Restoration of 1993 NAS D110 Needed - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old January 26th, 2008, 10:19 AM
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Restoration of 1993 NAS D110 Needed

I have a 1993 NAS D110 (215/500) that is need of some repairs. My desired goal for this D110 is not a total restoration, but an extreme freshening up. I need an accomplished shop to bring it up to a correct concourse show example, keeping as much as possible original.

The first owner of this Defender had it parked in a garage that was hit by a tornado. The garage fell on it, denting virtually all the body panels, and bending a few of the roll-cage bars. This Defender is rust free, except a few spots on the rear tub capping, doors, and sills. If you own a worthy restoration shop, please review the attached pictures and provide a close guessestimate for the following repairs.


  1. Replace all the dented body panels/skins keeping the original door frames if possible.
  2. Repair the roll-cage, I think that the few bars that are bent could be straightened out.
  3. Repair/replace the roof, some dents.
  4. Replace/repair the headliner
  5. Repair the hood, some of these dents could be pulled out.
  6. Repaint the exterior matching the factory Alpine White including the roll-cage.
  7. Repair/replace the rear tub body capping and paint Alpine White.
  8. Replace all the faded exterior plastic, and AC grill surround (radiator panel).
  9. Repaint or replace the NAS D110 factory Alpine White wheels.

In conclusion, my goal for this D110, is to transform it into a factory correct Defender that looks like its spent its whole life in a garage.

Thanks, Jon



http://www.flickr.com/gp/19680740@N06/553270
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1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
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  #2  
Old January 26th, 2008, 10:33 AM
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Given you're location...Pendy is your man. He rocks, and has a galvanizing shop and superior paint shop that he has a long history with.
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  #3  
Old January 26th, 2008, 11:42 AM
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Hmm, aside from being very scuffed up, the truck looks pretty solid. Not sure what you're planning on spending, but I'd be surprised if you got much change from 20k. There's got to be 150 hours in this job minimum, then your parts. I'm not trying to talk you out of it by any means, just providing my unsolicited advice since I don't own a worthy restoration shop!

Just thinking through your list:

Replace all the dented body panels/skins keeping the original door frames if possible.
- Lots of labor, probably several hours per door, but a good chance to galv the frames. Worst problem is almost every panel has damage, including the tub sides. Buying a new tub will probably be cheaper than fixing yours. The body is going to be the biggest $$$ hit.
Repair the roll-cage, I think that the few bars that are bent could be straightened out.
- No such thing as a tube straightener, bent tubes are never the same again, but the damage doesn't extensive. Worst part is the bent tube about the driver's door. Might be able to order a replacement.
Repair/replace the roof, some dents.
- Doable, but PITA.
Replace/repair the headliner
- Easy, just $$
Repair the hood, some of these dents could be pulled out.
- Like roof, not everyone is adept with fixing aluminum, some will just fill those dents, which you dont want.
Repaint the exterior matching the factory Alpine White including the roll-cage.
- 5k+ for a decent job.
Repair/replace the rear tub body capping and paint Alpine White.
- Straightforward.
Replace all the faded exterior plastic, and AC grill surround (radiator panel).
- Likewise.
Repaint or replace the NAS D110 factory Alpine White wheels.
- Same thing.
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  #4  
Old January 27th, 2008, 01:08 AM
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Thanks Mark,

Thats a lot of work. Its gonna cost. Whoever you get to do it.

I'm guessing you are looking for something of a deal. Since you are posting here to flush out the bidders. 65.00 an hour straight time. From me

And it will take quit a bit of time.

Good luck, nice to see you trying to tidy the old girl up.

Jim Pendleton
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  #5  
Old January 27th, 2008, 08:48 AM
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I didn't post this looking for bids on the work. What I would like to do is open up a dialog on what people have done in the past, what to avoid, ideas, about how much to expect to pay, and of course, recommendations of shops I do not know of. An idea of how much it will cost will help me get an idea on what is a fair price for what I expect. Real good body work is an art form, and you can't bid on it.

I also hope that this post will help others who want to restore their Rovers back to show quality. I already have a D90 to wheel in, but I wanted to do something special for the 110. I am not in a huge hurry to get this done; I just want it done right. But, once I send it to a place I want them to get on it. If I do not drive the D110 in a week, I start to get withdrawals. Gota love these things!
I would like to hear from people like Mark, who have actually done business with, the shops recommend. Here is a list of places I have heard of that could do the work.

1. ECR- we all know of them
2. AAC- a place in Aurora CO
3. Pendy
4. Impatient Creations- http://www.impatientcreations.com/index.html
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  #6  
Old January 27th, 2008, 09:03 AM
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I simply wouldn't send it to a place that isnt a dedicated Rover shop. I'd be pretty pissed if I sent it somewhere and my rivets had been sanded, my spot welds filled in, and I had a row of painted rivets behind the rear passenger doors.

Its a short list:
1) ECR
2) Pendy
3) Matt Browne
4) Shane Ballensky
End of f*%*ing list.

Sure, there are other great guys out there I'd trust with my truck, but those are mostly personal contacts as opposed to these guys that have a number of reliable, well known, well-respected trucks on the road.
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  #7  
Old January 27th, 2008, 09:17 AM
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"rivets had been sanded, my spot welds filled in, and I had a row of painted rivets behind the rear passenger doors."


That is exactly what I wanted to avoid! And this is the reason why I am doing all the research I can before spending thousands of $$$
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  #8  
Old January 27th, 2008, 10:42 AM
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looks ike that pass side tub capping is beyond help- get all of your cappings galvanized. Rover did this on the 110's initially but stopped some where along the way as a cost cutting measure. It's a shame because the older trucks capping are usully in good shape. You can paint it whte after galvanizing.
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  #9  
Old January 27th, 2008, 10:59 AM
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After being in the restoration business for going on 2 decades here are the questions I would ask if I had a car that was going to be restored. This is not a sales picth but these are the questions you should ask and take nothing for given, otherwise your assumptions may be wrong.

1. How long as the company been in business?
This is not always a key to the best shop but it can help in making sure money you give to a shop will not vanish when a new start up company has issues.

2. How many vehicles of that type has that shop completed?
You would not want someone figuring out how to build your prize car as they go along. You want someone who knows the brand, be it Land Rover or Corvette.

3. References?
At least 4 actual customers who had the same type of work done with phone numbers so you can speak with them. Also in this step should be exmaples viewed or at least photos of past work, maybe go to a car show of that brand or something to see examples.

4. Parts?
Where will they come from? Are they in stock, will they need to be ordered causing delays, will they be the genuine part and new, or rehash of something used?

5. Paint.
Who will do the paint work? Will it be quality or just the local body shop? Will they use the correct paint or just spray base/clear like most body shops? How many layers of paint and primer will you get for your $? Do they understand the Rover differences or do they do crash damage all day long on Camrys.

6. Staff.
Is this a one man show or is this a mulit-person operation. If it is one man show what happens if he gets sick or sick of your truck? If it is a multi-person place are the employees stable or does that shop burn through staff (indicates a bad place to work, and likely a bad shop)

7. Go there... meet the people.
I think this is the most important part and it is the most overlooked. IMO.
You are about to spend 10s of thousands of dollars with someone and some people do this without ever having a face to face and never seeing the shop. I can't tell you how many projects we have gone and rescued from dirt floor garages where the shop owner promised the moon (usually a low price) and then could not complete the task for one reason or another. Then that customer now gets to spend more money to fix that shops mistakes. You have to go there and see the shop and meet the people. Its too much money to try and save a few bucks and you have to get a good feeling from the shop and the only way you can do that is face to face. The good feeling you may get may be from the one man show, or it may be from a larger shop. Its up to you.
I think entering into a restoration is like getting married, you gotta know everything. I think picking a shop to do a restoration based on location is stupid. Location in today's world makes no difference. If the only goal is to save money then go with location. If the goal is to have the best work done then use all the critia above to find the shop that fits you best. Doesn't matter who it is, you have to have a good feeling and know they'll give you what you want in the end.

I'm currently having an engine built for my Amphicar project. Its being built in Washington state, not because they are anywhere close to Maine, but because that guy is the best and that is what I wanted.

Also, it took me over a year to get my engine done. You mention speed in your email, wanting a shop to "get on it". This is a HUGE mistake. The engine guy I used is the best, therefore he is busy. If he was sitting around waiting for work to come in then likely he wouldn't be any good and all the other customers would be avoiding him too. Again, its like marriage, if you pick a shop based on only 1 aspect of the above, "speed", then you are setting yourself up for a hurt'n. You need to consider ALL the aspects and weigh them out. If speed is the most important to you then you will likely have to suffer on quality or price. If you pick price you will likely suffer on quality and reputation. Consider everything, not just what immediate gratification makes you feel.
There is a reason why good shops are busy, because they are in demand and there is a reason why other shops sitting waiting for work... because usually they suck. That goes for 57 Chevys, Land Rovers or Amphicars.

Good luck in whatever you choose.
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  #10  
Old January 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
After being in the restoration business for going on 2 decades here are the questions I would ask if I had a car that was going to be restored. This is not a sales picth but these are the questions you should ask and take nothing for given, otherwise your assumptions may be wrong.

1. How long as the company been in business?
This is not always a key to the best shop but it can help in making sure money you give to a shop will not vanish when a new start up company has issues.

2. How many vehicles of that type has that shop completed?
You would not want someone figuring out how to build your prize car as they go along. You want someone who knows the brand, be it Land Rover or Corvette.

3. References?
At least 4 actual customers who had the same type of work done with phone numbers so you can speak with them. Also in this step should be exmaples viewed or at least photos of past work, maybe go to a car show of that brand or something to see examples.

4. Parts?
Where will they come from? Are they in stock, will they need to be ordered causing delays, will they be the genuine part and new, or rehash of something used?

5. Paint.
Who will do the paint work? Will it be quality or just the local body shop? Will they use the correct paint or just spray base/clear like most body shops? How many layers of paint and primer will you get for your $? Do they understand the Rover differences or do they do crash damage all day long on Camrys.

6. Staff.
Is this a one man show or is this a mulit-person operation. If it is one man show what happens if he gets sick or sick of your truck? If it is a multi-person place are the employees stable or does that shop burn through staff (indicates a bad place to work, and likely a bad shop)

7. Go there... meet the people.
I think this is the most important part and it is the most overlooked. IMO.
You are about to spend 10s of thousands of dollars with someone and some people do this without ever having a face to face and never seeing the shop. I can't tell you how many projects we have gone and rescued from dirt floor garages where the shop owner promised the moon (usually a low price) and then could not complete the task for one reason or another. Then that customer now gets to spend more money to fix that shops mistakes. You have to go there and see the shop and meet the people. Its too much money to try and save a few bucks and you have to get a good feeling from the shop and the only way you can do that is face to face. The good feeling you may get may be from the one man show, or it may be from a larger shop. Its up to you.
I think entering into a restoration is like getting married, you gotta know everything. I think picking a shop to do a restoration based on location is stupid. Location in today's world makes no difference. If the only goal is to save money then go with location. If the goal is to have the best work done then use all the critia above to find the shop that fits you best. Doesn't matter who it is, you have to have a good feeling and know they'll give you what you want in the end.

I'm currently having an engine built for my Amphicar project. Its being built in Washington state, not because they are anywhere close to Maine, but because that guy is the best and that is what I wanted.

Also, it took me over a year to get my engine done. You mention speed in your email, wanting a shop to "get on it". This is a HUGE mistake. The engine guy I used is the best, therefore he is busy. If he was sitting around waiting for work to come in then likely he wouldn't be any good and all the other customers would be avoiding him too. Again, its like marriage, if you pick a shop based on only 1 aspect of the above, "speed", then you are setting yourself up for a hurt'n. You need to consider ALL the aspects and weigh them out. If speed is the most important to you then you will likely have to suffer on quality or price. If you pick price you will likely suffer on quality and reputation. Consider everything, not just what immediate gratification makes you feel.
There is a reason why good shops are busy, because they are in demand and there is a reason why other shops sitting waiting for work... because usually they suck. That goes for 57 Chevys, Land Rovers or Amphicars.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

Having had custom rover work done that was expensive...actually more expensive than it should have been for reasons listed above Mike couldn't be more right.

I agree with JimC on the short list but would add one:

Its a short list:
1) ECR
2) Pendy
3) Matt Browne
4) Shane Ballensky
5) Jim Cirbus - doesn't make it his livelyhood but restores rovers and Fj40s for people from time to time and has done some excellent work for me. One of his series examples just sold thru Parkcity4x4.
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  #11  
Old January 27th, 2008, 01:46 PM
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I left Jim Cirbus off simply because I thought he pretty much does stuff on the side. No slight intended, he's a great guy who does great work.

Echoing ECR Mike - we have a joke about military contractors:

"On time, within budget, done right - pick any two"
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  #12  
Old January 27th, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
6. Staff.
Is this a one man show or is this a mulit-person operation. If it is one man show what happens if he gets sick or sick of your truck? ---Or doesn't work well with others! LOL--------If it is a multi-person place are the employees stable or does that shop burn through staff (indicates a bad place to work, and likely a bad shop)

. Consider everything, not just what immediate gratification makes you feel.
There is a reason why good shops are busy, because they are in demand and there is a reason why other shops sitting waiting for work... because usually they suck. That goes for 57 Chevys, Land Rovers or Amphicars.

Good luck in whatever you choose.
Quaility
Price
Timeframe

Any two.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
If you own a worthy restoration shop, please review the attached pictures and provide a close guessestimate for the following repairs.
Okay

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
I didn't post this looking for bids on the work.
Hmmm

Follow-up Post:

I like Mike ECR's post
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  #13  
Old January 27th, 2008, 05:54 PM
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Pendy, I should have been more clear, and what I ment to say:
PM me with a guestamate... and:
I did not want shops bidding as in an auction on this thread.
My intention is to get a good idea at what I am looking at, and some do's and don't's.

PM me or email me with an estimate, or if you want all to see your prices, thats your business.

Hope that clears things up. I should have been more clear, and I hope you do not think I am a flake.

Oh, and Mike, once again I do appreciate all the time you put into not only my questions, but all your other posts.
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2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
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1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
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  #14  
Old January 28th, 2008, 09:12 AM
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Jon,
I sent replies to your emails back in Dec. I got a note from Holly asking if I had received your emails. I did and I replied a long time ago.
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  #15  
Old January 28th, 2008, 10:06 AM
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My saying I use with my clients is:

Good
Fast
Cheap

You only get to pick two.

It's funny how many variations of this are in the thread.
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  #16  
Old January 28th, 2008, 11:46 AM
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The phrase "concours show example" sets a vehicle high into the exponential cost curve. Further, you've mentioned primarily body work when the mechanicals on a 15 year old truck are not likely to reach that pinnacle as well. Were the vehicle mine, and if I were looking for concours quality (often higher than showroom) I would condition myself for two years of work and $75k. Anything less will seem like a savings and you will feel relieved to find such a bargain.


When people demand the best, no matter what area of expertise - but especially when it entails craftsmanship - they must be prepared to wait and spend top dollar. Bids are often meaningless. Material cost is top end and labor can seem like a black hole. All the while, the process itself may still be very efficient, cost effective, and with fair margins. It's just that the "best" isn't done easily.
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  #17  
Old January 28th, 2008, 11:51 AM
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Sell it for 32k and buy a perfect one for 60k.

YMMV
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  #18  
Old January 28th, 2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
here's a link to a photo of their idea of frame repair on a d-90.

scary
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  #19  
Old January 28th, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
here's a link to a photo of their idea of frame repair on a d-90.
WFT. Their webap isnt even working correctly, its gives me 110 pix when I click on the 90 pix. I had to browse their unsecured directories. I bet that job wasnt far off a full frame swap done by someone who knows what they're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
Sell it for 32k and buy a perfect one for 60k.YMMV
Good point.
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  #20  
Old January 28th, 2008, 10:42 PM
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Jon, not sure why, but I don't buy the "parked in a garage that was hit by a tornado" bit - looks like general abuse over time to me.

Mike, got any links to your amphicar build? I love those things.

Dave, that patch would look sweet on Janey though
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