So how effective is the SD Roll Cage? - Page 3 - Defender Source
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  #41  
Old July 29th, 2015, 04:09 PM
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There is little comparison between car cage requirements for racing (SCCA/NASA/LeMons/Chump/etc) and the options available for a Defender. Nor is it a fare comparison (you would be safer on the track). But the basic rules are a 6 to 8 point cage using continuous tube of 1.5" dia x 0.095" wall DOM for < 2500 lbs and 1.75" dia x 0.095" wall DOM or 1.50" dia x 0.12" DOM for > 2500 lbs. Nobody goes larger (not necessary and it is too heavy). Various spreader plate and gusset requirement's based on vehicle weight as well. Cages bolted to the frame with backing plates are frowned upon, but Grade 8 hardware is required, as well for seats, seatbelts, and essentially everything else. We've seen some nasty single and multivehicle crashes and thankfully no compromised cages or related injuries. This E30 did multiple end overs and barrel rolls at 115-20 mph and the kid walked away with a sore shoulder. The car was obliterated down to the cage.
Not sure where I am going with this but 1.75" dia x 0.25" wall.... wow, that is some serious tubing. What was the thought for going that large and (top) heavy?
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  #42  
Old July 29th, 2015, 06:59 PM
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Russ, to be clear we only used that material from the A-C hoops to eliminate the internal b hoop. My buddy who builds stock cars uses several different thickness materials, thinnest he is aloud to use per code is .120 wall. As for design there is a big difference when talking internal on a race car and external on a 14Ft truck that weighs two to three times the amount.

------ Follow up post added July 29th, 2015 07:07 PM ------

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So they at just extras, like a bottle opener or light tabs? -Jeff
Just like a bottle opener...
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  #43  
Old July 30th, 2015, 01:30 PM
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In the pictures posted of rollovers it looks to me, even though the rollcage didn't hold up very well, you probably still would have survived in the rollcage equipped Defender and possibly not in the ones without. That's what really matters. I wouldn't drive a Defender without one, especially a soft top. And don't forget it's also a bad idea to use SS fasteners because they'll exacerbate galvanic corrosion. Galvanic Corrosion Chart | Galvanic Compatibility - Anodic Index - Cathodic
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  #44  
Old July 30th, 2015, 02:08 PM
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To me, the SD cages are like roll over protection on newer construction and farm equipment. They will bend and absorb energy to try and give you a fighting chance. Having a perfectly solid cage is great if you are wearing a race harness with a neck brace but I don't think it is particularly helpful for our type of use.
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  #45  
Old July 30th, 2015, 02:48 PM
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So some say don't use stainless steel, others say welding doesn't work any better than bolts but some say SS is great ditto welding

Forget the roll cage. With all this conflicting information my brain is going to explode.
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  #46  
Old July 30th, 2015, 03:11 PM
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This conversation comes up as often as the what is legal thread. You can argue it to death. It is funny how enthusiasts in the US are obsessed with roll cages. I wonder if the NAS 110 didn't have one if that would be the case. I am all for kids being safe, but the likely hood of rolling one of these things is low. Everyone keeps posting photos of all the these trucks rolled but what percentage of the total ever sold is that?

I have said it before but if you care about your well being and those of your passengers you should have some heavyduty sliders for side impacts that are more likely than rolling. Or if you are worried don't drive a defender with passengers.

If you offroader or are just plain extreme like Horsey (wish I had a picture of him drinking a mountain dew) then by all means a cage is probably helpful.

Wait I do have a pic of him drinking a mountain dew.
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  #47  
Old July 30th, 2015, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
In the pictures posted of rollovers it looks to me, even though the rollcage didn't hold up very well, you probably still would have survived in the rollcage equipped Defender and possibly not in the ones without. That's what really matters. I wouldn't drive a Defender without one, especially a soft top. And don't forget it's also a bad idea to use SS fasteners because they'll exacerbate galvanic corrosion. Galvanic Corrosion Chart | Galvanic Compatibility - Anodic Index - Cathodic
When you install the SD cage only insulation contacts the aluminum. On the front legs you have a rubber gasket. On the other legs you use a preformed foam gasket. Then on top of that everything has a very thick coating of Powdercoat. When you bolt it together you bolt metal to metal. Absolutely NO problem using a good grade of stainless.
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  #48  
Old August 1st, 2015, 07:07 AM
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Simply not accurate. I wish it was so I didn't have to deal with the results but SS does not belong on a Land Rover body and definitely not a roll cage. Yes you can get SS that will fill the technical requirements for strength but you prob won't buy them when you see the price.
I can't figure out what the issue is with the supplied 10.9 fastenings or similar.
The original question……SD cages are a soft roll protection. Better than nothing but they still fold right up and that might be the idea. No meaningful diagonal components. P&P makes a version with an internal / external set up the uses shear strength between these 2 components to create a much stronger B/C type hoop.
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  #49  
Old August 1st, 2015, 07:21 AM
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I'm honest enough to say that when it really boils down to it - a roll cage is just a false sense of security. Sure, it will add safety in SOME cases.... But if I end up in a 60 mph barrel-roll it won't be an easy day.

I compare it to my glory days riding motorcycles... I wore full-face, gloved, Sidi boots, leathers, etc... All of which are great safety kit for a variety of crashes. Hit a tree at speed though and you may as well be wearing tennis shoes and a t-shirt!
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  #50  
Old August 1st, 2015, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by junkyddog11 View Post
Simply not accurate. I wish it was so I didn't have to deal with the results but SS does not belong on a Land Rover body and definitely not a roll cage. Yes you can get SS that will fill the technical requirements for strength but you prob won't buy them when you see the price.
I can't figure out what the issue is with the supplied 10.9 fastenings or similar.
The original question……SD cages are a soft roll protection. Better than nothing but they still fold right up and that might be the idea. No meaningful diagonal components. P&P makes a version with an internal / external set up the uses shear strength between these 2 components to create a much stronger B/C type hoop.
The SD cages have an internal B hoop.
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  #51  
Old August 1st, 2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
I'm honest enough to say that when it really boils down to it - a roll cage is just a false sense of security. Sure, it will add safety in SOME cases.... But if I end up in a 60 mph barrel-roll it won't be an easy day. I compare it to my glory days riding motorcycles... I wore full-face, gloved, Sidi boots, leathers, etc... All of which are great safety kit for a variety of crashes. Hit a tree at speed though and you may as well be wearing tennis shoes and a t-shirt!
I'm in the camp of ANY opportunity to absorb energy that is not your head is worth while.
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  #52  
Old August 1st, 2015, 02:29 PM
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It is true, a roll cage whether it is SD, P&P, or home brew will not protect you from an IED, a flood, a death ray, or numerous other ways of dying prematurely. It will however offer protection for whatever parameters it was engineered and certified for. I'm OK with my single serving cage not turning my Rover into Wolverine and Captain America. I do appreciate though that it was designed by a roll-cage company that does this for a living, that said company hasn't been sued into oblivion, and that my cage is clearly stronger than he aluminum can it protects.
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  #53  
Old August 1st, 2015, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
This conversation comes up as often as the what is legal thread. You can argue it to death. It is funny how enthusiasts in the US are obsessed with roll cages. I wonder if the NAS 110 didn't have one if that would be the case. I am all for kids being safe, but the likely hood of rolling one of these things is low. Everyone keeps posting photos of all the these trucks rolled but what percentage of the total ever sold is that?

I agree 100% the underlined statement!

Much more important than an exo-cage.... is 2 or 3 good fire extinguishers!

I'm sure more Defenders have died due to fire than to rollover.


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  #54  
Old August 1st, 2015, 04:56 PM
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So I didn't read the whole thread. But just going from my race car experience a cage has no business whatsoever inside a vehicle without the rest if the proper safety gear. Helmet, harness, bar padding etc. your putting solid metal closer to your head and body and guess what happens in a rollover when your unprotected skull smacks that. Yeah use your imagination

I'm not saying these trucks were designed with safety in mind but putting a 1.75" bar inside of them just adds to be equation.

External roll cages are safer from a everyday use perspective for sure. I don't know if the SD cage really helps but it's not gonna hurt in 99.9999% of the cases.

As for bolted vs welded......well you'll never see a bolted cage in a rally car I can tell you that. Not that they can't be made strong, but take the best of both and a welded cage is going to be better. A lot of that also has to do with rigidity and the bonus of chassis stiffening you get from a welded cage as well. But it goes beyond that, proper geometry, anchoring, gussets, bend placement etc etc
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  #55  
Old August 1st, 2015, 06:15 PM
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I've rolled a row 110 over with my family in it 5 years ago....was a low speed roll over, the damage was incredible. The entire roof line shifted... needed all new doors, roof, etc. etc. Thankfully, no one was injured. But the amount of damage left me wondering about what if this had been a tad faster....yikes.
The accident happened up in Cape Breton, NS. It al ost ruined our vacation...but the good hearted folks up there that came to our rescue and helped me duct tae, weld, bolt her up with temp repairs left us with a strong positive feeling about the Canadian spirit!

We drove the crippled beast back with out further incident ..other than glares and stares (surprised the trooper didn't stop us).

We rebuilt her with an SD cage...I won't let my kids get in one without a cage ever again. false sense of security? perhaps. But I've seen first hand what a low speed roll over can do to one of these. not pretty.
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  #56  
Old April 10th, 2016, 09:10 PM
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Guys I'm bringing back this old thread. There is some great stuff here. Thank you! This is why I joined the forum.
Two questions:

Do any of you know if there is an external cage that us compatible with the ribbed roof. I checked out SD and they won't work.

I also looked and couldn't find an answer to whether or not the NAS cage (in and out) would work in my ROW once I remove the rear bulkhead.
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  #57  
Old April 10th, 2016, 09:59 PM
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  #58  
Old April 10th, 2016, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ's FJ View Post
Guys I'm bringing back this old thread. There is some great stuff here. Thank you! This is why I joined the forum.
Two questions:

Do any of you know if there is an external cage that us compatible with the ribbed roof. I checked out SD and they won't work.

I also looked and couldn't find an answer to whether or not the NAS cage (in and out) would work in my ROW once I remove the rear bulkhead.
90 or 110? Home market or other? If a 90 check my build B777 ONR for SD internal roll cage
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  #59  
Old April 10th, 2016, 10:15 PM
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Dimple the ribs and it works.
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  #60  
Old April 10th, 2016, 10:24 PM
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roll cage is a one time use....... duck and roll.... : )))
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