Rover bust in NC??? - Page 11 - Defender Source
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  #201  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:36 AM
Naplm00
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I also don't see these guys going after everyone who sells and installs Chevy crate motors or build up from blocks..


I think they were there for the vin issues not the engines
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  #202  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
I looked at a certain vendors website about a week or so ago and all of their 84/85 Defenders with TDI's and galvanized Frames ect. We're gone. Did they get busted too or an early heads up?


That's like saying "I visited a certain grocery store last week"... no reason to be so vauge at this point, anyone being looked at is already on the radar and anyone not being looked at can consider this their "early heads up".





I just want to come in here and post that regardless of all the speculation (really some of you should be ashamed) we need not to forget that Aaron is one of us. In a week's time he now has the 2nd most famous Land Rover shop/import business on the East Coast. In another week, while awareness of his business is still spreading, the other famous shop will only be mentioned in sentences with words like "snitch" and "rat".
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  #203  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:47 AM
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Adam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
I just want to come in here and post that regardless of all the speculation (really some of you should be ashamed)...

...the other famous shop will only be mentioned in sentences with words like "snitch" and "rat".
Interesting contradiction.
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  #204  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
What age of vehicle does that literature apply to?
It has nothing to do with the age of the vehicle...it's the age of the motor, and the only one's that are exempt are 200tdi's

A TD5 will not be exempt until 2019, early 300tdi's until 2015
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  #205  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post

It has nothing to do with the age of the vehicle...it's the age of the motor, and the only one's that are exempt are 200tdi's

A TD5 will not be exempt until 2019, early 300tdi's until 2015
A long time ago you could buy a brand new 300tdi for your nas truck as a conversion kit from rn. From what I heard the EPA stepped in and requested them to stop selling them. They never said they needed to refund all customers for the purchase and take back the engines.
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  #206  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:01 PM
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And RN was pretty careful to say to only install on pre OBDII only.
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  #207  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Theoretically,

If one of your competitors was breaking the law to compete in your industry, wouldn't you make a phone call?

I would.

ECR got in a lot of trouble from the DOT about 10 years ago for performing diesel swaps. They are very aware of what is legal and what is not. They have invested a large amount of money into determining what legal boundaries there are in operating their business, and they adhere to them.

What is wrong about that?

Not saying that they did or didnt drop a dime... it could have been anyone (or no one). Regardless of who did or didnt, if the law was being broken and it was reported... I dont see how ANYONE could have a problem with that. If you have a problem with what the law IS, then I understand. But that has nothing to do with any vendor or individual.

I might make a call, or more likely a visit, to the competitor himself. But rat them out to the authorities??? ... seriously what the fuck! I would be more upset that someone on this board would come along and make a spineless comment like this but its painfully obvious that you don't have a clue what is going on here.
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  #208  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:06 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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From the document "Procedures for importing vehicles and engines into the United States" by the EPA. According to this document these engines should become exempt once they reach 21 OP Years and came originally installed in that vehicle. As previously said the 300tdi engine would become exempt in 2015 and so on. Exempt meaning that they are now legal to import (under the conditions stated) and own.

"There are three types of exemptions for non-U.S. version vehicles by an individual. Below is a description of each type of exemption along with the requirements you will need when importing your vehicle and the restrictions that will apply to your vehicle.

(a) Exemption for Non-U.S. Version Vehicles 21 Years Old or Older
The vehicle is 21 OP years old or older and in original unmodified configuration.

Requirements:
● Importer must file with Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 declaring code "E."
● Customs may require proof of vehicle age.
● "OP Years" are determined by subtracting the year a vehicle was manufactured from the
year it was imported. Restrictions:
● The vehicle must be in its original unmodified configuration.
● Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption
unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines and emission control systems."


Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
It has nothing to do with the age of the vehicle...it's the age of the motor, and the only one's that are exempt are 200tdi's

A TD5 will not be exempt until 2019, early 300tdi's until 2015
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  #209  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:11 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
And RN was pretty careful to say to only install on pre OBDII only.

But how does that make it legal? Seriously, those engines are not type-accepted and it written very clearly that the EPA considers it illegal to install one in anything, regardless of age. Your the lawyer guy, explain how you'd defend something like this when it's clearly stated in black and white?
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  #210  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
But how does that make it legal? Seriously, those engines are not type-accepted and it written very clearly that the EPA considers it illegal to install one in anything, regardless of age. Your the lawyer guy, explain how you'd defend something like this when it's clearly stated in black and white?
Laws are not perftect and do not apply perfectly to every situation.
THAT is why we have lawyers in the first place.
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  #211  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
From the document "Procedures for importing vehicles and engines into the United States" by the EPA. According to this document these engines should become exempt once they reach 21 OP Years and came originally installed in that vehicle. As previously said the 300tdi engine would become exempt in 2015 and so on. Exempt meaning that they are now legal to import (under the conditions stated) and own.

"There are three types of exemptions for non-U.S. version vehicles by an individual. Below is a description of each type of exemption along with the requirements you will need when importing your vehicle and the restrictions that will apply to your vehicle.

(a) Exemption for Non-U.S. Version Vehicles 21 Years Old or Older
The vehicle is 21 OP years old or older and in original unmodified configuration.

Requirements:
● Importer must file with Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 declaring code "E."
● Customs may require proof of vehicle age.
● "OP Years" are determined by subtracting the year a vehicle was manufactured from the
year it was imported. Restrictions:
● The vehicle must be in its original unmodified configuration.
● Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption
unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines and emission control systems."
Thats in 2 years and that's just the first run of trucks with them "originally" installed at the factory. So that 1986 90 you've imported with a 300TDI or that 1995 90 NAS that you've swapped a 300TDI into is basically illegal. Doesn't Fededral Law trump State Law?

Correct me please if I'm wrong...
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  #212  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I haven't imported or swapped anything. Just trying to get some clarity here. With all the discussions back and forth on these topics I'm surprised we haven't gotten more clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Thats in 2 years and that's just the first run of trucks with them "originally" installed at the factory. So that 1986 90 you've imported with a 300TDI or that 1995 90 NAS that you've swapped a 300TDI into is basically illegal. Doesn't Fededral Law trump State Law?

Correct me please if I'm wrong...
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  #213  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:29 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
I haven't imported or swapped anything. Just trying to get some clarity here. With all the discussions back and forth on these topics I'm surprised we haven't gotten more clarity.
I don't think they'll ever be "clarity"
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  #214  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Apparently not on this board anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
I don't think they'll ever be "clarity"
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  #215  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:49 PM
PTSchram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Do you think Homeland/ICE/CPB/EPA really gives a shit about onesies and twosies running 200/300TDis (at least the ones already here)? I doubt it's worth the resources to track them and prosecute.
Trust me, both LRNA (W/R/T trademarks) and CBP/DOT/EPA are very interested in the little guys doing onesie-twosies. I have the bonded warehouse "cage" fee to prove it. All for a lousy RV8 4.6 imported from UK. The same engine in all of those trucks from '87 to '04.

I still have problems quite often importing bearings, lighting components and anything to do with the security systems.
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  #216  
Old March 28th, 2013, 12:55 PM
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Eric Lindstrom
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post

what vendor? It's not slander if it's just a factual observation. Who had that many on hand and available for sale at one time?
Red Mountain Rovers
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  #217  
Old March 28th, 2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
Trust me, both LRNA (W/R/T trademarks) and CBP/DOT/EPA are very interested in the little guys doing onesie-twosies. I have the bonded warehouse "cage" fee to prove it. All for a lousy RV8 4.6 imported from UK. The same engine in all of those trucks from '87 to '04.

I still have problems quite often importing bearings, lighting components and anything to do with the security systems.
I was sorta meaning that once these items/vehicles are imported, but I see your point.
LRNA puts pressure on DOT/EPA because its a trade interest issue. I bet this is more for parts than 25 year old Defenders. DOT/CBP sees parts as "parts" and there's nothing illegal about them. Regardless, the entire situation just became a whole lot more difficult (importing anyway).

If 25-year old Defenders were being imported and some had non-compliant engines and it wasn't so in-your-face obvious and increasing volume of imports as it has been over the past year or so, maybe nothing would have really happened - that's what I was suggesting. It was just too much of a good thing.
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  #218  
Old March 28th, 2013, 01:37 PM
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Adam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
I might make a call, or more likely a visit, to the competitor himself. But rat them out to the authorities??? ... seriously what the fuck! I would be more upset that someone on this board would come along and make a spineless comment like this but its painfully obvious that you don't have a clue what is going on here.
My comment is one of the most sensible and intelligent things so far posted in this thread.

No one has a clue what is going on here. Not even you.
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  #219  
Old March 28th, 2013, 02:01 PM
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Jarrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
I also don't see these guys going after everyone who sells and installs Chevy crate motors or build up from blocks..


I think they were there for the vin issues not the engines
Not the same. Motor swaps are EPA legal as long as it is a DOT approved motor and it is same year or newer as the chassis you are putting the motor in. Diesel swaps are legal as long as it is an approved motor. The 200, 300, etc... were never federalized and therefore are not legal for a swap. You could take your D90 or 110, drop in a Chevy LSx motor and be completely legal, as long as the new motor has all of the smog equipment that your chassis would have had. So, cats, etc...
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  #220  
Old March 28th, 2013, 02:19 PM
PTSchram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
I was sorta meaning that once these items/vehicles are imported, but I see your point.
LRNA puts pressure on DOT/EPA because its a trade interest issue. I bet this is more for parts than 25 year old Defenders. DOT/CBP sees parts as "parts" and there's nothing illegal about them. Regardless, the entire situation just became a whole lot more difficult (importing anyway).

If 25-year old Defenders were being imported and some had non-compliant engines and it wasn't so in-your-face obvious and increasing volume of imports as it has been over the past year or so, maybe nothing would have really happened - that's what I was suggesting. It was just too much of a good thing.
When importing bearings, I have to certify that I'm not part of dumping, receiving kickbacks and am willing to pay any duties that are due. I also have to provide dimensions of bearings as well as the duties are different for sizes and style.

It's really pretty silly the hurdles that are placed in front of businesses in America.

When that engine was seized I was astounded that a new Rover V8 drew so much attention.
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