SFO Crash - ATC Audio - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 7th, 2013, 04:17 PM
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SFO Crash - ATC Audio

If any of you are also pilot types, listening to things go wrong very quickly for the poor tower controller, hear the 777 pilots still in the cockpit arranging an emergency response as their plane burns (nice electrical redundancy Boeing!), and all of the other pilots from bug smashers to 747s get diverted... all while the controller keeps his sanity.... is pretty amazing.

http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3
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  #2  
Old July 7th, 2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
If any of you are also pilot types, listening to things go wrong very quickly for the poor tower controller, hear the 777 pilots still in the cockpit arranging an emergency response as their plane burns (nice electrical redundancy Boeing!), and all of the other pilots from bug smashers to 747s get diverted... all while the controller keeps his sanity.... is pretty amazing.

http://wandr.me/Audio/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3
I've been on that plane .. Earlier this year. Guess I won't be going on it again.
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  #3  
Old July 7th, 2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
I've been on that plane .. Earlier this year. Guess I won't be going on it again.
You mean a 777? It has one of the best safety records in aviation. You can't blame Boeing for the pilot flying it into the ground.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:14 PM
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I'm filing this one away in the Pilot/Human error.
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  #5  
Old July 7th, 2013, 05:23 PM
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You never know. Could be like the 777 at LHR in 08. With out seeing his glide path, and speed no way to tell yet.

It's ether lack of power on final due to mechanical or pilot error.

Sad but having been a pilot with the airlines I know better.....it's usually pilot error.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
You never know. Could be like the 777 at LHR in 08. With out seeing his glide path, and speed no way to tell yet.

It's ether lack of power on final due to mechanical or pilot error.

Sad but having been a pilot with the airlines I know better.....it's usually pilot error.
The airline has already announced it was not a mechanical failure, and a few eye witnesses have said he came in way too low and hit the landfill that builds up to the runway (those who have flown in to SFO know how that is).

ILS was offline (NOTAM was issued), the pilot was shooting a VFR approach with no automation except radar altimeter, which is extremely bad for SFO due to the over-the-bay approach.
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  #7  
Old July 7th, 2013, 05:30 PM
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No vasi or anything on that runway? I'm a EWR, IAD, PHL kind of guy. You guys and your crazy west cost airports

------ Follow up post added July 7th, 2013 05:33 PM ------

ILS goes down at Newark world pretty much goes to shit.....never mind when they get ballsy amd try to take of and land on just 29.....with a circle to land.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
No vasi or anything on that runway? I'm a EWR, IAD, PHL kind of guy. You guys and your crazy west cost airports
Good question... they should have a VASI. I would have to pull the plate and look. But if you are a lazy 777 captain and always just shoot the autoland.... VASI isn't gonna help you much.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:47 PM
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They don't have VASI at SFO, they have PAPI...

Approach Plate for an ILS 28R Approach: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1307/00375ILZ28R.PDF
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

Chicken. Or are talking about that exact plane (HL7742)

-Jeff
That exact plane. I flew SFO to Korea earlier this year on Asiana.
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  #11  
Old July 7th, 2013, 05:52 PM
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Sounds like epic pilot fail
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Old July 7th, 2013, 05:53 PM
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See the film CNN has. That tells the story of the landing.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #13  
Old July 7th, 2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
ILS was offline (NOTAM was issued), the pilot was shooting a VFR approach with no automation except radar altimeter, which is extremely bad for SFO due to the over-the-bay approach.
Using their FMC the could have and should have built their own 3 degree approach path. You still hand fly it but you have an actual reference to decend by. I do it whenever I am flying to any runway without an ILS. An approach is an approach, over the water or over the land, doesn't matter so I disagree there. SFO isnt any more challenging than any other airport.
This will probably turn into a cultural situation. In most Asian cultures the elder or the captain is always right and his FO probably knew it was going to happen before the captain made any effort to correct the massive sink rate he had going.
Very sad but if the would have hit a few hundred feet earlier there would have been countless casualties instead of just two. A few hundred feet further down the runway and we would be talking Rovers instead of this.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

In the neighborhood, and you dont bother to call?

-Jeff
Oops ..
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #15  
Old July 7th, 2013, 08:31 PM
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From the article below the NTSB is reporting the cause as something a student pilot would do. They got to slow and waited to long to react.

Fox News Link

I can't believe how low time all the pilots were. I fly with first officers that have more experience than either captain.
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  #16  
Old July 7th, 2013, 09:05 PM
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Sounds like Buffalo all over again. Luckily with a much lower death toll
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  #17  
Old July 7th, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Pilots who can't fly a visual approach shouldn't be pilots. No scapegoat (ILS was out, no PAPI/VASI, landed at the wrong airport, can't fly an uncoupled approach) needed.
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  #18  
Old July 7th, 2013, 10:25 PM
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Our current airline system is so beyond broken its nuts. When I as an FO had more time then 50% captains and even worse most of those guys had zero business being in the cockpit never mind being in the left seat. Between that and the sub par 3rd world mx they are doing. leaving the airlines was probably one best things that I ever did. I'd rather go back to Iraq then work for another airline.

------ Follow up post added July 7th, 2013 10:26 PM ------

I agree. FMS's and Auto pilots make pilots go full retard.

------ Follow up post added July 7th, 2013 10:26 PM ------

Never go full retard
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  #19  
Old July 8th, 2013, 01:46 AM
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As a current 737 Captain it does appear to be pilot error after the watching the NTSB initial statements on the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder.

As we say, they "got behind the aircraft" meaning too low and too slow. The early report is someone called low speed 7 seconds before impact. The question now is, would they have had a successful go around if they had pushed to max power at that time?

Sad. "But for the Grace of God go I".

Mike
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Old July 8th, 2013, 03:32 AM
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The Pilots in the jet waiting on the adjacent taxiway report will be very interesting to read.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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