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  #1  
Old September 12th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Leo O'Farrell
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Size and comfort, Jeep or D90

Hi,

I'm new here and have a question about D90 size and comfort. I'm on my 3rd Jeep, a 2000 Wrangler Sahara that I bought new 10 years ago. Previously, I owned a 91 Wrangler also purchased new for about four years and a CJ7 purchased used. All these Jeeps are manual transmission vehicles with six cylinder engines.

I'm a bit over 6'3" and around 230 pounds. Have found the Wranglers fairly comfortable, in that a lot of my height is in my torso, so headroom is often the limiting factor, not leg room.

I now have three young kids 9,11,13 and we can't all fit in the Jeep with my wife. So, would I fit comfortably in a D90 or Series Landrover? How would the seating in the back of the D90 work for growing kids. They want to go offroading, something I haven't done much of despite owning three jeeps over the years.

I plan on selling the Jeep and a early 1995 Porsche 993 Carerra to get a Defender. Think the 110 is out of reach. Am also considering just trying to move the Jeep and get a Series III - is this crazy?

I often do not drive during the work week and use a bike and public transportation to get around.

I've also starting noticing LandRovers everywhere I and plan on getting one.

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated. I live in the SF Bay area and guess I could just go to a dealer and test one.
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  #2  
Old September 12th, 2010, 08:35 PM
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Bill Adams
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6'3" and around 230 pounds.

You will find a Defender to be tight. There are rail kits which will allow you to move the seat back more. On long trips the lack of foot room and the limited seat space will make it more fatiguing.
If you are used to a Wrangler the jump to a Defender isn't so great, they both ride like a bucket on square wheels.

A series three is more or less the same as far as comfort is concerned. The earlier Rovers are as you might expect, a bit more spartan. That goes for the engineering as well. You get drum brakes, leaf springs, carburetors and minimal electrical system. Quaint, but for a family trip maybe not so great.. Better a modern truck with disc brakes, fuel injection, seat belts etc that is a bit more up to date.
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  #3  
Old September 12th, 2010, 09:56 PM
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Family of 5 in a 90? Not a chance in hell.

A NEW 110, OK. A New 4 door Wrangler, sure. A 90 or a TJ, no chance.
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  #4  
Old September 13th, 2010, 12:18 AM
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I doubt a 90 or SWB series would meet your needs, a 110 would be a better fit but if you have already determined that is too much of a stretch budget wise for a purchase the upkeep and repairs would just compound the issue.

A DII might be a good option, they do great offroad while providing a nice amount of comfort / options. You could get a real nice one and add some off-road goodies for half what a nice 90 would run you. Some may say a RRC or DI but I was thinking the DII might be a better option for you as the windscreen is higher and the seats are a huge improvement over the rrc / DI

I feel like a traitor saying this but… I guess a 4 door wrangler would work and you could get one new for the price of a 13 - 15 year old D90.

Go test drive a 2004 DII and see what you think
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  #5  
Old September 13th, 2010, 06:14 AM
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Wouldn't a 1983-85 110 fit in that budget? If you don't mind driving something RHD.
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  #6  
Old September 13th, 2010, 08:35 AM
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I agree that a Disco would fill the bill if you really want a LR. But a far better choice is a 95-97 Toyota Land Cruiser with factory lockers. 3rd row seats, reliable and you have factory lockers, strong running gear and can fit 33's on the stock suspension.
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  #7  
Old September 13th, 2010, 08:58 AM
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Eric Siepmann
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Series will not fit you needs. Period. Get one when you either don't need a car or have a reliable one already.
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  #8  
Old September 13th, 2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo O'Farrell View Post

I plan on selling the ... 1995 Porsche 993 Carerra to get a Defender.

Pics of the 993!
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  #9  
Old September 13th, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo O'Farrell View Post
I live in the SF Bay area and guess I could just go to a dealer and test one.
Got a link for a dealership with Series and Defenders on the lot ? Sounds like a neat place.
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  #10  
Old September 13th, 2010, 12:46 PM
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Also the front seats on a Jeep flip forwad to allow access to the back seat whereas on a D-90 your kids will have to crawl over and between the seats to get in the back. Of course this is assuming a soft top
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  #11  
Old September 13th, 2010, 12:59 PM
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Brad Harris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Family of 5 in a 90? Not a chance in hell.

A NEW 110, OK. A New 4 door Wrangler, sure. A 90 or a TJ, no chance.
bite me

I regularly put wife and 4 kids in my D90 and go offroading and they all love it and ask for more...

I've taken them on long(ish) road trips to go offroad and they've been fine... (8+ hours each way) I have to use a roofrack to hold all the gear for any trip of length so I'm more top heavy then I would like but we have a great time!

My D90 has seating for 7 It's like a mini-van that's actually fun to drive (okay sitting 7 is squishy but everyone gets to ride in the Defender)
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  #12  
Old September 13th, 2010, 01:24 PM
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a SD rack and jump seats and you'll be fine. I'm 6'1" 210 and it isn't uncomfortable, but i dont usually go further than Tahoe.
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  #13  
Old September 13th, 2010, 01:31 PM
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I think your best bet is an 04 D2. With few mods you'll get a good compromise (2" lift + roof rack + bumper).
They do very good off road and they have plenty space inside.

But it's not a D or a serie ...
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  #14  
Old September 13th, 2010, 01:34 PM
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Size wise you will fit fine in a D90, but you will need to eliminate one of the childern to make it work. A D90 is a good bit bigger than a TJ, but with five people you need a 110.
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  #15  
Old September 13th, 2010, 01:45 PM
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Leo - we're both in Alameda. If you want to sit in/drive a 110, I have one here. Up front is pretty much the same as a D-90 (head room/leg room wise)

pm or e-mail me if interested
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  #16  
Old September 13th, 2010, 01:56 PM
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if you make it into the city (in the marina) you're welcome to check out my 90, but i have a bench seat. definitely cant fit 5 ppl (or so the california highway patrol has told me on 2 occasions)
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  #17  
Old September 13th, 2010, 04:21 PM
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second the fj80. hell a 100 series would fit the bill and they are getting cheap. anything with 100k miles in a LC will out last any /disco you'll find, if long term reliability/$$$/resale is a concern. i have an lx470 and a gwagon and had a 110. its not just the foot well, but at your bulk its the shoulder room too. the D hardpoints evolved from a 1948 jeep and it shows. you better have a family of 5'10" 160 pound marines.

if youre really into unusual and boxy, the G may fit the bill, as the front cockpit will fit your size, but i dont think the third row seats were a US option, and the prices ive seen make Exmoor stuff seem a bargain. also the gain in passenger layout means theres less storage than a 110.


in response to someone wanting a comparison of what ive run on a different site, i typed up this bullshit...

-----------------

lets see... ill compare the fj, the lx470, the g, and 110nas (unloaded it this year)

everything is anecdotal. meaning, it could be technically wrong on paper!

alterations to rig....

gwagon, +2" tires mich ltx street tires
fj, bfg km2's 10.5/33's +3" suspention but its OME heavy duty rears h55f (rear arb disconnected)
110NAS +1 springs stock for '93 tube mich x's (old rock hard skinnies)
LX, 285/75/16 bfg18's




turning radius/off road maneuverability (sans trees)

1 the fj.... well duhhhhh.
2 tight race, but the nod goes to the 110 because it isnt as wide as...
3 the LX. its good but you still feel like youre wheeling a whale
4 gwagon, ya always gotta 3 point turn that *****

with trees

1 fj again
2 gwagon
3 lx
4 110 (never went NEAR a tree with that thing)

cross axle... ability to keep all four planted (not the same as an rti score)

1 110... yea, tough call but the loner wb and the soft coils made the....
2 railroad tie leafs on the swb fj suffer.
t4 the lx suffers from the ind front end
t4 but there is ls little excuse besides the germans wernt into wheeling when they set up a suspension with coils, live axle, and little play.

highway ride

1 LX, retardedly smooth. opinion preference for long trips.
2 gwagon, it lacks the fluid jounce and rebound control of the LX system and tries to make up for it with firm german street settings.. and it almost works! in fact if youre into a real 4wd truck that makes you speed too, this is it.
3 110 its good. i think i like it more than some rover aficionados. but thats an NAS... the other lacking the SD cage will likely loosen up considerably.
fj... well duhhhhh..

high speed pittsburgh driving bad potholes on sanfran like hill street grid..

1 lx. if you remeber how cars leaped and smashes on traversing cross streets on hills in Bullet, or streets of san fran... this truck will let you down. it takes sudden changes like a baja racer. no air, no driving the bumper in the ground.
potholes? little quiver, not much.
2 110, surprised? i was. i think the soft springs and great approach departure angles make up for being stone age compared to an lx. it aint cushy... but you dont wince either
3 the g doesnt bottom out because the g takes that **** out on you instead. its not jarring... but the lack of play when hitting a live axle square on the obstacle shows.
6 fj.. suicide. you wont bottom out, the car will look great, but you'll still be dead.


plain ol' off road all conditions trip....

1 gwagon. solid stucture, full lockers. easy to place because of shape (thats big). its a tank offroad. i love it.
2 mmmmmmmmm fj. the short comings of the wb are also its virtue. eaaaasy to maneuver makes for a low stress day.
3 110 very out of the box capable. more overlander than wheeler in design, itll shock you off road. stock lockers woulda made it tops.
4 lx, its a capable pig, but a pig none the less.

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 04:27 PM ------

second the fj80. hell a 100 series would fit the bill and they are getting cheap. anything with 100k miles in a LC will out last any /disco you'll find, if long term reliability/$$$/resale is a concern. i have an lx470 and a gwagon and had a 110. its not just the foot well, but at your bulk its the shoulder room too. the D hardpoints evolved from a 1948 jeep and it shows. you better have a family of 5'10" 160 pound marines.

if youre really into unusual and boxy, the G may fit the bill, as the front cockpit will fit your size, but i dont think the third row seats were a US option, and the prices ive seen make Exmoor stuff seem a bargain. also the gain in passenger layout means theres less storage than a 110.


in response to someone wanting a comparison of what ive run on a different site, i typed up this bullshit...

-----------------

lets see... ill compare the fj, the lx470, the g, and 110nas (unloaded it this year)

everything is anecdotal. meaning, it could be technically wrong on paper!

alterations to rig....

gwagon, +2" tires mich ltx street tires
fj, bfg km2's 10.5/33's +3" suspention but its OME heavy duty rears h55f (rear arb disconnected)
110NAS +1 springs stock for '93 tube mich x's (old rock hard skinnies)
LX, 285/75/16 bfg18's




turning radius/off road maneuverability (sans trees)

1 the fj.... well duhhhhh.
2 tight race, but the nod goes to the 110 because it isnt as wide as...
3 the LX. its good but you still feel like youre wheeling a whale
4 gwagon, ya always gotta 3 point turn that *****

with trees

1 fj again
2 gwagon
3 lx
4 110 (never went NEAR a tree with that thing)

cross axle... ability to keep all four planted (not the same as an rti score)

1 110... yea, tough call but the loner wb and the soft coils made the....
2 railroad tie leafs on the swb fj suffer.
t4 the lx suffers from the ind front end
t4 but there is ls little excuse besides the germans wernt into wheeling when they set up a suspension with coils, live axle, and little play.

highway ride

1 LX, retardedly smooth. opinion preference for long trips.
2 gwagon, it lacks the fluid jounce and rebound control of the LX system and tries to make up for it with firm german street settings.. and it almost works! in fact if youre into a real 4wd truck that makes you speed too, this is it.
3 110 its good. i think i like it more than some rover aficionados. but thats an NAS... the other lacking the SD cage will likely loosen up considerably.
fj... well duhhhhh..

high speed pittsburgh driving bad potholes on sanfran like hill street grid..

1 lx. if you remeber how cars leaped and smashes on traversing cross streets on hills in Bullet, or streets of san fran... this truck will let you down. it takes sudden changes like a baja racer. no air, no driving the bumper in the ground.
potholes? little quiver, not much.
2 110, surprised? i was. i think the soft springs and great approach departure angles make up for being stone age compared to an lx. it aint cushy... but you dont wince either
3 the g doesnt bottom out because the g takes that **** out on you instead. its not jarring... but the lack of play when hitting a live axle square on the obstacle shows.
6 fj.. suicide. you wont bottom out, the car will look great, but you'll still be dead.


plain ol' off road all conditions trip....

1 gwagon. solid stucture, full lockers. easy to place because of shape (thats big). its a tank offroad. i love it.
2 mmmmmmmmm fj. the short comings of the wb are also its virtue. eaaaasy to maneuver makes for a low stress day.
3 110 very out of the box capable. more overlander than wheeler in design, itll shock you off road. stock lockers woulda made it tops.
4 lx, its a capable pig, but a pig none the less.

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 04:28 PM ------

second the fj80. hell a 100 series would fit the bill and they are getting cheap. anything with 100k miles in a LC will out last any /disco you'll find, if long term reliability/$$$/resale is a concern. i have an lx470 and a gwagon and had a 110. its not just the foot well, but at your bulk its the shoulder room too. the D hardpoints evolved from a 1948 jeep and it shows. you better have a family of 5'10" 160 pound marines.

if youre really into unusual and boxy, the G may fit the bill, as the front cockpit will fit your size, but i dont think the third row seats were a US option, and the prices ive seen make Exmoor stuff seem a bargain. also the gain in passenger layout means theres less storage than a 110.


in response to someone wanting a comparison of what ive run on a different site, i typed up this bullshit...

-----------------

lets see... ill compare the fj, the lx470, the g, and 110nas (unloaded it this year)

everything is anecdotal. meaning, it could be technically wrong on paper!

alterations to rig....

gwagon, +2" tires mich ltx street tires
fj, bfg km2's 10.5/33's +3" suspention but its OME heavy duty rears h55f (rear arb disconnected)
110NAS +1 springs stock for '93 tube mich x's (old rock hard skinnies)
LX, 285/75/16 bfg18's




turning radius/off road maneuverability (sans trees)

1 the fj.... well duhhhhh.
2 tight race, but the nod goes to the 110 because it isnt as wide as...
3 the LX. its good but you still feel like youre wheeling a whale
4 gwagon, ya always gotta 3 point turn that *****

with trees

1 fj again
2 gwagon
3 lx
4 110 (never went NEAR a tree with that thing)

cross axle... ability to keep all four planted (not the same as an rti score)

1 110... yea, tough call but the loner wb and the soft coils made the....
2 railroad tie leafs on the swb fj suffer.
t4 the lx suffers from the ind front end
t4 but there is ls little excuse besides the germans wernt into wheeling when they set up a suspension with coils, live axle, and little play.

highway ride

1 LX, retardedly smooth. opinion preference for long trips.
2 gwagon, it lacks the fluid jounce and rebound control of the LX system and tries to make up for it with firm german street settings.. and it almost works! in fact if youre into a real 4wd truck that makes you speed too, this is it.
3 110 its good. i think i like it more than some rover aficionados. but thats an NAS... the other lacking the SD cage will likely loosen up considerably.
fj... well duhhhhh..

high speed pittsburgh driving bad potholes on sanfran like hill street grid..

1 lx. if you remeber how cars leaped and smashes on traversing cross streets on hills in Bullet, or streets of san fran... this truck will let you down. it takes sudden changes like a baja racer. no air, no driving the bumper in the ground.
potholes? little quiver, not much.
2 110, surprised? i was. i think the soft springs and great approach departure angles make up for being stone age compared to an lx. it aint cushy... but you dont wince either
3 the g doesnt bottom out because the g takes that **** out on you instead. its not jarring... but the lack of play when hitting a live axle square on the obstacle shows.
6 fj.. suicide. you wont bottom out, the car will look great, but you'll still be dead.


plain ol' off road all conditions trip....

1 gwagon. solid stucture, full lockers. easy to place because of shape (thats big). its a tank offroad. i love it.
2 mmmmmmmmm fj. the short comings of the wb are also its virtue. eaaaasy to maneuver makes for a low stress day.
3 110 very out of the box capable. more overlander than wheeler in design, itll shock you off road. stock lockers woulda made it tops.
4 lx, its a capable pig, but a pig none the less.
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  #18  
Old September 13th, 2010, 07:29 PM
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I agree with dave lucas a D2 or a D3 would be a good buy, or I can sell u a refurbished early 110! But for your needs I'd personally go with a D3
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  #19  
Old September 13th, 2010, 11:54 PM
Leo O'Farrell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16kpsi View Post
Leo - we're both in Alameda. If you want to sit in/drive a 110, I have one here. Up front is pretty much the same as a D-90 (head room/leg room wise)

pm or e-mail me if interested
pm sent

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 08:56 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers View Post
I agree with dave lucas a D2 or a D3 would be a good buy, or I can sell u a refurbished early 110! But for your needs I'd personally go with a D3
Need to read up on the grey market for importing Defenders. Living in California, we have quite a few regulations about smog, and other requirements. One thing that appeals to me about Land Rover, is that while I was born in England, I've lived in US for 48 years and never owned an English car.

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 08:58 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFD View Post
I think your best bet is an 04 D2. With few mods you'll get a good compromise (2" lift + roof rack + bumper).
They do very good off road and they have plenty space inside.

But it's not a D or a serie ...
A couple of people have made this suggestion, so I'll also look into this model, seems quite a few on the local Craigs list for a good price.

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 09:00 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bharris View Post
bite me

I regularly put wife and 4 kids in my D90 and go offroading and they all love it and ask for more...

I've taken them on long(ish) road trips to go offroad and they've been fine... (8+ hours each way) I have to use a roofrack to hold all the gear for any trip of length so I'm more top heavy then I would like but we have a great time!

My D90 has seating for 7 It's like a mini-van that's actually fun to drive (okay sitting 7 is squishy but everyone gets to ride in the Defender)
That's sortof what I was thinking, a hard top (station wagen) with the jump seats. Do you get the seventh seat in the middle of the front?

------ Follow up post added September 13th, 2010 09:05 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
Got a link for a dealership with Series and Defenders on the lot ? Sounds like a neat place.
Thinking of a place like http://www.carsauto.com/used-inventory.htm in the area that sell some high end cars that often seem to have a refurbished Series or D90 or 110 on offer. A couple of men have offered to sit/ride their defenders. This is much appreciated.
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  #20  
Old September 14th, 2010, 07:29 AM
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You forgot my reply. Pics of the 1995 993!
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