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  #101  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:06 PM
dchapman
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A detroit winds up and releases? That's a new one....
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  #102  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:10 PM
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With a sound like a gun going off from time to time.....

Which translates to shock load (or rather unload) into the axle that releases. Or more impotantly torque load BEFORE it releases.
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  #103  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:13 PM
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So sooner or later you'll need hd axles?
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  #104  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:17 PM
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You're stretching Dan, you're stretching......

YES you will 'eventually' need HD axles with ANY traction aid if fitted to a stock LR axle. How's that?

(Course, you might get away with running 4+ trails for 10 months and have stock axles no worse for wear if you're lucky with a Kaiser)
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  #105  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:51 PM
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You two need to get a room
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  #106  
Old March 11th, 2011, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
It will break eventually. But with a Kaiser as with an ARB you can choose to be easier on the shafts by not driving like a moron. With a Detroit if it winds up and releases you don't get a say. CAN WE PUT THIS ONE TO BED NOW?????
You are just making things worse by showing very poor knowledge and experience. Anybody suggesting that is it OK to keep stock late model Rover 24 spline shafts with any locker is providing incredibly bad advice. Aftermarket shafts are mandatory not an option.

Have you personally used a Detroit on a Rover? Sounds like no.
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  #107  
Old March 11th, 2011, 06:01 PM
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That would be yes on the Detroit (sorry if that bursts your bubble) and we've already beat the other to death so lets stop making this about me who you know nothing about so that we can stop contaminating the locker thread and as you put it 'not helping' the product.

Let me give you a little more to bust up your very narrow view of the world.

I know a guy who runs stock LR axles in his truck and refuses to buy HDs. We think he's nuts but when asked he points out that hes going to bust an axle sooner or later anyway and the stock ones are cheap and easily available. So far he reckons he's saved money over the cost of buying HD axles as he's not bust enough stock ones yet to cover buying HDs. The point being that you don't know it all whatever you may think just because you've driven a LR for a while.

Would it help you to know that I grew up with LRs (in the UK) the same as you probably did being in Canada and I've been drivng them since I was a kid off road and fixing them just about as long? I'm 42 today, do the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You are just making things worse by showing very poor knowledge and experience. Anybody suggesting that is it OK to keep stock late model Rover 24 spline shafts with any locker is providing incredibly bad advice. Aftermarket shafts are mandatory not an option.

Have you personally used a Detroit on a Rover? Sounds like no.
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  #108  
Old March 11th, 2011, 07:30 PM
dchapman
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I love the "I don't need HD axles because the stock ones never break" comments.
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  #109  
Old March 11th, 2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I love the "I don't need HD axles because the stock ones never break" comments.
Shame I never said it then isn't it?
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  #110  
Old March 11th, 2011, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Shame I never said it then isn't it?
Wasn't a stab at you. I've just heard it all before. Then you go wheeling with these guys and understand why they never break an axle. Or a stock carrier. Or hit their diffs...........
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  #111  
Old March 11th, 2011, 07:43 PM
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We think the guy running stock axles is a moron but its hard to argue with him when he runs the same trails as us and has had the truck 5 or 6 years and still argues he's the right way up on not buying HDs. Course I know of at least 2 sets he's bust in the last 2 years but he recons he gets them used for about $75 from people upgrading to HDs....

I was really surprised mine didn't go considering some of the stuff I did with them and the locker in. But when I took them out they where fine. No twists, no real wear, nothing. Go figure I guess.
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  #112  
Old March 11th, 2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You are just making things worse by showing very poor knowledge and experience. Anybody suggesting that is it OK to keep stock late model Rover 24 spline shafts with any locker is providing incredibly bad advice. Aftermarket shafts are mandatory not an option.

Have you personally used a Detroit on a Rover? Sounds like no.
Your showing how limited your experience is by saying YOU have to run a HD axle. Many, and I mean many have run stock axles with both ARB's and Detroits. Is it the best idea, NO, but stating they are mandatory shows that you need to take a step back and stop drinking the kool aid. For piece of mind, yeah get the hd stuff and not worry, or do like most and run the stock axle 'till they break. It's a 50-50 shot on whether or not the detroit will be toast, but it's re-buildable. I've run many trails with guy's on arb's and detroits with stock axles and yet to have a run stopping break. And once again, these ain't dirt roads, but up to 4+ trails (1-5)....


and now I'm sure I'll get a lecture, but what do I know
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  #113  
Old March 11th, 2011, 10:22 PM
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When you guys say 4+, are you using some kind of metric scale? You definitely are not talking about any 4+ I have ever seen. Assuming this scale means 5 is the hardest.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #114  
Old March 11th, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Yea Buck...come on out...4+ Sutherland Trail, The gap, chiva falls, 3 feathers...not the easy shit or bypasses. Also, I'm talking about Ians' truck on these trails
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  #115  
Old March 11th, 2011, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Yea Buck...come on out...4+ Sutherland Trail, The gap, chiva falls, 3 feathers...not the easy shit or bypasses. Also, I'm talking about Ians' truck on these trails
Hey,

I really just have questions and am trying to figure this out. I don't use a trail rating system. So, does 5 mean the hardest trails there are? So 4+ would be like 4.5? Right?

I know for a fact that AZ has some of the hardest trails out there. Every bit as hard as the hammers, maybe harder, but according to this if I am thinking about it right, a 4+ would be Jackhammer, Sledgehammer, or Wreckingball. A 5 would be SOS, or FOL, or FOH.

I googled the trails you mentioned and they were all full body rigs on 31-33in tires. I would say a 2 or three if you are being very generous, if 5 is the hardest. Who rates them? Is it done per type of vehicle?

The only way you could ever get a stock rover shaft to the top of sledge is to take it out and ride the Kaiser unicorn to the top and drop it off, and thats a 4+ trail??
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #116  
Old March 12th, 2011, 12:00 AM
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This is what we generally use No idea where it originally came from:


Trail Rating Guide
  • 1.0
  • 1.5
  • 2.0
  • 2.5
  • 3.0
  • 3.5
  • 4.0
  • 4.5
1.0 All weather road; 4WD not needed.

1.5 Graded road; 4WD may be needed in poor weather.

2.0 Unimproved or rarely graded road. 4WD or extra clearance needed at times, with no special driving skills required.

2.5 Road rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, low gears often needed, with some extra care and a bit of driving experience useful.

3.0 Road in difficult terrain, rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, and low gears essential, with some driving skill and daring required.

3.5 Road in difficult terrain, probably maintained only by occasional users. Excellent stock truck or utility vehicle required, with considerable driving skill and daring needed.

4.0 Trail either never bladed or badly eroded. Stock vehicles are in jeopardy. Modifications for improved off-road performance and top driving skills needed.

4+ We can hardly improve on the original description written a few years ago by Jack Bickers: "with driving by World Class Yahoo Jeepers not much concerned with vehicle durability or personal safety." It is common to have as many as 10 percent of the vehicles experience major mechanical failures (gears, axles, driveshafts) on these trails.

We grade trails loosly based on that. A 5 would be what we call a buggy trail, in other words a full body rig almost certainly won't make it without some serious damage and its only really passable in a custom built buggy or rockcrawler. What you typically run in other words. Like I said though, I'm not talking the Hammers here or suggesting my truck is running them or is even capable of doing so. But we're not running mall parking lots either. We have to be able to grade trails from a dirt road to a what the f##k? to cater for all levels so this is what we use.
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  #117  
Old March 12th, 2011, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
This is what we generally use No idea where it originally came from:


Trail Rating Guide
  • 1.0
  • 1.5
  • 2.0
  • 2.5
  • 3.0
  • 3.5
  • 4.0
  • 4.5
1.0 All weather road; 4WD not needed.

1.5 Graded road; 4WD may be needed in poor weather.

2.0 Unimproved or rarely graded road. 4WD or extra clearance needed at times, with no special driving skills required.

2.5 Road rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, low gears often needed, with some extra care and a bit of driving experience useful.

3.0 Road in difficult terrain, rarely maintained, 4WD, good clearance, and low gears essential, with some driving skill and daring required.

3.5 Road in difficult terrain, probably maintained only by occasional users. Excellent stock truck or utility vehicle required, with considerable driving skill and daring needed.

4.0 Trail either never bladed or badly eroded. Stock vehicles are in jeopardy. Modifications for improved off-road performance and top driving skills needed.

4+ We can hardly improve on the original description written a few years ago by Jack Bickers: "with driving by World Class Yahoo Jeepers not much concerned with vehicle durability or personal safety." It is common to have as many as 10 percent of the vehicles experience major mechanical failures (gears, axles, driveshafts) on these trails.

We grade trails loosly based on that. A 5 would be what we call a buggy trail, in other words a full body rig almost certainly won't make it without some serious damage and its only really passable in a custom built buggy or rockcrawler. What you typically run in other words. Like I said though, I'm not talking the Hammers here or suggesting my truck is running them or is even capable of doing so. But we're not running mall parking lots either. We have to be able to grade trails from a dirt road to a what the f##k? to cater for all levels so this is what we use.
Thanks. Interesting. It's like a bell curve.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #118  
Old March 12th, 2011, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Your showing how limited your experience is by saying YOU have to run a HD axle. Many, and I mean many have run stock axles with both ARB's and Detroits. Is it the best idea, NO, but stating they are mandatory shows that you need to take a step back and stop drinking the kool aid. For piece of mind, yeah get the hd stuff and not worry, or do like most and run the stock axle 'till they break.
OK, you think it is OK to tell people to setup their trucks with a known easily breakable component. I personally won't give people that advice. The later model 24 spline shafts are weak. If you are using the truck on a trail that "needs" a locker, the chance of breaking them is high, in my experience. I like going out for a day of wheeling, not a day of fixing trucks and dragging broken ones off the trail. This is just my preference.
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  #119  
Old March 12th, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Yeah, Frank is a bit loony this week. I think he's off his meds again.
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  #120  
Old March 12th, 2011, 10:15 AM
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Here is my opinion on this HD axle with lockers love fest you all are having...

It is not mandatory to have HD axles, its just a hell of a lot smarter (and more expensive) to put them in along with the lockers. ...you can buy a lot of stock axles for the price of HD axles (In otherwords keep you stock 24spline and replace them when they break), but I can guarantee that when youre stuck in a rock garden, ARB's engaged, wheels grabbing, and you hear that pop.....you are wishing you had HD axles because changing an axle in a rock garden isnt fun.

Plenty of people run stock axles with lockers and have never had to replace an axle. Its all relative to your use. Hard use of lockers does warrant HD axles.

That being said, anyone seen HD axles break or twist? If so, then why spend the money and get the same result (broken axle)?
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