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  #341  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
People are expecting what they have been promised. Aaron had a history of not delivering on these promises or just lying.
Amen!!

I did go back and find in my files the old deleted thread we are discussing.
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  #342  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:00 AM
Naplm00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
How much did you pay for your truck? What year? Can you post some pics? Did you do any pre-purchase inspection at all?


Im not going to repost the entire deleted thread. Its not worth my time now since aaron got pinched. Does not seem like he will be doin this to any other members
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  #343  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:02 AM
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What a cry baby who buys an old clapped out 110 and expects it not to have rust
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  #344  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
ended up cutting it all out and replacing the footwells. On a truck that had little to no rust and only needed doors
In my opinion--and I'm sure that someone from the Horsey SOC will chime in here with a more thoroughly researched opinion--that's acceptable condition for a truck that costs less than $20K. A nice, mostly rust-free Defender is going to cost you in the high 20's, low 30's. A simple review of the For Sale section would have told you that.

How much did you pay?
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  #345  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:12 AM
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well off the subject of Dr Aaron, but I'm pretty disappointed that this is how people feel about car salesmen. Really? everyone assumes and expects your sales person to lie? I have been selling land Rovers for 15 years and I don't lie and I am held to a high standard with regard to how I describe cars etc. My clients come to me for advice and guidance in their decision making process.
If you lie to customers you won't have customers for long. This is not a reflection on Aaron but a comment on the turn this thread has taken.
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  #346  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:18 AM
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Holy wobbling whale balls batman!!!

Have none of you guys ever heard of Caveat Emptor? here.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
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  #347  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:19 AM
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There are many new people to Rovers and 15k-20k is a lot of money to most people. They should not expect to be lied to as Todd has stated.
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  #348  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
You are talking to someone who made a living for over a decade working on MGs and Triumphs. I know that something old, especially something old and British, is not going to be an easy thing. And, as I stated and you referenced above, I am not here to pile on Aaron at all. He was a nice enough guy and showed up (very late) to the little used car dealer used to front his business. I saw the 90, inspected it, was very, very disappointed by its condition (not at all what was told of me) for the price, and drove away. I was out one day of work and about $70 in gas.

The person should inspect and never buy sight unseen. Never. Even more so with something British. I bought my BJ60 based on owners description and photos sent to me. Flew from BWI down to New Orleans to get it and drive it back. Owner promised that he would pick me up at the airport and if I did not like it, HE would fund the return ticket. I showed up and it was better than promised. I gladly handed over my money and drove away. My first introduction to the truck was an 1100 mile trip. Point of this story? Good, full disclosure seller, a great truck (which was a Canadian import, by the way), and a buyer ready to walk away if need be. Like your "very expensive Italian toy," the new owner needs to be able to go and fully inspect and then walk away. There is at least one story where the owner inspected, drove away and on the way home, the truck caught fire. I believe that no recompense was offered. Just as you shared a story about a "very expensive Italian toy" (like price matters) and the efforts you went through to rectify the situation, these few people who have posted, are doing the same thing. Difference? You reached a suitable arrangement over your situation when your "toy" showed up and was not as described and these posters, well, seemingly have not. I find your statement about 'AS-IS' to be ironic. If you were a true believer in 'AS-IS,' your story would have been quite different. The dealer would not have taken it back and you would have been stuck with it. Does this sound a little like what is being recalled in this thread? Just a little? Again, the difference is you had a seller amenable to finding a suitable solution. It seems these posters have had no such experience. I am sure if they had, you would not hear much from them. A bit sanctimonious in your attitude if you ask me.

If the purchaser shows up, sees the truck and still leaves with it, thats their problem. I agree that they are dumb for doing so. I do not, however, believe that they should not be allowed to at least share their experience with a broader audience in the interests of education. I have not shared my non purchase story because there are (or at least, were) enough stories of bad experiences that I did not feel the need to. Stories, good and bad, enlighten future purchasers allowing them to make better informed decisions. Stories should not be omitted because they show bad things. Stories all serve a purpose, whether or not you agree with the poster or not. Just like the story about your "very expensive Italian toy."

Maybe you should try the decaf.

Yes price matters , as expectations are different.

The AS-IS / WHERE-IS was not applicable on my BILL OF SALE, so don't assume, remember what assume makes

You seem to make an issue about the description of the " Very Expensive Italian Toy ", not that I give a shit about what your opinion is, nor I will apologize for owning it, but the point to that statement IS and WAS, than even when you buy something with that price tag, lack of perfection could and will exist.

As for the other stories and remedies, there will always be 2 sides to a story, but I will maintain my disgust on trashing someone for it when he is in a situation like the current one.
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  #349  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
Goose nailed it. If you buy a truck without inspecting it in person and relying on the opinion of a salesman, that's on you. It's a risk you're taking, in hopes of getting a good deal. The bulk of the trucks being sold here now are 25+ year imports. These are 25 year-old trucks being imported from a country legendary for it's crap weather and poor customer service. Most of them are being bought for around $15-20K. What, exactly, are you expecting? It's going to be rough. It's going to be a money pit. All Defenders are. You know what kind of NAS truck you'll get for $15K, so why expect something better for an import?

These are not "investments" and old Defenders are not (yet) a poor man's game. You're going to have to spend cash and sweat if you want something nice. Don't go over your budget. If you're buying a mid-80s truck from the UK, you might as well budget $10K for a new galvy frame and bulkhead repairs. If it turns out that your frame is fine, you got lucky and your truck is the exception to the rule.

Coming here and trashing a vendor over a sight-unseen import truck purchase that you didn't do sufficient due diligence on just doesn't fly with most of the folks here.

What I was expecting was what was told to me over the phone by the salesman, when I asked him about specifc conditions of my truck.
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  #350  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Maybe you should try the decaf.

Yes price matters , as expectations are different.

The AS-IS / WHERE-IS was not applicable on my BILL OF SALE, so don't assume, remember what assume makes

You seem to make an issue about the description of the " Very Expensive Italian Toy ", not that I give a shit about what your opinion is, nor I will apologize for owning it, but the point to that statement IS and WAS, than even when you buy something with that price tag, lack of perfection could and will exist.

As for the other stories and remedies, there will always be 2 sides to a story, but I will maintain my disgust on trashing someone for it when he is in a situation like the current one.
No shits given about your purchase on my end. My point was just to demonstrate the irony of your reminding people of AS-IS purchases and then describing how you proceeded to go down to the dealer and demand recompense. You were lucky enough to have a dealer who wanted to make amends. Your dealer could just as easily blamed any imperfections on the transport leaving you to deal with them, instead of directly with the dealership. To say AS-IS is nice but to a certain extend one would assume that saving face would be in order.

This is one thing that I have always found odd when comparing it to say, the Land Cruiser community. If you misrepresent yourself, there will be a thread about it on Mud and your reputation will be tarnished. This is why I had no problem flying down to New Orleans to buy, and then promptly drive 1100 miles back home, an unknown quantity of a Land Cruiser. We, being the seller and myself, even had a discussion about it. His primary concern was that I was satisfied with everything. The truck, the experience, everything. He even called three times to make sure that everything was going well. Why? One, he was a nice guy but the other because the community is so tight knit, bad experiences would get around. For the money I would have spent on that D90, literally the same money, I bought the Cruiser.

As for bad form discussing bad deals made by the dealer while that dealer is being investigated, I believe it is just showing evidence. Hell, the 90 he tried to sell as an all original 84 had an OBD port. Im sure Lucas perfected the art of on board diagnostics LONG before anyone else even thought about anti lock brakes...
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  #351  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
No shits given about your purchase on my end. My point was just to demonstrate the irony of your reminding people of AS-IS purchases and then describing how you proceeded to go down to the dealer and demand recompense. You were lucky enough to have a dealer who wanted to make amends. Your dealer could just as easily blamed any imperfections on the transport leaving you to deal with them, instead of directly with the dealership. To say AS-IS is nice but to a certain extend one would assume that saving face would be in order.

This is one thing that I have always found odd when comparing it to say, the Land Cruiser community. If you misrepresent yourself, there will be a thread about it on Mud and your reputation will be tarnished. This is why I had no problem flying down to New Orleans to buy, and then promptly drive 1100 miles back home, an unknown quantity of a Land Cruiser. We, being the seller and myself, even had a discussion about it. His primary concern was that I was satisfied with everything. The truck, the experience, everything. He even called three times to make sure that everything was going well. Why? One, he was a nice guy but the other because the community is so tight knit, bad experiences would get around. For the money I would have spent on that D90, literally the same money, I bought the Cruiser.

As for bad form discussing bad deals made by the dealer while that dealer is being investigated, I believe it is just showing evidence. Hell, the 90 he tried to sell as an all original 84 had an OBD port. Im sure Lucas perfected the art of on board diagnostics LONG before anyone else even thought about anti lock brakes...

Statements without reading the whole thing, people gets in trouble for that very thing, assumptions without recourse.

RE-READ my post, I have clearly stated the As-IS / WHERE-IS was not applicable on my Bill of Sale
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  #352  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Statements without reading the whole thing, people gets in trouble for that very thing, assumptions without recourse.

RE-READ my post, I have clearly stated the As-IS / WHERE-IS was not applicable on my Bill of Sale
Read mine and youll notice that I am not talking about your purchase anymore. More about saving face within the community and going beyond the 'AS-IS' coverage.

Also, read the last paragraph of my statement. Its very pertinent to the topic as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post

As for bad form discussing bad deals made by the dealer while that dealer is being investigated, I believe it is just showing evidence. Hell, the 90 he tried to sell as an all original 84 had an OBD port. Im sure Lucas perfected the art of on board diagnostics LONG before anyone else even thought about anti lock brakes...
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  #353  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usadventureracing View Post
What I was expecting was what was told to me over the phone by the salesman, when I asked him about specifc conditions of my truck.
I genuinely feel bad for you. Nobody wants to feel ripped off, I understand that. This is a good lesson for new guys in Defender valuation and condition and also in the importance of pre-purchase inspection. You're in the Chicago area; it would have cost less than $300 for a r/t plane ticket and rental car to go look at the vehicle. So much less expensive than a new bulkhead and you would have learned a lot about old Defenders in the process.
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  #354  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
I genuinely feel bad for you. Nobody wants to feel ripped off, I understand that. This is a good lesson for new guys in Defender valuation and condition and also in the importance of pre-purchase inspection. You're in the Chicago area; it would have cost less than $300 for a r/t plane ticket and rental car to go look at the vehicle. So much less expensive than a new bulkhead and you would have learned a lot about old Defenders in the process.

Agreed - lesson learned by me and will never happen again.
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  #355  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 12:34 PM
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uh....yeah...
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  #356  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 01:05 PM
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Neill Thornton
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My opinion:

This part of the thread is pretty much replicating what happened on the previous thread that got deleted. What started as a pretty factual account of a particular sale devolved into name calling and general stupidity.

So while people are saying they want to keep threads around "to warn other people" and what not... it looks like we have 360 posts of chaff for 5 posts of actual stuff. Not really a way to do it. All it does is bring people to the site due to a google search, and then go "WTF is wrong with this place" and leave.
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  #357  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 01:14 PM
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Agreed
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  #358  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
Agreed
agreed x2
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  #359  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 01:40 PM
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He's a Chirpractor.
They "manipulate" their Clients.
Think that says everything we need to know.
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  #360  
Old April 2nd, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
He's a Chirpractor.
They "manipulate" their Clients.
Think that says everything we need to know.
Ha!!
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