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  #41  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
That' part of why the Q plate exists but not all. Its also for kit cars and rebuilt cars (aka rebuilt LRs). The key point is the Vehicle ID. Its only permanently applied to the frame. Change the frame = lose the permanent ID. THat sprobably what the US is mostly concerned about.
Unless you take the import body and put it on an NAS frame, right?
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  #42  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:01 PM
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That's fine. I was just living over there and have no idea what I'm talking about either.
and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once...
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  #43  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post

LOL ... Lets ignore laws that you speculate may have been broken for a cheap stab at the government.

For all you know this could be a major crime bust for transporting illegals across the border and shipping them to Detroit to be murdered in a drug lords fantasy duck hunt.
You don't want my mean old self to poke jabs, rightfully and lawfully so, at my government but you have no problem doing so to a complete stranger? Thats rich.

Other than that, you are right, pure speculation. But with the type of agencies involved and the recent reports of delayed entry at the ports, I'm assuming it has to do with compliance and/or illegals in 130s with Puma bodies transporting the funk and Asians across the border as you claim.

Guess my weakness is standing up for fellow forum members who have shown themselves to be upstanding citizens. My bad if I try to think the best of people and the worst of my government. That is ironic, but again, only if you knew me. Have a good one.
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  #44  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
That' part of why the Q plate exists but not all. Its also for kit cars and rebuilt cars (aka rebuilt LRs). The key point is the Vehicle ID. Its only permanently applied to the frame. Change the frame = lose the permanent ID. THat sprobably what the US is mostly concerned about.
I would guess they are more concerned with taxes and import duty fees.

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2013 10:03 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once...
You're also short :D
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  #45  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post

I would guess they are more concerned with taxes and import duty fees.
Who is so cheap as to not pay those especially on an eBay buy?
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  #46  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Who is so cheap as to not pay those especially on an eBay buy?
Man I don't know. It's the government. Why would they care if there wasn't money involved? Aren't the import fees based of the value of the vehicle?
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  #47  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
Unless you take the import body and put it on an NAS frame, right?
In your example the the NAS frame would hold the ID and the body is just 'window dressing'... The import body is just parts. Now if you tried to use the ID from the body then you would be in trouble.

Edit - Unless somebody actualy works out the US interpretation of the Theseus rules and then you 'might' be in trouble.

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2013 08:08 PM ------

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You're also short :D
He's got you there...
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  #48  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:08 PM
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But under the points system, it would require a Q plate if it had the rest of the UK stuff on it -- engine trans axles etc.
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  #49  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:10 PM
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I presume since he's talking about a NAS frame its over here already in which case the UK points system doesnt apply but the US Theseus system might (if anybody can ever work it out).
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  #50  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
I donít know the guy in the news story and have no idea if he's done anything good or bad but one of the comments on one of the news stories states "Aaron retitled two of my 2011 Puma trucks as '84s. He's a good guy that hasn't done anything illegal as far as I'm concerned.". So putting fake identities on trucks (if he did so of course) is not illegal and he's a good guy for doing it?

Edit - just a casual glance at one of the pics in the posted news reports shows a galv chassis (or at least rear crossmember) under a ROW truck. If it came in that way then its illegal.[/FONT][/COLOR]
It's obvious - and I'd think should be to just about anyone - that the comment left was done by some spiteful (or just plain) douchebag that was getting a jab in. Zero truth, but just takes one a-hole to make an asinine comment and suddenly it's the truth because it's on the Internet.

Second, my brother went to college at UNC Wilmington and I had occasion to roll the drive down to visit my brother into a stop over at Aaron's on more than one occasion as well. The trucks I saw were original vehicles, and his shop guys put a lot of elbow grease into them. Trust me - and I mean this as a compliment given the situation - his trucks were as shitty, filthy, 90w coated rigs as the rest if ours.
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  #51  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:20 PM
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The problems as I see it are two fold: first, federal regs are very vague and second, state law varies from state to state.
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  #52  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:21 PM
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Situation really sucks...hopefully it's not "Pandora's Box"...
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  #53  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:23 PM
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Although I am sad that it happened to someone on this board, hopefully some details will come out that will shed light on what caused the CBP/DHS to seize the vehicles. This will be more concrete and hopefully we will get a clearer picture of where the bar is set.
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  #54  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:24 PM
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Like I said, I don’t know the guy and I specifically used enough other comments to make it clear he's innocent until proven guilty and or there are other possibilities to say he’s done nothing wrong.

As to whether the comment was in jest or not, I have no idea. I just used it as an example of how asinine this can get. I have seen similar stupid statements made all the time in all seriousness by people on this subject. It’s like their wearing blinkers or something and can only see what they want to see despite the rules being SO clear and easy to understand.

Edit - I dont see the rules as vague at all Ron. 25yrs old or older and in its original spec. Period.
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  #55  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Like I said, I don’t know the guy and I specifically used enough other comments to make it clear he's innocent until proven guilty and or there are other possibilities to say he’s done nothing wrong.

As to whether the comment was in jest or not, I have no idea. I just used it as an example of how asinine this can get. I have seen similar stupid statements made all the time in all seriousness by people on this subject. It’s like their wearing blinkers or something and can only see what they want to see despite the rules being SO clear and easy to understand.
What is clear about federal import regs? Can you point me to what in the federal regs draws the line as to when a rebuild it too extensive?

I see your edit. Original spec means what? The replacement chassis is the same as the original. How about a replacement rear cross member? If it is taken apart and painted, is it no longer original spec? New seats? New dash? New doors? Where is the clarity in the regs?
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  #56  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:30 PM
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When it changes the vehicle from its original spec. Did it leave the factory with rear disc brakes? A TDi? A PUMA Body? Is it still carrying its original factory applied ID Stamp on the frame that matches the paperwork and is not suspect?
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  #57  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Feds seem to be checking for the VIN stamp on the front frame horn.
Ron, funny because I had an exchange on FB with Mike @ ECR about this exact issue. He said they've never had an issue with galvi frames not having VINs....think that's going to change? Do you think ECR has immunity in this legal fight?
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  #58  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]

Edit - I dont see the rules as vague at all Ron. 25yrs old or older and in its original spec. Period.
I own several cars (many non-Rover) that are not only older than 25 years, but older than I am. This includes my '71 Series which - due to shitty British engineering - has had a plethora of items replaced. In fact, I've got a galvy chassis waiting to be installed on it as we speak. These things rust. These things break. New parts are required to keep them running. Then chalk up the fact that Rovers in particular are working vehicles (coupled with aforementioned fine British parts) and find me some trucks that are 25+ years and don't need some parts and paint in those 25 years.

I'm also planning to do the Timm Cooper disc brake conversion as well, so between that and the galvy chassis they better come slap the cuffs on me and anyone else that owns a Series or old Rover and actually wants to keep it on the road and from breaking in two.
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  #59  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:33 PM
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So a disc brake conversion is not original spec? Do you have to have the original shoes and drums? How about putting seat belts on the third row seats? What if the engine blows and is replaced with the same type? Does it have to be a used motor from the same year or can you buy a new one from the dealer or a used one from a newer vehicle? How about the doors rusting out? Can you replace those? Do you have to use two piece or are one piece ok?

The line is not clear to me.
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  #60  
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
What is clear about federal import regs? Can you point me to what in the federal regs draws the line as to when a rebuild it too extensive?

I see your edit. Original spec means what? The replacement chassis is the same as the original.
Can you please put the grey spray paint away...we get it, you can argue this 'till the cows come home. Deny the fact that some of these "restorations" are nothing more than vin swaps and that's a good starting point. Is that what happened in this case, who knows, but ICE/CBP seized the trucks and if if it was me, I wouldn't be going down with out a fight or be the last rat standing on the rail...
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