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  #181  
Old March 27th, 2013, 11:09 PM
madcowdungbeetle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
I seems to me that the majority of imported defenders are legit so a bit different than the skyline crowd.
I would agree, but it will be interesting to see just what happens and how far they are willing to take the definition of "original," and some of the 25+ year old trucks that have come in with newer TDI/TD5 motors or later model/restored bodies.

To clarify I'm only referring to trucks that came into the country with the motor/body/frame swap having already been done overseas, and it was in some way documented to where it could be traced back to having not come over as an original truck.

I'd believe anyone who brings in a legit original 25+ year old truck, then modify's once it's in the US here has absolutely nothing to worry about.
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  #182  
Old March 27th, 2013, 11:09 PM
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Carter is a conspiracy theorist.

------ Follow up post added March 27th, 2013 11:13 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
..you cant tell me he's not concerned...
you missed it Bill. Read Jackie and Josh's posts
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  #183  
Old March 27th, 2013, 11:21 PM
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[QUOTE=Uncle Douglas;425354]Carter is a conspiracy theorist.

------ Follow up post added March 27th, 2013 11:13 PM ------



C'mon now Uncle Douglas, that's a little harsh. I'm just curious to see how far things will go with this.
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  #184  
Old March 28th, 2013, 01:58 AM
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Wondering whether all those 25 year old but updated to 2012 puma type vehicles are going to be picked up.
Personally I think they are all at risk.
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  #185  
Old March 28th, 2013, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
PT are you importing as a business ie a commercial entry? On personal entries such as personal vehicles or parts there is no bond.
Parts importer/exporter for retail sales.
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  #186  
Old March 28th, 2013, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I don't know. Maine is very lax so I doubt he has state law issues. Some states make you restamp the VIN. Some states make you have a VIN. It gets interesting because you can do some things in one state that would not be kosher in another (some states stamping a VIN is a crime, some it is not, some require paperwork to do it etc. but the laws that I have read all seem to account in one way or another for replacement of VIN stamped parts for purposes of repair and at least some exempt owners who just want to remove a VIN on their own car). There seems to be some room for legal arbitrage -- ie take the truck to a state where you can do what you want (stamp a replacement VIN, remove a VIN from a donor vehicle etc.) and then take it back to your home state. I don't see a situation where such drastic action is necessary, but it is possible.
I'm not sure what ECR does but when I replace frames I cut the section of the frame with the old VIN# on it out of the old frame and weld it to the new frame in the same location. I take photos of it all with me in them.
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  #187  
Old March 28th, 2013, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
LOL.

The same guy who did't get. Letter from LRNA about the name of his shop???

My only question, and this isn't meant to be critical of anyone, is, who holds the import bond for those trucks?

Somewhere there is an insurance company that's gonna have to pay out over the vehicles that were seized. Ultimately, they will subrogate, but for now, that insurance company is on the hook.

W/R/T chassis swaps, I am more than a little surprised that Julian said such actions were suspect given the common practice of doing so for rust issues, crash damage, etc. how hard is it to have a document notarized (or the UK equivalent) and have it recorded at the county recorder's office with an affidavit kinda like instrument cluster swaps?

Then again, my experience has been that the shipper won't accept a vehicle without a document of permanent export and the surrendered V-5

I was just posting what I was told by the NHTSA last year, it changed how I do business. And yes if I have a car with a rusted out frame here in the UK that is for my domestic market I would fit a Galvanised frame. That said, I wouldn't export it to the USA. And I tell prospective clients that too.

UK DVLA no longer issues Document of Permanent export unluss you make a special request for one.
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  #188  
Old March 28th, 2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11 View Post
I'm not sure what ECR does but when I replace frames I cut the section of the frame with the old VIN# on it out of the old frame and weld it to the new frame in the same location. I take photos of it all with me in them.

Be careful Matt, while this seems to be logical, we have been told by our DMV that all removal and reinstallation of VIN must be done by a DMV inspector. As Ron points out earlier in the thread, these regulations all vary state to state. But a picture of you doing an illegal act with the best of intentions is still illegal, again per NCDMV.
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  #189  
Old March 28th, 2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
So he imported it? Lawyer up, and get the facts straight from the DHS/CBP. They can dig to see if the paperwork is correct and if it came in with a 300tdi, that could be a issue....
I went down there a couple of years ago to look at a 90. Passed because it struck me as something that was not an '85.' There were too many things that didnt add up to being something that would match all the VINs on the truck (the black soot blowing poorly tuned motor, busted and leaking brake pipe, leaking injectors, aside).

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
seen is some people putting in 4BTs.
Dont say that too loudly either. A medium duty diesel swap into a light duty chassis is also illegal... Feds could have a field day with every person posting on a site like 4btswaps.


Interested to see how this turns out. His, if it was him, site is still up and advertising.
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  #190  
Old March 28th, 2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11 View Post

I'm not sure what ECR does but when I replace frames I cut the section of the frame with the old VIN# on it out of the old frame and weld it to the new frame in the same location. I take photos of it all with me in them.
That doesn't matter, what pictures you have or cutting and welding you do, at least in North Carolina. I just finished a frame off swap, on My 64 CJ6a documented everything even kept the old frame. When it came to the DMV giving me a title for it they would only give me a kit title which devalued the vehicle to where I had to part it out to make my money back. It was one of 456 ever made and a little different then what we are talking about, bc I was trying to title the vehicle. Changing a frame with a title really is not an issue, it is trying to get one after the fact. (State of Georgia does not issue titles just BOS, so you have to jump through hoops to get a title) anyways that was my experience. The Investigator was super cool and wanted to help me out, he said pictures and proof don't matter, it what is currently on the vehicle, and bc the original vin had been welded on that makes it tampered with. Ughhh it was an ordeal that took 12 weeks to finally get a title, kit title at that.

I just saw Dales post, said basically the same thing!
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  #191  
Old March 28th, 2013, 09:40 AM
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W/R/T VIN plates, etc. In most cases, it is unlawful to possess a VIN plate without it being "permanently" attached to the vehicle.

Indiana has a clause in the motor vehicle regs that allow removal of VIN plates for purposes of repair, etc. The only stipulation is that the VIN tag has to be replaced on the same vehicle it came from.

In my case, I retain VIN tags with frames of future builds that will retain the original VIN of the frame. The status of the title is pretty much determined when one applies for a title for the vehicle constructed using a donor frame and its VIN.
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  #192  
Old March 28th, 2013, 10:21 AM
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I looked at a certain vendors website about a week or so ago and all of their 84/85 Defenders with TDI's and galvanized Frames ect. We're gone. Did they get busted too or an early heads up?
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  #193  
Old March 28th, 2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
I looked at a certain vendors website about a week or so ago and all of their 84/85 Defenders with TDI's and galvanized Frames ect. We're gone. Did they get busted too or an early heads up?
what vendor? It's not slander if it's just a factual observation. Who had that many on hand and available for sale at one time?
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  #194  
Old March 28th, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
what vendor? It's not slander if it's just a factual observation. Who had that many on hand and available for sale at one time?
Probably 'Berkshite' oops typo!
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  #195  
Old March 28th, 2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
Dont say that too loudly either. A medium duty diesel swap into a light duty chassis is also illegal... Feds could have a field day with every person posting on a site like 4btswaps.

Interested to see how this turns out. His, if it was him, site is still up and advertising.
Jeeezus - might spend more time riding bikes and snowboards over the next year instead of farting around with the 90. Much more fun per dollar and less potential headaches.
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  #196  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers View Post
Probably 'Berkshite' oops typo!
BLR is a UK company, correct? It serves them absolutely NO purpose whatsoever to drop a dime. As it is, it seems as though they will never get another one of their trucks through CBP so it wouldn't have been a good call for them to heighten awareness at all.

There will be a lot of speculation among all of us with regards to what exactly was the impetus of this "crackdown". This thread is already 13-pages long in as little as two days much of it contains mis-information, speculation and non-germane comments (myself included - I have my theories, but it's pointless to hash them out ad-nauseum without a single fact). Aparently we all have a lot of time on our hands and we should divide up and actually do some real research if we're that interested in finding out what is going on with Dr. Aaron and the charges, prosecution's case etc. I wish I had the time to drill deep and find out what's going on. I'll be patient and wait.

The whole thing became too blatent (I've seen more Pumas advertised for sale in the past year and tons of very late model trucks from BLR etc on eBay and the like). I make no judgement and only admire the balls of the individual(s) who imported them and who weren't scared to advertise them publicly. It's just a bit beyond my personal risk tolerance.
What did you think was going to happen? It's easy to blame people for ruining the grey area or making it harder to import, but that's human nature (to want more). If I had the deep pockets and the balls to import a totally restored BLR/galvy frame truck or a "1986" Puma I would have done it as well.

Do you think Homeland/ICE/CPB/EPA really gives a shit about onesies and twosies running 200/300TDis (at least the ones already here)? I doubt it's worth the resources to track them and prosecute. However, when somebody is responsible for importing 20, 30 (possibly many more) over the past 3-4 years and was getting more liberal about what they would import, of course it is going to raise some eyebrows. At one point is was estimated by somebody we know that about 20-30 Defenders per month were being imported under the "25-year rule".....and that was over a year ago when I heard that. I would bet the volume has increased significantly and of that volume I'm guessing that a lot more TDCIs, TD5s and full galvy frame/PUMA dash trucks were included.

I bet it would not have ever become an issue of an individual wanted to import a restored 1985 Defender with non-compliant engine. However, when you can look on eBay and several sellers have many essentially brand new trucks advertised every other month, that becomes a business essentially based on violating several laws, of course its going to be shut down. Now its going to change for everyone......including the one guy who wants to bring in a totally legit 1984/6 original Defender.
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  #197  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:11 AM
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I don't see how engine swaps are illegal at all. Every Chevy and Honda guy would have these dudes up their ass.

Title washing or vin swapping a late model vehicle is definitely an issue. that's most likely what the problem was here.

Also there is no indication that the sky is falling here, just one guy got busted with a load of illegal trucks. If your truck is legal you have nothing to worry about.
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  #198  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:18 AM
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Theoretically,

If one of your competitors was breaking the law to compete in your industry, wouldn't you make a phone call?

I would.

ECR got in a lot of trouble from the DOT about 10 years ago for performing diesel swaps. They are very aware of what is legal and what is not. They have invested a large amount of money into determining what legal boundaries there are in operating their business, and they adhere to them.

What is wrong about that?

Not saying that they did or didnt drop a dime... it could have been anyone (or no one). Regardless of who did or didnt, if the law was being broken and it was reported... I dont see how ANYONE could have a problem with that. If you have a problem with what the law IS, then I understand. But that has nothing to do with any vendor or individual.
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  #199  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
I don't see how engine swaps are illegal at all. Every Chevy and Honda guy would have these dudes up their ass.

Title washing or vin swapping a late model vehicle is definitely an issue. that's most likely what the problem was here.

Also there is no indication that the sky is falling here, just one guy got busted with a load of illegal trucks. If your truck is legal you have nothing to worry about.
300tdi/TD5/TDCi engines are not legal in the US...

from this link:http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour.../engswitch.pdf
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  #200  
Old March 28th, 2013, 11:31 AM
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What age of vehicle does that literature apply to?
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