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  #21  
Old May 8th, 2008, 08:34 AM
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Great reply ECR

Not done Defenders but have done a couple Jeeps to SEMA level, worked with Sam & Chip Foose ages ago.

Best summed up like this: Price - Quality - Speed = Pick any Two
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  #22  
Old May 8th, 2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsteil
It just sounds crazy to me to spend more on a motor conversion that what I paid for the truck.
I agree but what is sane about spending 25 - 30 grand on a very capable off-road vehicle and then driving it a few times a month like I do?

Wow, that sounded like my wife talking.
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  #23  
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsteil
It just sounds crazy to me to spend more on a motor conversion that what I paid for the truck.
What is crazy is buying any new vehicle for any price and selling it for 20% of its value 5 years later. I've sworn off new cars until I have money to throw away, until then, all my car money will be spent on something tangible. I'd rather buy two chassis, three motors, and 4 gearboxes for the same truck than lose tens of thousands in depreciation.

Oh, and ECR Mike - after you get done providing on-line quotes, please send your guys out to our houses to work for free and place your stock of parts up for sale cheap. That'd be great!
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  #24  
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Just FYI, if we do an evaluation on a truck we just give the customer the black and white info. We do not suggest they do, or do not do the work. What they have us do is up to them. We do not push customers to up sell work, actually it is quite the other way. We do not like it when projects "expand" once they get in the door. We'll happily do any safety related work, but adding on stuff is not encouraged as it screws with our scheduling.

You seem to have some pretty stupid ideas about who can do what for what, especially since you are not a customer of ours and have no experience with ECR to speak of. Get another shop to do the work to the same level we do with all new parts and the price would be the same or more. We are usually cheaper because we've done all this many times before so there is no "learning curve" and we stock all the parts to make this swap in house so there is no waiting for parts to arrive.
I was not trying to say that ECR was overpriced or slow, more of the opposite, it's the highest quality and due to that, has a long waiting time. The reason I went higher on the ECR quote was from reading your site, it appears that you do a lot of extras to make it right that other places may not do. I apologize if it came out any differently.
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  #25  
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:20 AM
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No worries. I though you meant apples to apples somewhere else would be less.
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  #26  
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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It really depends on what is in it now and what spec of 4.6 you want and whether you want new or used parts for the auto conversion.

Assuming it is a carbed V8 or similar, you are looking at mucho dinero unless you use used parts.

New 4.6 short block $5000.
New cam, lifters, rockers etc. $500
Used 14cux efi motor out of something with harness etc. $1000
Used trans out of a disco I with linkage etc. $700
Machine work for heads $300
Ashcroft center counsol $800
Misc auto conversion parts (pedal box etc.) $500

Labor 40 hours at $75 $3000

You could do it for 12k, but things like a new rad, new lines etc etc. add up.

OTOH a new or rebuilt ZF and a pursuit 4.6 and mostly new parts (I assume even ECR reuses some things which you would need to source if you are converting to 14CUX) and you could easily get to 20k.

What I would do is find a EFI 3.9 take out from a defender Tdi conversion and swap in a new 4.6 short block and then get a 94-95 DI transmission and flywheel.
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  #27  
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Thought I would add my two cents to this tread.

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  #28  
Old May 8th, 2008, 02:01 PM
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I didn't mean any harm by my comment either. After reading it again I can see how it came across negatively.

I hope to have my baby completely redone by ECR one day, too, and I fully expect to pay for the great service.
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  #29  
Old May 8th, 2008, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billakris
I didn't mean any harm by my comment either. After reading it again I can see how it came across negatively.

I hope to have my baby completely redone by ECR one day, too, and I fully expect to pay for the great service.
Me three, I am planning out the things I want done by ECR and am just trying to get a rough estimate of what things are going to cost so I know what I want and dont want. If I came off in a negative way it was not intended. Sticker shock wears off on anything once you know pros and cons of a top notch job.
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  #30  
Old May 8th, 2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
It really depends on what is in it now and what spec of 4.6 you want and whether you want new or used parts for the auto conversion.

Assuming it is a carbed V8 or similar, you are looking at mucho dinero unless you use used parts.

New 4.6 short block $5000.
New cam, lifters, rockers etc. $500
Used 14cux efi motor out of something with harness etc. $1000
Used trans out of a disco I with linkage etc. $700
Machine work for heads $300
Ashcroft center counsol $800
Misc auto conversion parts (pedal box etc.) $500

Labor 40 hours at $75 $3000

You could do it for 12k, but things like a new rad, new lines etc etc. add up.

OTOH a new or rebuilt ZF and a pursuit 4.6 and mostly new parts (I assume even ECR reuses some things which you would need to source if you are converting to 14CUX) and you could easily get to 20k.

What I would do is find a EFI 3.9 take out from a defender Tdi conversion and swap in a new 4.6 short block and then get a 94-95 DI transmission and flywheel.
WOW, I think you should open a Rover shop Ron,..... you just seem to have all the answers...... shadetree what?
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  #31  
Old May 8th, 2008, 05:42 PM
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Carey,

I wish, I am sure I would enjoy it more than what I do now. I was briefly in the business (I was a service writer, then parts guy and then parts manager), now I am merely a monday morning mechanic. I do still know parts though and in particular engine swaps. Back in the day, we sold a few bosch blocks for engine conversions on earlier trucks and figured out most of the ins and outs. (edit: and have been a shadetree mechanic by necessity as a multiple rover owner for 11 years).

I also still have the "back-up" 4.6 block still waiting for one of the rovers to have a block failure so I have some interest in all this. My plan (if one of the V8s fails) is to install it, the new crower cam I have (#229 I think), the new clowes timing chain, the new lifters, rockers and pushrods and use the 4.2 chip. I will use the 4.0 heads I rebuilt with the nitril or whatever spec valves. I already turned down a spare timing gear as a spacer. I consider this to be a budget engine build. Of course this is going into something that already has 14cux so it is an easier swap.

Also, FWIW, IIRC book retail time on a short block on a D-90 was in the 20+ hour range. Defenders are easier to do engine work on that a comparable disco or RRC. I looked it up when I bought my red 1994 before I figured out that it needed a new computer (which shorted the injectors and flooded the motor and caused it to burn oil from overfilling the sump) not a new motor.

Finally, someone mentioned that BP has one new 4.2 short block for $2k. I would consider that over the $5k+ for a 4.6 short block. Not much power difference in my experience.

Ron
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  #32  
Old May 9th, 2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
and by the way, the other Rover shops in our area have a higher labor rate than we do
yup....and proud of it !!
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #33  
Old May 9th, 2008, 08:51 AM
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Yeah, but for some reason these folks think we are the expensive ones, when you are down there with your one man show and tiny overhead costs and huge labor rates making the big bank.
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  #34  
Old May 9th, 2008, 02:59 PM
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I just love it when a parts man prices labor on a job.

Its so very lucrative and encompassing-not.

Rather like doing work for an insurance company or used car lot.
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  #35  
Old May 9th, 2008, 11:56 PM
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This tread cracks me up. People saying what they think and then panicking and taking it back. "Oh, errr, I meant, err, no disrespect, err, it's fair, err.

I'll say it, paying 20k for a 4.6 is mega-fantastic, bat-shit crazy. Nutto fantastico.

Now I am not saying that you don't get great work, or even that it is not a fair market price. What I am saying is that the image of the virgin Mary on a pice of toast got thousands and that was fair market price also. Damn people.
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  #36  
Old May 10th, 2008, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
This tread cracks me up. People saying what they think and then panicking and taking it back. "Oh, errr, I meant, err, no disrespect, err, it's fair, err.

I'll say it, paying 20k for a 4.6 is mega-fantastic, bat-shit crazy. Nutto fantastico.

Now I am not saying that you don't get great work, or even that it is not a fair market price. What I am saying is that the image of the virgin Mary on a pice of toast got thousands and that was fair market price also. Damn people.
So Buck, you basicaly said what I said in my first post on this thread. I think it is crazy to pay that kind of money but the two shops on this site I know have good reps have not talked any numbers(parts or labor) so is it really that much? Is it a secret? Like I said before if the job has been done many times should the number not be to far off for the same vehicle? Is this not the appropriate place for a shop to talk cost? And if it was me you were talking about my second thread was not panic, I am getting ready to spend big $ on my 110 and I want to make sure I spend it the right way.
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  #37  
Old May 10th, 2008, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsteil
So Buck, you basicaly said what I said in my first post on this thread. I think it is crazy to pay that kind of money but the two shops on this site I know have good reps have not talked any numbers(parts or labor) so is it really that much? Is it a secret? Like I said before if the job has been done many times should the number not be to far off for the same vehicle? Is this not the appropriate place for a shop to talk cost? And if it was me you were talking about my second thread was not panic, I am getting ready to spend big $ on my 110 and I want to make sure I spend it the right way.
pm me. We'll chat.
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  #38  
Old May 10th, 2008, 04:49 AM
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I don't think any shop would want to hang their price out here as a matter of public record. It only encourages other places to try and undercut them on price in a situation where there is no way to make a like-for-like comparison. I'm sure if you called Mike or Matt they'd be happy to talk to you about what it typically costs for them to do similar work, but I doubt anyone would take on the job for a specific quoted price. Every truck is different and every price ends up being a little different. Moreover, the shop guys that post here don't have to go out and beat the bushes to find business - we're more fellow hobbiests than potential customers.
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  #39  
Old May 10th, 2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Yeah, but for some reason these folks think we are the expensive ones, when you are down there with your one man show and tiny overhead costs and huge labor rates making the big bank.
Yup.....the big bank.......from what I know I don't think our prices differ much, labor rate yes, finished job, not so much. I may have a small shop (actually goes between 2-4 people) but I'd think the overhead per man is probably comparable, although I do my best try to minimalise it. That's just good business, right?

Anyhow...gotta run. Have to make sure the girls get the brass on the yacht polished right (tounge buffed) and the helicopter will be here soon for the ride to work.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
I don't think any shop would want to hang their price out here as a matter of public record. It only encourages other places to try and undercut them on price in a situation where there is no way to make a like-for-like comparison. I'm sure if you called Mike or Matt they'd be happy to talk to you about what it typically costs for them to do similar work, but I doubt anyone would take on the job for a specific quoted price. Every truck is different and every price ends up being a little different. Moreover, the shop guys that post here don't have to go out and beat the bushes to find business - we're more fellow hobbiests than potential customers.
Thanks for that Jim, you just hit the nail on the head (as far as I am concerned) and.....you just saved me a bunch of typing.

I'm not on here to advertise. Although I will say that Tdi's work fine with an autobox if you hold your tounge just right and lean forward when you hit the skinny pedal.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #40  
Old May 10th, 2008, 10:33 PM
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For what it is worth, which is probably nothing, Matt has always been very helpful on the phone and always talks to me like I am his best customer. In fact I am not a customer, but I have called him on a few occasions to ask questions about my 300 tdi disco and he always takes more time than he has, to explain and give advice.
So if you are looking for someone to work on your LR, he seems to be a great choice. I have never spoken to anyone at another repair shop that has taken the time and been as friendly on the phone as Matt. And I have been driving LR's for 13 years.

I only wish his shop wasn't 1000 miles from my house!
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