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  #41  
Old May 13th, 2010, 10:17 AM
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Chris Davis
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you asked if I installed them or had a shop---

I "helped" install them--I had my buddy Charlie (whom a lot of you know) install them while I handed him things like prusian blue and beer. He explained everything while doing it so I am 100% sure that I could fuck it up in the future. ;-)
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  #42  
Old May 14th, 2010, 01:02 AM
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Ian Gregory
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Thx Charles, thats a pretty cool tool. Funny to see how some things translate.

Thx Davis. I was just interested in wether people typically fit them themselves or go the shop route. I don't have a press so I pulled and refitted the diffs but had a shop do the switch.
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  #43  
Old May 20th, 2010, 02:15 PM
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update on the front?
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  #44  
Old May 21st, 2010, 01:12 AM
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Ian Gregory
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In progress but work is being a PITA and has me travelling a lot right now so I haven't had much time to take it out and stress it as much as I would like or to do all the different tests/miles I want to do before reporting back.

It's in and it seems to be working well for what I have done with it so far. I'll post up more detail once I have had chance to really work it.

Teaser snip of video that a friend shot and posted up on YouTube of messing around on a play hill with both lockers in:

Don't know if he took any going up. I'll check.

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Originally Posted by roverhybrids View Post
update on the front?
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  #45  
Old May 21st, 2010, 08:42 AM
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Frank Battersby
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How's the front locker on the road? I'd be just as interested to know how it is on road as off.
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  #46  
Old May 21st, 2010, 01:05 PM
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Ian Gregory
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That's the area I haven't had the time to test nearly enough as the truck isn't a DD and my schedule hasn't let me drive it much the last couple of weeks. It works, it steers/turns and it hasn't done any wierd shit like bind, snatch or slip or anything yet. But I want to put a bunch more miles on it in different situations before I comment too much. Off road it's a locker and it does what a locker should. i.e. lock.... But there's a few more oddball things I want to try it out on in the dirt as well. like locker requiring obstacles you need to steer through, soft sand/mud (if I can find any), side slopes and so on.

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Originally Posted by Frank84 View Post
How's the front locker on the road? I'd be just as interested to know how it is on road as off.
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  #47  
Old May 22nd, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Ian Gregory
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Jon posted up a couple more vids of me climbing the play hill.




In the 1st one I am going really slow so as to make sure that momentum isn't helping me through the cross axled point in the middle. You can see the lifted front wheel continuing to turn at driven speed, showing that the front locker is in and working.

That hill is just a little play hill but its all but impossible for a stock open axle truck to climb because of the placement and depth of a couple of the holes in the middle. I used it just to test that the lockers where locked up and not slipping.

Forgot to point out in the other post with the downhill vid that I was wandering from side to side trying to hit every hole on the way down. So you can see that steering is not a problem on an obstacle even though its fully locked up front rear and middle.
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  #48  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:52 PM
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Ian Gregory
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Kaiser Update

So I have had more chance to get the 90 out and play around the last few weeks and am now happy that I have put enough miles and terrain types under the front locker to comment. So here goes:

Off Road.

Not much to say. As with the rear the front locker is invisible off road until you need it. Its quiet and gives no indication of its presence until you need the traction. In extreme cross axle, limited traction or lifted wheel situations it does what any locker does and continues to turn both front wheels at the driven speed regardless of available grip or contact with the ground. The difference is that it does it regardless of steering input as well. I tested it out on loose rutted or rocky hills, soft sand, loose surfaces and some pretty tough rocky trails. It performed flawlessly. No snow, ice or deep mud though, sorry.

On Road.

This is the main area that I wanted to test and be sure I had put enough miles under it before commenting. I got the front Diff back, installed it and drove the truck 4 miles to a gas station and back to get a 1st impression and fill up. I found out very quickly that there is a break in period for the front. On the rear I had noticed nothing on the 1st drive but the front was different. There was a lot of torque steer to begin with. On low speed residential streets it was fine when going straight but with any amount of turn if you got on the gas it would try and straighten up. Most noticeable was when turning into or out of a T-Junction. There was a gap after that 1st run before I had chance to drive the truck again and in that time I contacted Expeditioneers and told them there might be an issue as it had a pretty bad dose of torque steer when I tried it. They in turn contacted Kaiser and asked what was going on. Kaiser came back and told them that there is a break in period and that it takes a few miles to loosen up. Since I hadn't noticed anything with the rear I was a little surprised but ready to carry on and see what happened. Kaiser also mentioned that it might be worse because I was driving a V8 Auto (a truck they haven't had any way to test it in before now as their test truck and most of the trucks in Brazil are diesel stick shifts) and that they would look at the potential differences.

The next time I took it out was for a much longer run. 50 or so miles of mixed paved roads to a trail and then a day of off roading and 50 miles back. On the way out it gradually loosened up and the torque steer got less. While on the trail I noticed nothing at all even on some higher speed soft or loose surface trails it drove fine. Steering wasn't affected at all as far as I could tell. This was the day that we took the videos on the play hill and then went on to run Lower Ajax trail. Lower Ajax is rated a 4.0+ trail on the 1-5 scale and is comprised of a wash bottom with lots of rocky areas interspaced with some deep sand and gravel spaces. It ran the trail faultlessly and there is some video up on Jon's page of the 'waterfall' obstacle here:



You can clearly see the front locker doing its thing yet I am able to steer normally.

Back on the pavement going home it was considerably less noticeable. Only really noticed it now when turning into or out of a junction at low speed. Just after you finished turning and where getting on the gas and straightening up it would try to straighten faster than you wanted a little for the last few degrees of turn.

Over the next couple of weeks as I drove it more the input to the steering continued to fade away. Since I wanted to make sure that it wasn't just me I had a friend who has driven a lot with front mounted trutracs drive the truck. I've never driven with a TT, only ever had an ARB up front before so I wanted a 2nd opinion. He drove it and said it was great. Said that there was a small amount of input into the steering but it was a lot less than a TT and as far as he was concerned it drove fine and if he didn't know better he would never believe there was an autolocker in there.

So I stopped worrying about it and drove the truck.

Put a few more road miles on it and drove a couple more trails. Last Friday night we drove Raw Deal trail up in the Table Mesa Area north of Phoenix. 75 mile drive up there for me on mostly freeways. Truck drove fine up there with no issues and the steering input was hardly noticeable anymore. On the trail it was awesome. We deliberately tried driving the trail as hard as possible. Took the worst of lines. Lifted wheels up on rocks and got as cross axled as we could. No problems. Truck went anywhere I pointed it. If I had a complaint I would say that it made it almost too easy.

Conclusion?

It does what is says on the tin. The Kaiser is an autolocker that is equally at home in the front as it is in the rear. It needs no input from the driver, no external activation systems to worry about, it's quiet, doesn't do anything odd like unloading at odd times, allows for driving on the street normally with full ability to steer but provides locked traction when its needed.

Update.

So last night I went out and ran Raw Deal again. Again I wanted to put the locker under as much stress as I could so I drove harder than I normally would and went out of my way to run odd lines and lift wheels, etc. as much as I could. This time I managed to break a front CV (remember I am running stock axles) very early on into the trail. Never heard it go, only knew it was broken when I had trouble with the right front locking up, limiting my right hand turn radius some and dragging from time to time while turned.

Stopped the truck, jacked the front up to check and confirmed I had no drive at the right front. Other than the occasional lock up it didn't seem to be hindering me much so I carried on. Drove the rest of the trail and then carried on with the rest of the group for a few more hours running less severe stuff. Had a great night and drove home 75 miles. All with a busted front CV. On the trail I never really had much issue. If the wheel locked up then I would back up slightly change line and go again and it was fine. On the loose stuff there was some tendency to pull to the side from time to time but nothing serious. On the ride home, I probably should have pulled the front prop shaft, but I didn't. The truck was a little squirrelly on the highway at speed sometimes since it was only getting drive from 3 wheels. Steering was a little vague and it wasn't fun if I tried to turn right and it locked up. But it got me home. The Kaiser is fine. Never bothered it. It kept on giving me drive to the front left and continued to do its thing.

Also heard more back from Expeditioneers. Kaiser had been in contact to tell them that they had made some changes to the locker to help counteract the initial torque steer issues and that future production units shouldn't show nearly as much of an issue as mine did. Testing it in a V8 Auto with a different torque curve and drive input and style had allowed them to 'tweak it' and make some changes.

Heres a few photos of the truck on Raw Deal and 1 of Lower Ajax.

Thanks

Ian
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  #49  
Old October 8th, 2010, 04:10 PM
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Andy Radlgruber
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My Kaisers should be here on Tuesday. These should help prevent the annoying hop I get going up steep loose rutted hill climbs as the truck fights for traction.
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  #50  
Old October 8th, 2010, 04:33 PM
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Joshua
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That British Racing Green paint is insane. Is it just me or does pic 5 of 5 look like a BLACK truck? Same truck as in the other pics (note license plate)...just the sun playing tricks.
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  #51  
Old October 9th, 2010, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
That British Racing Green paint is insane. Is it just me or does pic 5 of 5 look like a BLACK truck? Same truck as in the other pics (note license plate)...just the sun playing tricks.
Different location, different time of day and different camera, but yes same truck. Always loved BRG.
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  #52  
Old October 19th, 2010, 08:23 AM
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Michael Ullman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad View Post
My Kaisers should be here on Tuesday. These should help prevent the annoying hop I get going up steep loose rutted hill climbs as the truck fights for traction.

Have you gotten these installed yet? I would love to hear from someone else that has them in thier truck.
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  #53  
Old October 19th, 2010, 08:16 PM
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Ian Gregory
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Interested to hear another opinion as well. One just got installed in the back of a club members Truck that's up in Moab for the rally. White 98 D1, has a stripe down the sides saying 'water level' and AZLRO sticker. Owners name is Jon if you're there and see him, ask him what he thinks.
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  #54  
Old October 20th, 2010, 08:29 AM
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Michael Ullman
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Sadly, I am so busy with work and kids right now I'm having a hard time just getting out to play for a day.
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  #55  
Old February 15th, 2011, 09:02 AM
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Pantelis Giamarellos
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People Hi from Greece,

The d-90 forum is hosting this very interesting discussion related to the KAISER Lockers and I considered that it would be of your interest to see a few photos of such a locker being fitted on the rear axle of a Discovery 2 V8.

The rear axle unit has been fitted about 45 days and has proven to be a huge success.
The vehicle does NOT have the central locking option for the LT230 unit and as a result the owner had considerable trouble tackling serious offroading condition especially on deep ruts etc.

After fitting the KAISER locker on his rear axle the vehicle has been transformed and accessing difficult terrain that previously was considered as a big endeavour is now something which is done just for fun.











The complete set of photos can be found here

http://rapidshare.com/files/44770661...e_Pantelis.rar


The vehicle's owner is ready to fit the second unit on his front axle.

I will be posting more photos of the vehicle and hopefully a video after the second unit will be fitted on the front axle.

------------------------

Please bear in your mind that I do have a business connection with the KAISER Lockers since I am the exclusive importer and main distributor of this product for Greece and Cyprus.
Those two first units on this D2 were imported for test purposes after first reading about the KAISER some three years ago, corresponding with the factory since then and finally reading the posts on this and other forums.
I believe I owed it to the fellow LR enthusiasts from the D-90 to provide you with the input we now have after using the ΚΑΙSER on Greek soil. We will continue providing comments and input if you are interested.

Take care and best regards from Greece
Pantelis Giamarellos
LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE (founder) (www.lrcg.gr/forum)
PROSIMO O.E. (imports/exports, representations, publications)
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  #56  
Old February 15th, 2011, 11:12 AM
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Ian Gregory
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Hi Pantelis and welcome to the forum.

I've had mine in for about a year now and still going strong. Have another one fitted to another truck in our local club and thats running well too.

Be interested to hear how you get on with the front one. Are you fitting one of the new front versions? I know that Kaiser made some modifications after we gave them the feedback from mine.

Let us know how you get on.

Ian
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  #57  
Old February 15th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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John B.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantg View Post
The vehicle does NOT have the central locking option for the LT230 unit and as a result the owner had considerable trouble tackling serious offroading condition especially on deep ruts etc.

After fitting the KAISER locker on his rear axle the vehicle has been transformed and accessing difficult terrain that previously was considered as a big endeavour is now something which is done just for fun.
I'm sorry, but this statement makes little sense. How does fitting a rear locker with an open center diff help much? All drive can still go through the open front diff forcing the traction control to do all of the work like in the past. Really, getting the center diff lock working seems like it should be step one.
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  #58  
Old February 15th, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Daniel Chapman
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For the price, I'd still opt for the ARB.

But for the rear axle, if you wanted to stick with a manual carrier, the Detroit soft locker still seems best, IMO. Even more so in Rovers with an LT230. The Detroit in the rear of these Rovers does not have the characteristics of a Detroit in the rear of a Jeep or Toyota. You'd never know a Detroit is installed in a Rover with LT230 on the street.

The only place I see the Kaiser carrier beneficial is in the front axle. But again, it's $400.00 more than a True Track, and $50.00 more than an ARB. I guess the argument could be made that the Kaiser works better than the True Track in low traction situations. I don't know this to be the case, but let's say the Kaiser works better. Is it still worth $400.00 more? Is it going to lock up when you need it most? We know the True Track does not. But the ARB does and it's $50.00 less expensive.

So that leaves me to wonder who the target audience is for the Kaiser. It's not the guys running larger tires who like to play in the rocks. Those guy are running full lockers. So is the Kaiser designed for the weekend wheelers who like v-ditches, off-camber or rutted hill climbs, and snow? If so, the TT has been great in these situations.

There was an argument made some time ago about the Kaiser being "easier" on axles. I can't remember if that was in this thread or on Dweb. Either way it's bullshit. The stock Land Rover axles in D1's, RRC's and Defenders are crap. The D2's were slightly better, but they're still crap. It does not matter if you're running a stock carrier or an ARB, you need to upgrade the axles if you're driving off-road. Many times the Rover stock carrier will break before the stock axles do, but once you upgrade to a traction aid the stock axles are the next weak link. So axles need to be upgraded if going off road, and even more so if you're running a larger tire.

Just a few short years ago the only option we had for HD axles was GBR. GBR was raping peoples assholes with their prices; $1,500+ for front axles and something like $900 for rear axles. And even then you were not getting a great CV or axle. But today we have quality CV's and axles for a fraction of that cost; $400.00 for rear axles and $600.00 for fronts. Today we're not seeing the axle failures we saw 5-years ago. Because of the materials made available to us now (300m, 4140, 1541H, etc..) we now have axles that can handle reasonable abuse with no problems. So I do not see why it's a big selling point for the Kaiser to be "easier on axles". That's not really an issue any longer.

I'm sure the Kaiser is a good product. But I really do not see the benefit of owning this product. If it were priced at $500ea I could see it being a toss up between the TT. But that's not the case. You can buy two TT's for the cost of one Kaiser. It's just not worth it.
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  #59  
Old February 15th, 2011, 05:07 PM
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which is why when this guy posted a group buy for a front for only $550, I said I was interested: http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72221

we'll see if anything comes of it.
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  #60  
Old February 15th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Robbie are you coming to HH? I have some trailing arms for you.
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