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  #21  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:26 PM
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And who was it that was speculating that this flood of 25 year imports was going to cause the value of NAS Defenders to drop? Hmmm...

This is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I went NAS.

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2013 10:28 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn_Guinto View Post
Wow! Almost bought a black 110 from him late last year prior to buying my 25 year old legally imported 110. That's too bad for him, I've had on and off conversations with him over the years and he does seem like an ok guy.

In browsing through his inventory, it appears that most all of his stock are true 25 year old ROW trucks that are refurbished by him and offered for sale. If this is indeed the case, does that mean that it is illegal to restore the truck to current specs after you get it stateside?

This will be very interesting!
This could literally be that there was a report to the authorities of an illegal one, or a case where he did do one illegally, and they are seizing them all to inspect each one for legal compliance. A pure 25 year old shouldn't be a problem I would think if it was imported legally through customs and all fees paid.
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  #22  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
It just amazes me that people choose to overlook, bend or break the rules when it suits them then complain when they get caught or complain that others who broke the rules are making it more difficult now that they want to do so themselves???

I donít know the guy in the news story and have no idea if he's done anything good or bad but one of the comments on one of the news stories states "Aaron retitled two of my 2011 Puma trucks as '84s. He's a good guy that hasn't done anything illegal as far as I'm concerned.". So putting fake identities on trucks (if he did so of course) is not illegal and he's a good guy for doing it?

Now I am sure there will be a whole bunch of gnashing of teeth and moaning that itís becoming more and more difficult to import legal trucks due to the amount of scrutiny needed to ensure they ARE legal.

This has been coming for a while and nobody should be surprised itís happening.

Edit - just a casual glance at one of the pics in the posted news reports shows a galv chassis (or at least rear crossmember) under a ROW truck. If it came in that way then its illegal.
Link to the story about the puma's...

It was just a matter of time...
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  #23  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:29 PM
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This whole "galvanized chassis" and it is illegal is bullshit.

Nothing in the regs I have seen makes that distinction and I know that is what position the .gov is taking but I don't see the basis for that position in the regs.

Someone should send a letter requesting an opinion from DOT and see what response you get.
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  #24  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:31 PM
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No link, just read the comments section below either of the 2 linked reports above. Roverguru I think is the guys name.
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  #25  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
And who was it that was speculating that this flood of 25 year imports was going to cause the value of NAS Defenders to drop? Hmmm...

This is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I went NAS.

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2013 10:28 PM ------



This could literally be that there was a report to the authorities of an illegal one, or a case where he did do one illegally, and they are seizing them all to inspect each one for legal compliance. A pure 25 year old shouldn't be a problem I would think if it was imported legally through customs and all fees paid.
If it's a criminal investigation all bets are off on what will happen with the trucks...
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  #26  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:33 PM
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This is BS like the talk about Europe and Australia doing away with bullbars because of the danger to pedestrians. We're just getting too soft and focused on the little things.
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  #27  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:34 PM
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I bought a 110 a year ago from him, and was not aware of the import laws. He has a used car lot that he runs sales threw and seemed to be legit. I hope my vehicle could not get wrapped up in this. I have a title in hand. Thoughts?
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  #28  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
This whole "galvanized chassis" and it is illegal is bullshit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post

Nothing in the regs I have seen makes that distinction and I know that is what position the .gov is taking but I don't see the basis for that position in the regs.

Someone should send a letter requesting an opinion from DOT and see what response you get.


True I should have said 'replacement galvy chassis' and that IS illegal. Itís illegal because the act of replacing the chassis in the UK in most cases renders the vehicles original identity void. When that happens it loses its age related status for import here. Importation here is based on 'documented' age in the originating country. When you replace the chassis in the UK you lose the ONLY 'permanent', factory applied copy of the VIN #. Without that number the vehicles original identity is in question and generally gets replaced by a non-age related Q plate. Since this takes place in the UK it means the identity is gone BEFORE its imported therefore itís no longer eligible for import under the 25 yrs rule.

Replacing it here is a different story of course as it then falls under US rules and I donít know that we have yet tested the loss of provable identity issue here in the US have we?
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  #29  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:39 PM
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I think if you have a VIN on the frame that matches your title, and using the land rover vin decoder (google it) you can determine it is in fact 25 years old, and your 110 wasn't rebuilt with a very obviously late model powerplant like a TD5 or Puma, then your probably safe.
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  #30  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:39 PM
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I would be prepared for a knock on the door, but I would not show them the truck without a warrant or subpoena. Now if it has the original frame/VINs/engine, you have nothing to worry about.

*not legal advice, consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction*
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  #31  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post

True I should have said 'replacement galvy chassis' and that IS illegal. Itís illegal because the act of replacing the chassis in the UK in most cases renders the vehicles original identity void. When that happens it loses its age related status for import here. Importation here is based on 'documented' age in the originating country. When you replace the chassis in the UK you lose the ONLY 'permanent', factory applied copy of the VIN #. Without that number the vehicles original identity is in question and generally gets replaced by a non-age related Q plate. Since this takes place in the UK it means the identity is gone BEFORE its imported therefore itís no longer eligible for import under the 25 yrs rule.

Replacing it here is a different story of course as it then falls under US rules and I donít know that we have yet tested the loss of provable identity issue here in the US have we?
This thread will be full of things like this. You are wrong. Replacing a chassis in the UK does not mean the vehicle will receive a Q plate.
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  #32  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:43 PM
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ipGregory,

You are wrong because under the UK points system it IS legal to put a new galvanized chassis and you do NOT need to go to a Q plate if you have enough other points. The what's legal thread has the full points system detail.

The position the .gov is taking is unclear to me as to whether they consider it VIN tampering (which seems wrong because the galvanized chassis swap was not with any attempt to defraud) or because they consider it such a rebuild as to be a new construction and subject to new vehicle Regs. Anyone who knows is welcome to pm or call me.
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  #33  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:44 PM
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What if the frame is galvanized but painted black afterwards? Would the feds know?

I'm semi serious... LOL
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  #34  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:45 PM
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You missed the 'in most cases' part maybe? It comes down to documentation of the original identity and if you can retain that proof of identity after the change. Most just throw a new chassis under there and carry on. Most dont want to follow the rules because the Q plate drops the value of the vehicle.

Ron, I am British and I have been through this over there. Yes you can 'theoretically' replace just the frame under the points system and just about keep enough points to retain the ID. But in most cases when the frame is gone much of the rest is or needs replacement/refurbishment as well. Did they change the Steering box/pump, change the shocks, change the springs, upgrade or swap the axles, change parts of the engine, etc. as part of the same rebuild? How much if any of the body did they replace/change, etc.? It’s very difficult to replace a frame due to age and still keep enough points off the rest to retain the ID 'in most cases'. Most do so as I said because they don’t want the Q plate, not because they are not supposed to get it. If you change out part of a system you lose the points and with the frame you pretty much only need to lose another to lose the ID. It’s weighted that way deliberately.
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  #35  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:48 PM
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This thread will be full of things like this. You are wrong. Replacing a chassis in the UK does not mean the vehicle will receive a Q plate.
I'm gonna listen to guy who was born and grew up in the UK about the finer details about how a vehicle maintains it's identity...
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  #36  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
You missed the 'in most cases' part maybe? It comes down to documentation of the original identity and if you can retain that proof of identity after the change. Most just throw a new chassis under there and carry on. Most dont want to follow the rules because the Q plate drops the value of the vehicle.
No. I read the "generally" part. You are wrong. Correct that a Q plate drops the value but not on the rest. Q plates generally come from a mash-up of two vehicles like an older leaf body on a coil spring chassis that is from a newer vehicle where certain percentages of parts are no longer on the vehicle from either model year resulting in an inability to determine the actual age of the vehicle. A galvanized chassis swap in the UK will not result in a Q plate.

EDIT TO CLARIFY SO THIS PART OF THE DISCUSSION CAN END: The person who does the work to their vehicle should go have it checked out at a DVLA testing station in order for it to be inspected and signed off on it being road worthy same as people should do in the UK when they build a vehicle. It's not going to end up as a Q plate as a result of this.
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  #37  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:50 PM
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Feds seem to be checking for the VIN stamp on the front frame horn. I have "heard" all sorts of stuff. Galvanizing over the original is tampering (dumb because you can still see the stamp just fine) not having the leyland stamp means its fake (dumb because not all of them had it) crooked numbers means its fake (dumb, they were hand stamped by drunk union workers when new) but I still don't see what runs a foul of the regs by importing a truck with a replacement chassis. If that were the case, nearly every rebuilt race car would be illegal to import, a bunch of old morgans would be illegal to import etc.
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  #38  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:50 PM
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I'm gonna listen to guy who was born and grew up in the UK about the finer details about how a vehicle maintains it's identity...
That's fine. I was just living over there and have no idea what I'm talking about either.
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  #39  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:52 PM
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You don't have to listen to anyone, look it up yourself. I am not trying to start a fight, but I am always curious about rules and regulations and like to make sure things are clear.
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  #40  
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:56 PM
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No. I read the "generally" part. You are wrong. Correct that a Q plate drops the value but not on the rest. Q plates generally come from a mash-up of two vehicles like an older leaf body on a coil spring chassis that is from a newer vehicle where certain percentages of parts are no longer on the vehicle from either model year resulting in an inability to determine the actual age of the vehicle. A galvanized chassis swap in the UK will not result in a Q plate.
That' part of why the Q plate exists but not all. Its also for kit cars and rebuilt cars (aka rebuilt LRs). The key point is the Vehicle ID. Its only permanently applied to the frame. Change the frame = lose the permanent ID. THat sprobably what the US is mostly concerned about.
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