The Latest Fight Over Car Importing - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old March 30th, 2016, 10:31 AM
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John B.
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See attached conversion manual. Specifically note page 14 where is discusses the improved emissions.
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  #22  
Old March 30th, 2016, 11:44 AM
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Frank Rafka
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Another question for you Will…

Is this a question of emissions or following the rules. If the engines are exempt, then what's the issue. If you follow the letter of the law, if you do a engine swap after the vehicle is here in the US then you lose the exemption.

This from the EPA guy:
If the vehicle is at least 21 years old (the age of the vehicle is determined by subtracting the calendar year of manufacture from the calendar year of importation). If the calendar year of manufacture is unavailable, the importer may substitute the model year or year of first registration. For instance, to qualify in 2001, the vehicle must have been manufactured in 1980 or earlier. The vehicle must be in its original unmodified configuration. Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines. This means that the engine needs to be a direct replacement (original replacement engine from the OEM) or an after market engine that was built to be identical to the original engine.

If a vehicle is imported under this rule and you change the engine to a different engine than what it was originally manufactured with then it would no longer be exempt under the age exemption and you would be manufacturing a new configuration (new motor vehicle) and would require the vehicle be certified to current EPA Federal emission standards. Once the vehicle is in the U.S. and governed by U.S. regulations then it would fall under engine tampering


Seems like its catch 22…ok, you can use the newer motor, but guess what, now your guilty of engine tampering…

thoughts...
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  #23  
Old March 30th, 2016, 01:46 PM
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It seems like a regulation with Gordian knot flavor.
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  #24  
Old March 31st, 2016, 09:47 PM
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Will Hedrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Another question for you Will… Is this a question of emissions or following the rules. If the engines are exempt, then what's the issue. If you follow the letter of the law, if you do a engine swap after the vehicle is here in the US then you lose the exemption.

Once the vehicle is in the U.S. and governed by U.S. regulations then it would fall under engine tampering Seems like its catch 22…ok, you can use the newer motor, but guess what, now your guilty of engine tampering… thoughts...
It's not a question of it being one or the other. It's both. The Environmental Protection Agency exists to "protect the environment". It's authority to regulate emissions of automobile engines as an executive agency is tied to that single purpose. But with this being the case, how then can it justify refusing to allow a vehicle to enter the country with a newer lower emission engine, but instead require the vehicle to have an older higher emission engine to be allowed into the US?* This would run completely contrary to the agency's function!

(*Note: The EPA actually argues that the 200Tdi produces MORE emissions than the 2.5N/A. However, they have provided no discernible evidence to substantiate this claim. Furthermore, my research has revealed significant evidence to the contrary (i.e., that the 200Tdi is a much cleaner burning engine than the 2.5N/A).

Government agencies are not infallible. Laws and regulations are struck down, repealed, and rewritten quite regularly. The EPA's interpretation of this particular regulation produces an absurd result, one that runs counter to the agency's overall intended objective. In light of this inconsistency, I'm attempting to alter how the EPA carries out the application of this regulation, so that it meets with a logical result, one that will be consistent with the agencies prime directive. If the EPA will not fix issue internally, then the only other option is to work through the courts to fix it externally.

Again, I'm not going to show all my cards here on the forum. But, I nonetheless hope that I've answered your question.
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  #25  
Old April 1st, 2016, 09:16 AM
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^^^ A fighter for the people! Thanks, Will.
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  #26  
Old April 27th, 2016, 03:31 PM
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Greetings from Kuwait (yep I’m back overseas). I know a few of you are wondering what the status of this case is. Well for now it appears that we are moving forward with bringing it to the Court of International Trade. Although there are a few issues, what it looks like it will boil down to is the word “equivalent”. The EPA responded to a congressional inquiry and what they’ve said is they interpret the word “equivalent” to mean identical. I’ve requested for them to show me where they have this definition in writing as it pertains to my situation and thus far I have not received a response. The definition of equivalent as it pertains to hybrids can be found in EPA regulations and it is in line with the common English meaning and does not mean identical. So for now we are preparing the necessary documentation to allow the case to be heard before the CIT. It’s a lengthy process and an expensive process. Mr. Hedrick is representing me pro-bono and for that I am grateful. The court costs alone will equal much more than my poor landy is worth and so I could not continue without Mr. Hedrick. I really appreciate all the words of encouragement and even those of dissent. The EPA is pretty hushed about it and it is difficult to get in touch with someone directly to discuss this particular situation. I gotta’ thank Andrew Collins for taking the time to gather information for the case and writing about it on Jalopnik. Now I need everyone out there to contact their representative and let them have an earful. I’ve been working through Congressman Mick Mulvaney’s Sumter, SC field office with some success. Stay tuned for further updates as the situation develops. Feel free to shoot me a line. Thanks again and I hope one day I’ll be out in the woods camping in my own Defender.
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  #27  
Old April 27th, 2016, 03:48 PM
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I have nothing to add but who ever thinks the Identical and "Equivalent" me the same thing? In construction specs that I read through I see "Equivalent" and "Approved Equal" all the time. If the spec calls for Model A and Model B and C do the same thing they are ok to submit but they are definitely not the same or identical.

Sorry but reading what the government interprets in this case stinks.

Thank you for your service.
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  #28  
Old April 30th, 2016, 07:03 AM
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If they won't allow it in and you want to ship it back, I will be happy to pick it up from Port, store it here on RAF Mildenhall and help you get the original engine installed. I hope it doesn't come to that but I'll throw it out there just in case.
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  #29  
Old April 30th, 2016, 01:56 PM
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atpick, thanks for the offer and I'll keep it in mind. When I was notified that Customs would not allow the import of the LR I asked them if I could send it to the UK for an engine swap then bring it back. They initially told me "no" then they said that I could try but they would not guarantee that they'd allow it in even after the engine swap. I had also asked them if I could send it to Canada or pull the engine at the port and they told me no. Is that a pic of you flying? What? Thanks again, the LR community has been very supportive.
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  #30  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 01:28 AM
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This is unbelievable! The federal government knows exactly what's going on with this specific LR and is fully aware of Will's involvement. And what do they do? They put it up for sale, on an auction, for export only and a starting bid of $1.00! What kind of BS is this? The auction won't start until 5/18, so hopefully Will will have enough time to go to the court and stop it.http://www.cwsauctions.com/lots/1214188/detail
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  #31  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 01:42 AM
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Just found more info on Chuck's (the owner) FB page.
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  #32  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 02:32 AM
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Omg! What an outlandish effort on behalf of the CBP! Just disgraceful!

Draw blood this time, Will. Good luck and all the best.
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  #33  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 02:36 AM
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I'd pitch in on the joint Defender Source account to bid on said auction, if anyone here happens to have the time and know-how to set up a Kickstarter, or the like... Just an idea.

I'm sure there are a few Canadians on here who wouldn't mind baby sitting it for a time.... Just an idea.
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  #34  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
I'd pitch in on the joint Defender Source account to bid on said auction, if anyone here happens to have the time and know-how to set up a Kickstarter, or the like... Just an idea. I'm sure there are a few Canadians on here who wouldn't mind baby sitting it for a time.... Just an idea.
I'd go in for that. And I've got a spot to park it, too.
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  #35  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 03:29 AM
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Why do all the import fights involve vehicles imported by serving US Military?
First Red110 now this.
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  #36  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 04:43 AM
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I'd kick in on buying this from the CBP for the owner. However, I believe that it would have to be shipped back to the UK. I remember reading something that vehicles that are refused entry cannot be shipped to Canada or Mexico. As well, wouldn't this VIN get tagged by Customs and probably be refused entry again even after an engine swap?


I am in the UK for the next couple years and I am willing to help out any way I can.
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  #37  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Why do all the import fights involve vehicles imported by serving US Military? First Red110 now this.
maybe it's purely based on the fact that military personnel are so often serving abroad.
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  #38  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Why do all the import fights involve vehicles imported by serving US Military?
First Red110 now this.
Probably because they can ship a vehicle for free and don't use an expert like Doug or Will to get it stateside.
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  #39  
Old May 3rd, 2016, 08:48 AM
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Agreed. Not to be that guy.....but we have all know for years a engine chassis swaps where a no go. I do hope Will can change that but just poor planning/research on the importer sadly
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  #40  
Old May 5th, 2016, 01:07 AM
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Chuck
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VICTORY! Well at least in the most recent battle concerning the unlawful auction of my Land Rover. I received an email from Customs stating “We have researched your situation and would like to inform you that the Port of Charleston is in the process of having the vehicle removed from general order auction.” It turns out that they violated their own policies by attempting to auction my vehicle that was part of a civil case, failed to notify me that they were auctioning my vehicle, and they violated my privacy rights by posting a picture of my personal information. I can’t help but see the irony of the situation. They’re denying entry of my vehicle based on their claim that it violates policy, then they turn around and break their own policies and violate federal law by posting my privacy information online. I suppose this is a case of “do as I say, not as I do.” Will Hedrick is demanding some answers as to why this happened.
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