Thinking of building a D110, would this be legal - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 28th, 2006, 09:21 PM
ChicagoDon
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Don Johnson
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Thinking of building a D110, would this be legal

Now that my axle swap on the D2 is done, its got me bugged about what next. Right now im seriously considering, and planning on building a D110 soft top. I figure this is the best place to ask questions, considering this is the best Defender forum out there.

Here is my current plan:

Use an RRC LWB frame since they can be had for nothing and the 107" wheelbase is workable with a D110 body. Buy a D110 3-door body from the UK with the complete interior and electrical system for the interior. Then customize the RRC chassis for the D110 body, then fit the D110 body onto the frame, then do the roll cage. After I have a body on frame completed i'd then begin to swap the engine/trans/drivetrain from my D2 under this new frame and body. Id probably use the RRC rear a-arm and make custom lower arms, and then do a 3-link up front. I'd then transplant the engine, trans, t-case and part of the electrical system from the D2 into this new truck ive created.

Ive got the room to do it, and will probably be buying a frame and rear tub next june to start this project. I know its something that I can do with enough time and money. Now comes the fun part. What the hell does this creation exist as in the legal world? Its the heart of a 2000 D2, with 1997 Toyota axles, a 1990 RRC frame, and a 1980s D110 body. Im assuming this would be a legal build, but im just making sure.
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  #2  
Old November 28th, 2006, 09:34 PM
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Trevor K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoDon
Now that my axle swap on the D2 is done, its got me bugged about what next. Right now im seriously considering, and planning on building a D110 soft top. I figure this is the best place to ask questions, considering this is the best Defender forum out there.

Here is my current plan:

Use an RRC LWB frame since they can be had for nothing and the 107" wheelbase is workable with a D110 body. Buy a D110 3-door body from the UK with the complete interior and electrical system for the interior. Then customize the RRC chassis for the D110 body, then fit the D110 body onto the frame, then do the roll cage. After I have a body on frame completed i'd then begin to swap the engine/trans/drivetrain from my D2 under this new frame and body. Id probably use the RRC rear a-arm and make custom lower arms, and then do a 3-link up front. I'd then transplant the engine, trans, t-case and part of the electrical system from the D2 into this new truck ive created.

Ive got the room to do it, and will probably be buying a frame and rear tub next june to start this project. I know its something that I can do with enough time and money. Now comes the fun part. What the hell does this creation exist as in the legal world? Its the heart of a 2000 D2, with 1997 Toyota axles, a 1990 RRC frame, and a 1980s D110 body. Im assuming this would be a legal build, but im just making sure.
i think you still need to have a d90 for the firewall and vin#
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  #3  
Old November 28th, 2006, 10:08 PM
Monkeyboy

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Take a look over at AlohaRover's thread at http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=528907

He's stretching his 88 into .... well something that is yet to be determined He's generated a nice discussion of the "use the LWB RRC" or make something new question.

KAA
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  #4  
Old November 29th, 2006, 01:14 AM
ChicagoDon
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Don Johnson
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So as I further look into this project, the smartest way to go seems to be to buy an entire running 1988 RRC LWB. If I do that I dont need to steal the drivetrain (minus the axles and driveshafts) from the D2.

So assuming I built it like this, could I legally drive a 1988 RRC LWB with a roll caged 1980s D110 custom body on it? And could I get away with having it titled as a 1988 RRC? Then to throw this out there, If i use a complete RRC I can rebuild the D2 with stock parts and sell it to buy a Cummins 4BT from an early 1990s bread van to put into this thing. So engine and trans from a breadvan, t-case and frame of an RRC, toyota axles, and a D110 body. I dont care what the title says on it, but would i be legally able to title and VIN it?
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  #5  
Old November 29th, 2006, 07:24 AM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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If your still in Chicago, you don't need a D-90 bulkhead and you can build as you see fit.

Illinois allows Kit or scratch cars to be built and titled. The jist of it is that you have to prove to the state that the car was assembled with parts traceable to receipts. Once you apply for Kit car status, you have to schedule a meeting with DMV to verify the build with documentation and have a safety inspection. All goes well Il DMV will issue a new legal VIN that states it was scratch built and is a kit car. Been awhile, but surf the the IL DMV site and read it for your self. Each state varies as to how and what they will title. As long as it meets EPA and DOT standards, IL will title. IL even has a new amendment favoring diesels that preclude them from testing and have modified their rules to enable conversions.

VIN fraud occurs when you use an existing VIN improperly. Like a RRC VIN on a vehicle that clearly isn't a RRC.

Seacrh the BBS. It was discussed in length awhile back.

EwS
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  #6  
Old November 29th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Monkeyboy

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So what's the consensus (yeah, right) about potential insurance complications of a Serious Accident and subsequent coverage when you've smacked into someone with this totally altered vehicle that the insurance co. thought was a simple '88 RRC?

I certainly don't know the answer, but it kinda makes me nervous ...

KAA
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  #7  
Old November 29th, 2006, 09:23 AM
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Best bet is to start with a pre emisssions series truck and build as you see fit.

Make sure to tell the insurance company it is modified. If you don't want to drive it to work you can get cheap insurance through haggarty or grundy on antique plates and if you work with them, they will cover it.
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  #8  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:16 PM
ChicagoDon
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Don Johnson
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Eric, I am currently in AZ but chances are my vehicles will always be registered to our family business in IL. Its good to know they allow kit cars. Chances are, to save money I'll probably SIII or SIIa tub, wings, and bulkhead since its cheaper than using D110 parts, and then just use a defender grill and hood. That would make it quite easy to register. I'd also get it insured as a kit/custom car as well.
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  #9  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM
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jim pendleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoDon
So assuming I built it like this, could I legally drive a 1988 RRC LWB with a roll caged 1980s D110 custom body on it? And could I get away with having it titled as a 1988 RRC? t?
No such animal. LWB was in the 93' and up range. All you will get here is opinions about your idea. You need to do you own research to decide if it is viable for you to do.

JP
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  #10  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:40 PM
ChicagoDon
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Don Johnson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
No such animal. LWB was in the 93' and up range. All you will get here is opinions about your idea. You need to do you own research to decide if it is viable for you to do.

JP
Yup, my mistake. I just found a nice 1993 LWB in chicago for next to nothing. I'll probably be buying it Dec 15th. the day I get back from PHX
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  #11  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:47 PM
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why not just fix up the RR. Defenders especially 110's are way over rated.
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  #12  
Old November 29th, 2006, 12:48 PM
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George Kase
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Eric,
you said: "VIN fraud occurs when you use an existing VIN improperly. Like a RRC VIN on a vehicle that clearly isn't a RRC."
I just wanted to clarify that if your RRC chasis has a vin number stamped on it which is the same as the title's vin number you can put any auto body you want on it and it will still be legal as a RRC...I think I'm right about that.
George
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  #13  
Old November 29th, 2006, 02:15 PM
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Jack Walter
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Another possible solution would be to legally import a 25 year old 110 when they hit that mark next year and then rebuild it using any neccesary new parts. You can legally bring in almost any condition truck as long as its 25 years old. Once its here in one big piece there is almost nothing anyone can say to you about any modifications or improvements you may choose to do to it.
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  #14  
Old November 29th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkase
Eric,
you said: "VIN fraud occurs when you use an existing VIN improperly. Like a RRC VIN on a vehicle that clearly isn't a RRC."
I just wanted to clarify that if your RRC chasis has a vin number stamped on it which is the same as the title's vin number you can put any auto body you want on it and it will still be legal as a RRC...I think I'm right about that.
George
That's not what the DMV told me. VIN Stamp re VIN Plate in IL. Plate removed and applied to another different vehicle is different than the stamped VIN/new body. The DMV recognizes both but appears to favor strongly the actual VIN Plate. As they told me frames rust, get hit and replaced frequently and the VIN PLATE is preference.

But your correct. You can mount a body on a RRC if the VIN Stamp is present. Problem isn't with the State but your insurance. You get hit and they total it they will give you the value for the RRC. With a Kit car title and proper documentation, you can work with your agent to get a stated value policy. Loss to the insured in vastly different.

From my research last year with the DMV/Insurance your better off just assembling the whole thing from new parts with the proper documentation. No issues with the state or your carrier in the event of a loss. I never got a straight answer on using a non-approved EPA/DOT motor in a kit car build. Differnt stories form different people in the DMV. Some say no problem others said they checked for it.

I have just started checking a potential re-power. Fun Fun Fun.

So like Pendy said, call the DMV and get the word from the horses mouth as it changes from place to place.

EwS
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