounting firm chosen handled all of this for the club for free. The IRS has acknowledged receipt of the clubs non-proffit status filing so life moves on. One person keeps the clubs check book and nothing is spent unless its voted on, and to date less has been spent than deposited.

As far as communication with the membership goes I would agree it has been lax this year, seemingly I'm usually the one that has come forward with information-not sure why that has been the case. Back in May the board discussed and voted on/approved a motion to post the annual financial statement and board meeting minutes (these are conf calls) on the clubs website for the membership to read if they so desired. The intent was transparency. These have not been posted. I don't know if its because the information hasn't been given to Tommy the web master or if he hasn't been able to make the time to post them.

As far as your satement that the board can't get along well enough to make decisions, thats completely inaccurate. The issues have been:
1) finding out after being elected that tax exempt staus had been botched by prior boards so withing 2 weeks of finding this out everything was turned over to an accounting firm that specializes in non-proffits.
2) the trail issue from last years event appeared to have been overcome but we had to wait for the family to grant us access.
3) the Spring event was planned quickly and would have been announced 10 days earlier except for the Coves ownership not being available for confirmation- we have asked The Cove to confirm that same weekend for a spring event for 2012 so it can be announced well in advance.
3) Rausch/Summer event was something I did 100% on my own-I just asked justin and Trevor to be there as trail guides since I hadn't been to the park. Justin took his 90 swimming and Randy and Trevor did all the trail guiding.
I am 100% responsible for this event- attendence was 20 some odd trucks and we had a great time split into two groups on the trails. The only gripe I heard was that there weren't enough shirts ordered over the registration numbers.
4) planning for the MAR event and readying trails- permit is handled, generator rented, port a johns rented, tent rental,tables chairs etc proposals out, pa syatem handled, onsite cellular repeater truck tenatively lined up. Pre-registration up 3 weeks prior to last year.

Historically almost all registrations come in less than three weeks before the event.

One of the things I was surprised to find out was that last year the Catlett family (land onwers/host) took the money paid to them by the club and scheduled and paid the bands that played and a number of other things like loads of gravel etc.

I appreciate your bringing your love for the ROAV club to me personaly as your whipping post with your ever eloquent style. While we have never personally met, I continue to look forward to that day. I am a member who volunteered my time for 12 mos after enjoying the club for nearly two decades without ever contributing before. I am certain I have less time to spare than most having two careers,two teenagers, two homes to maintain, and a farm to deal with but I am giving as much time as I can because it seemed like the right thing to do to give back to a club that I have enjoyed being a member of since 1994. Given my own time limitation perhaps I wasn't the best candidate for a board member but only 9 people volunteered to fill the 7 positions-I'm sorry you feel I dragging my feet. I understand Trevors and others frustration about scheduling time off and having to make a decision based on not much information. Not having seen these new trail networks I personaly can't comment on them. I understand that the perception is that the club leadership didn't listen to commentary after last years event- hopefully this response sheds some light on that perception.
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  #40  
Old September 5th, 2011, 05:27 PM
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Sounds good to me Doug. I know the majority of the ROAV crew are doing the best they can under the constraints. Hopefully after this MAR the club can come back with some strong leadership and a good location for MAR12. I also think most people are smart enough not to believe the anti-ROAV hate being spread all over the interweb. It's just like if you continuously complain about high taxes or government - move somewhere else. If you don't like what ROAV is doing then: 1. Don't be a member. 2. Run for the Board. 3. Start your own club. But for crisssakes, stop bitching about it.
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