True Reliability: 200tdi vs 2.5na - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 27th, 2014, 05:25 PM
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Samdford Wallace
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True Reliability: 200tdi vs 2.5na

I read over and over that the 200tdi is one of the best built engines ever released from Land Rover, and it is also one of the most reliable engines ever.

I currently have the 2.5na. While it is slow, it has turned over every time. I've driven it to 10k elevation without any problems. I have jumped in it without hesitation and driven 25 hours with no problems. The military choose this engine over the 200tdi for almost 10 years, up until about 2000.

I know it's slow. But I am really curious if the 2.5na is just as or more reliable than the 200tdi? Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old October 27th, 2014, 05:29 PM
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thought:

The military used the engine because you're usually not racing anywhere in a convoy or around a base. Top speed requirement for most military operations is sub 50MPH I'd presume.

Both are reliable engines, they are practically the same engine with the addition of a turbo to the 200 TDI (not an afterthought like the TD).

Any turbo engine runs the risk of consumable parts (mainly the turbo and manifold) but regular maintenance and preventative care should keep any diesel engine on the road for 300K.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
thought:

The military used the engine because you're usually not racing anywhere in a convoy or around a base. Top speed requirement for most military operations is sub 50MPH I'd presume.

Both are reliable engines, they are practically the same engine with the addition of a turbo to the 200 TDI (not an afterthought like the TD).

Any turbo engine runs the risk of consumable parts (mainly the turbo and manifold) but regular maintenance and preventative care should keep any diesel engine on the road for 300K.
I also heard they used the 2.5na so they had room to run their military alternators for extra equipment. Either way, I'm curious which one is more reliable. You think they are about the same?

P.S. I'd hate to be outrunning enemy fire with a 2.5na.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 05:40 PM
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all else being equal, the turbocharged engine will have a shorter life.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
all else being equal, the turbocharged engine will have a shorter life.
Agreed, in my case I ran the 2.5NA until the LT77 shit the bed, then I upgraded both at the same time. I don't think I would have invested the money as I liked the 2.5NA enough and the defender really isn't my go to for long trips these days.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 05:55 PM
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My 2.5 na was loud, slow, smelly, not that reliable, hemoraged oil, shook violently and was an all around POS. In fact I hated it. A lot. When I would go on extended road trips, instead of using a rest stop I would just pop the bonnet and piss on the motor. It made me feel better.


The breaking point for me was trying to make it up to the Wintergreen Resort and having to use lo-range 2nd gear on the pavement.


The military used that motor because the REMFs who ordered it were stupid (and didn't have to drive it). As REMFs often are.


If you have a 2.5na and like it you should seek immediate help as you will soon be self mutilating - or worse. We saved Rick Newman, so it can be done.


The only good thing about a 2.5na is that after the coming nuclear holocaust the only things running around will be cockroaches and 2.5na's. But the cockroaches will be faster.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 06:06 PM
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I've seen quite a few 2.5NA failures lately and seen many worn out examples. I'm not really sure either engine is any more reliable than any other engine.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 06:07 PM
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Historically, the 200 TDI was developed from the 2.5 N/A which in turn was developed from the 2.25 5 main bearing engine.

The major differences among the 2 engines is the TDI is a zero tolerance engine with the combustion chamber located inside the piston while the 2.5 N/A has relatively flat pistons with the combustion chambers in the head recess.

The 2 basically share the same block, crank, oil pump, and so on.

The 200 TDI had some short comings that were corrected with the 300 TDI.
The 200 head has a small bridge between the valves that often cracks rendering the head useless.
The 300 has at least twice the thickness between the valves.
The 300 head will fit onto a 200 as an upgrade, but you have to rig the coolant hoses and use the 300 injectors with lines, rockers, valve cover, and requires some machine work to fit the 300 dipstick.

The 200 has the coolant flowing through the front cover where the water pump mounts.
When you have a blown head gasket or cracked head, the pressure will blow the gaskets between the front cover and block, requiring you to tear down the front of the 200 engine, remove the timing belt and so on to fix which takes more that a day and is a general pain.
The 300 luckily has the P-gasket which separates the water pump coolant circuit from the front cover and is easily replaced directly without undoing any part of the front 300 cover.

The 2.5 N/A is probably not a lot more reliable when compared to the 200 TDI.
Am glad you have had good luck with your 2.5 N/A which is not the case with many owners or the 2.5 N/A and 200 TDI.
Personally, I've fixed lots of issues with both engines.

One major reason the British didn't upgrade to the 200 is that it would have cost a lot of extra money.
The 200 would required a whole new support system of spares, technical know how from mechanics, and the UK armed forces had very large quantities of depot overhauled engines in the works and completed stocked away for swapping out later.
All these perfectly good running engines would have to be sold off and replaced with 200 TDI engines which require more complicated maintenance.

Once the British Army got past the unreliable British Rail contract rebuilt engines, the 2.5 N/A Diesels were more reliable.
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Old October 27th, 2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
My 2.5 na was loud, slow, smelly, not that reliable, hemoraged oil, shook violently and was an all around POS. In fact I hated it. A lot. When I would go on extended road trips, instead of using a rest stop I would just pop the bonnet and piss on the motor. It made me feel better. The breaking point for me was trying to make it up to the Wintergreen Resort and having to use lo-range 2nd gear on the pavement. The military used that motor because the REMFs who ordered it were stupid (and didn't have to drive it). As REMFs often are. If you have a 2.5na and like it you should seek immediate help as you will soon be self mutilating - or worse. We saved Rick Newman, so it can be done. The only good thing about a 2.5na is that after the coming nuclear holocaust the only things running around will be cockroaches and 2.5na's. But the cockroaches will be faster.
Meh, your experience may vary as it's often said. I didn't hate my 2.5na but it had done less than 100k and was visibly cared for (had seen less than 5000 miles a year)

I'm not quick to compare apples to apples when it comes to cars and their service history as it does make a difference. The 2.5NA was a perfect island motor with plenty of torque and economy to bang around town.

If I lived above sea level and in a city larger than 15 minutes across I might be in a different camp...
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  #10  
Old October 27th, 2014, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
My 2.5 na was loud, slow, smelly, not that reliable, hemoraged oil, shook violently and was an all around POS. In fact I hated it. A lot. When I would go on extended road trips, instead of using a rest stop I would just pop the bonnet and piss on the motor. It made me feel better. The breaking point for me was trying to make it up to the Wintergreen Resort and having to use lo-range 2nd gear on the pavement. The military used that motor because the REMFs who ordered it were stupid (and didn't have to drive it). As REMFs often are. If you have a 2.5na and like it you should seek immediate help as you will soon be self mutilating - or worse. We saved Rick Newman, so it can be done. The only good thing about a 2.5na is that after the coming nuclear holocaust the only things running around will be cockroaches and 2.5na's. But the cockroaches will be faster.
Raub I applaud your ability to link REMFs and the 2.5 NA, which has increased my dislike of it further... Which I didn't think was possible!

My 2.5 is reliable but anemic. If I only ever needed my truck as a farm vehicle it would be great... Alas I actually drive my truck and it's lack of power is laughable! It is, however, bomb proof!
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Old October 27th, 2014, 09:19 PM
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I was just thinking about this yesterday actually as my OD turned 70k. I've been driving mine 2-3x a week for the past 6 months. To me it seems to be waking up and I seem to be learning how to drive it better. I've gotten much better at timing my shifts an hitting the power curve better. Off the start it is slower than everything on the road but it gets to 65 easier and I really enjoy it more these days.

Clay
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