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  #1  
Old February 12th, 2015, 05:21 PM
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Transmission help

If anyone is familiar with the inner-workings of an ZF auto transmission, I need some advice, I'm desperate. Please Pm me if you can help or know someone who could speak to me.
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  #2  
Old February 12th, 2015, 06:00 PM
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I told you who to go to in your thread when you were asking about costs to rebuild. Doubtful they will give you free advice. But worth a try.

They are in Merryfield. Can't remember the name offhand. But only do ZFs and know them inside out and backwards
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  #3  
Old February 12th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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There is nothing unique about the 4HP22. It was used in a lot of cars in the 80s and 90s. Thinking most transmission shops will have the experience needed.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_4HP22_transmission
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  #4  
Old February 16th, 2015, 04:19 PM
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I am in the middle of the biggest mess I've ever been a part of. Just to recap...I purchased a rebuilt ZF tranny at the beginning of January. It was shipped up, transmission shop installed, drove home. Within 8 hrs of installation, Reverse started to fail (Loud noise when selecting reverse, would barely go backward). Took back to shop that installed, they said there was an internal issue. Supplier sent another transmission up to shop weeks later. (Supplier paid for half of the 2nd install, I had to pay the rest). Shop installed it, and I started to drive it home and got about 3/10 of a mile down the road and car would not move.

Immediately had it towed to another transmission shop for another opinion.

New shop determines there is an issue, notices loud noise from tranny and little movement when in gear. They take out 2nd rebuilt one, and first determine the torque converter has damage internally, and it wasn't turning the pump like it should. Shop also thinks there could be something else going on inside, they want open it up to see.

Now I have paid to install 2 faulty transmissions, paid for the transmission itself, 20 quarts of tranny fluid, and a vehicle tow. I am now faced with another labor bill for new shop to take it out of the car, open up the 2nd faulty transmission and see what issues it may have.

Before the lecture starts, yes I should have gone in a different direction, but at this point i am stuck. I don't foresee the supplier helping out much at this point, other than probably parts to repair. What Should I Do???
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Old February 16th, 2015, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
I am in the middle of the biggest mess I've ever been a part of. What Should I Do???
Matt:
I am sorry you are having these issues.
If the torque converter was reused and bad, it could very well have caused your 90 with a perfectly good transmission to become immobile.
Then reused with the second transmission and another unwelcome failure.

Anytime you reuse a torque converter, you recirculate any metal shavings crud and whatever is trapped inside.

If the torque converter and transmission are not installed in place and are mated incorrectly, the ZF pump will indeed be ruined or quickly fail.

Being at the mercy of someone else's mechanical skills brings on these bad scenarios.
Your best solution short of writing another check is to buy the tools and manuals and turn your own wrenches provided you are physically able.
Being self reliant is the utopia of Land Rover ownership.
Good Luck.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #6  
Old February 16th, 2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Matt:
I am sorry you are having these issues.
Being at the mercy of someone else's mechanical skills brings on these bad scenarios.
Your best solution short of writing another check is to buy the tools and manuals and turn your own wrenches provided you are physically able.
Being self reliant is the utopia of Land Rover ownership.
Good Luck.
I agree, but automatic transmissions and rebuilding them is something I have no idea about. Anything else, I'd be willing to give it a shot. I don't care if I ever own another automatic car.
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  #7  
Old February 16th, 2015, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Confused: Are these new, rebuilt, or used take offs?

-Jeff
Rebuilt
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  #8  
Old February 16th, 2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Rebuilt
If the torque converter was reused and bad, it could very well have caused your 90 with a perfectly good transmission to become immobile.
Then reused with the second transmission and another unwelcome failure.

Anytime you reuse a torque converter, you recirculate any metal shavings crud and whatever is trapped inside.

If the torque converter and transmission are not installed in place and are mated incorrectly, the ZF pump will indeed be ruined or quickly fail.

Best practice is to install a new or rebuilt torque converter with a new or rebuilt transmission.

If you buy an R380 from Ashcroft and all the other parts, we could talk about a future manual swap.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #9  
Old February 16th, 2015, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
If the torque converter was reused and bad, it could very well have caused your 90 with a perfectly good transmission to become immobile.
Then reused with the second transmission and another unwelcome failure.

Anytime you reuse a torque converter, you recirculate any metal shavings crud and whatever is trapped inside.

If the torque converter and transmission are not installed in place and are mated incorrectly, the ZF pump will indeed be ruined or quickly fail.

Best practice is to install a new or rebuilt torque converter with a new or rebuilt transmission.
Sorry I should have clarified or mentioned, there was a rebuilt torque converter for each rebuilt tranny, so each tranny had a it's own "rebuilt" TC. Neither was used on a different tranny.

Also, 2nd shop determined that the TC was properly installed on the 2nd round tranny, as the pump gears shown no wear or damage. But the inside gears or teeth of the TC was worn out. That's all that's been discovered at this point.
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  #10  
Old February 16th, 2015, 05:48 PM
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When I do transmission work, I always make sure that the owner supplies their parts.
In that way if the transmission fails, it's between the owner and the supplier without me being in the middle.

Check to be sure that the correct TC was used as there are 2 different TCs on Rover V8 engines.
This is easily achieved by comparing the original one that came out to the 2 that were installed later.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #11  
Old February 16th, 2015, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
When I do transmission work, I always make sure that the owner supplies their parts. In that way if the transmission fails, it's between the owner and the supplier. Check to be sure that the correct TC was used as there are 2 different TCs used on Rover V8 engines. This is easily achieved by comparing the original one that came out to the 2 that were installed later.
Well it's definitely between me and the supplier at this point. I'm at their mercy for any help.

I would compare the original TC out of my bad original tranny but that core was sent back weeks ago after 1st rebuilt one was installed. I'll make sure new shop knows this info though.
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  #12  
Old February 16th, 2015, 07:15 PM
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I wish you would have listened to me the first time. I told you where to go. Most times it is because someone else has the experience or knowledge. So when you ask....this is one of those learning experiences dude.

Not to pound onya mate but this is the third time you asked for advice on this. I hope it works out for you.
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  #13  
Old February 16th, 2015, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
I wish you would have listened to me the first time. I told you where to go. Most times it is because someone else has the experience or knowledge. So when you ask....this is one of those learning experiences dude.

Not to pound onya mate but this is the third time you asked for advice on this. I hope it works out for you.
Yes...lesson learned. You get what you pay for apparently as I recall you said that shop that did your rebuild wanted like 5K. I'm in for half that much, but without a working RR. Moving along
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Old February 17th, 2015, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
I agree, but automatic transmissions and rebuilding them is something I have no idea about. Anything else, I'd be willing to give it a shot. I don't care if I ever own another automatic car.
Here's where to get a rebuilt unit:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co...gearboxes.html
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #15  
Old February 17th, 2015, 11:34 AM
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There can be an issue afaik with the transmissions if not installed correctly causing failure of the oil pump. Which results in no movement at all. My magical Land Rover Center toasted a ZF when they fixed the rear end seal (under warranty).
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #16  
Old February 17th, 2015, 12:56 PM
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When installing an automatic best practice is to stand the transmission upright vertically, drop the torque converter home. It will click and drop down 3 times before going into the final resting place.
Fix the torque converter in place with a long bolt passed through one of the lower inspection plate holes.
This keeps the torque converter in place so it can't drop forward.
Install the whole unit.
Bolt it in place.
Tighten the torque converter bolts and connect all the lines and linkages.
Then you add a quart of ATF and start the engine with the transmission in neutral.
Then you immediately add fluid with the engine running until you reach the full ATF dipstick mark.
Next you shift through the gears and watch the output shaft.
Next you turn the engine off and install the T-case, handbrake, driveshafts, and so on.
Finally you take it for a test drive.
Then you adjust the kick down linkage.

If you fill the unit all the way with fluid before starting the engine, it can cause issues, especially when the shifter is in park.
The shift linkage will actually fit on backwards and still semi-work, but not select gears properly, which could account for your first "failure".
Also if the T-Case linkage is not installed properly it can cause you issues that are easily mis-diagnosed as automatic transmission failure.
And finally during install if the torque converter slips forward and is pushed back in the wrong position, it will destroy or partially damage the ATF pump so that the transmission fails quickly.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #17  
Old February 17th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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Today, the supplier Roverland Parts decided that they believe the issue with my transmissions was "install error" even though the 2nd transmission shop I took it to says otherwise, and they are unbiased. RL Parts has decided they would refund my money on the transmission I purchased, LESS the cost they paid my former shop to put in the 2nd one ($400), and the shipping and freight charges. So even though I have paid $2,500+ so far in this journey with transmission, labor on 2 defective units, fluids, all they can offer back is about $560.

I have decided to let current shop rebuild my transmission (they will warranty it for 2 years, 24K miles). And even though that means more money out of pocket on my end, the final result will be a good tranny with a warranty. I will be trying to recoup my other spent money through other avenues I'm not able to discuss on here.

Let there be a warning and advice offered through all this, first, take advice from tenured members when doing something like transmission replacement. Second, please be careful with places that offer "rebuilt transmissions" with worthless warranties or honest people to stand behind them.

Hopefully my plight will help someone else down the road.
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Old February 17th, 2015, 06:41 PM
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Sorry to hear about your mess. Same warning goes for "rebuilt engines" as well.
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Old February 17th, 2015, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Today, the supplier Roverland Parts decided that they believe the issue with my transmissions was "install error" even though the 2nd transmission shop I took it to says otherwise, and they are unbiased. RL Parts has decided they would refund my money on the transmission I purchased, LESS the cost they paid my former shop to put in the 2nd one ($400), and the shipping and freight charges. So even though I have paid $2,500+ so far in this journey with transmission, labor on 2 defective units, fluids, all they can offer back is about $560.

I have decided to let current shop rebuild my transmission (they will warranty it for 2 years, 24K miles). And even though that means more money out of pocket on my end, the final result will be a good tranny with a warranty. I will be trying to recoup my other spent money through other avenues I'm not able to discuss on here.

Let there be a warning and advice offered through all this, first, take advice from tenured members when doing something like transmission replacement. Second, please be careful with places that offer "rebuilt transmissions" with worthless warranties or honest people to stand behind them.

Hopefully my plight will help someone else down the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
When installing an automatic best practice is to stand the transmission upright vertically, drop the torque converter home. It will click and drop down 3 times before going into the final resting place.
Fix the torque converter in place with a long bolt passed through one of the lower inspection plate holes.
This keeps the torque converter in place so it can't drop forward.
Install the whole unit.
Bolt it in place.
Tighten the torque converter bolts and connect all the lines and linkages.
Then you add a quart of ATF and start the engine with the transmission in neutral.
Then you immediately add fluid with the engine running until you reach the full ATF dipstick mark.
Next you shift through the gears and watch the output shaft.
Next you turn the engine off and install the T-case, handbrake, driveshafts, and so on.
Finally you take it for a test drive.
Then you adjust the kick down linkage.

If you fill the unit all the way with fluid before starting the engine, it can cause issues, especially when the shifter is in park.
The shift linkage will actually fit on backwards and still semi-work, but not select gears properly, which could account for your first "failure".
Also if the T-Case linkage is not installed properly it can cause you issues that are easily mis-diagnosed as automatic transmission failure.
And finally during install if the torque converter slips forward and is pushed back in the wrong position, it will destroy or partially damage the ATF pump so that the transmission fails quickly.
Large margin of error possible for installation issues.
Since you didn't do the work and have multiple opinions that are conflicting, then how do you know that Roverland Parts supplied one or more bad transmissions???
That sounds like an assumption to me.
Not to rag on you Matt, as I feel your pain, but facts and assumptions "don't belong in the same bucket".
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #20  
Old February 17th, 2015, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Large margin of error possible for installation issues.
Since you didn't do the work and have multiple opinions that are conflicting, then how do you know that Roverland Parts supplied one or more bad transmissions???
That sounds like an assumption to me.
Not to rag on you Matt, as I feel your pain, but facts and assumptions "don't belong in the same bucket".
I guess I will let the customer service/backing up of their part do the talking. Anyone can take this information and form any opinion they wish, either negative or positive for either party, I'm just stating what I know as the consumer with an unbiased 3rd party (other tranny shop) giving their experienced opinion.
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