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  #1  
Old November 8th, 2004, 01:03 AM
redrover

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Rear anti rock

A few weeks ago I posted that I had a idea for installing a rear trail style sway bar. I drive a 97SW with md 764 springs on 1.25 spacers all corners. I have Sg external shock mounts and a rear droop kit. What I found with the top heavy truck and soft suspension was that off camber sections were fricken puck factor city. I researched every post I could find about trail anti sway systems on pirattes and d90. What i found was that people who installed them in the rear had little if no reduction in articulation after install. These truck owners had photos of the articulation before and after. The proof was in the pudding.
There has been alot of talk about perfect suspensions. And how if your suspension is set up right you dont need anti roll measures. All I can say is good luck with that theory. The facks are SW's are way top heavy and prone to much more body roll reguardless of suspension.
So I bought the currie 44inch bar setup with the 20 inch arms. The 44inch bar is waisted to .800 of an inch. I found a great spot to mount the system forward of the rear axle. I built the bar tube brackets out of 3/8x4 inch hot rolled steel plate. The plates were then bolted to the already existing bolts on the shock/underside roll cage mount. I then welded the provided tube onto these brackets. Then tabs are welded to the axle tube just inside brake disk shield. Today I took the truck up through french creek on the Holy Cross jeep trail. I intentionally put it in every off camber spot I could create. I COULD NOT believe how much better the truck felt. The system retarded the excess body roll. The 90 felt like it had shaved a few hundred pounds off its heavy top end. BUT the amazing part was I could not see any loss of articulation. I never lifted a rear tire. The sway bar also made the front 3link sqeeze out a little more travel.
I have attatched a few photos. Rock on JP

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Pics

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couple more
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  #2  
Old November 8th, 2004, 02:00 AM
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Looks good! Why are your SG spring drops not working?
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  #3  
Old November 8th, 2004, 02:11 AM
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Michael Elliott
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JP,

I am very interested in what you have done. Interestingly, I had this exact same experience with my Jeep TJ which I used to run without a front sway bar. Big mistake. I achieved incredible articulation but very little actual contact presure at the extremes and an incredible amount of instability. On the recommendation of several friends I installed a Currie Anti-Rock on the front and the increase in stability and body roll was incredible.

I found your post especially interesting as I had never even considered such an install in the back. This is primarily due to the fact that the back of my D-90 SW seems to work fairly well considering that it is close to stock. The front end, in contrast, doesn't flex worth a damn. I have been pondering installing a Currie Anti-Rock to the front to fix this problem, but after reading your post I am curious about your approach. Specifically, I cannot tell from the photos exactly how your front end is set up. Do you run a sway bar at all in the front? Do you know anyone who has installed a Currie Anti-Rock on the front of a D-90? If so, how did they do it and was is successful?

Thanks,

Michael
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Old November 8th, 2004, 09:00 AM
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WOW! Nice job JP!
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  #5  
Old November 8th, 2004, 10:57 AM
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JP,

Kind of hard to tell from the picture but is it hitting the rear frame tube when you droop?

I circled the area in red
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  #6  
Old November 8th, 2004, 02:59 PM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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JP, how much did you pay for the AR? I like how you mounted it. However, this will not work on my truck since my coil over shocks and mounts are much bigger than your setup. Are you running the droop kit up front also?
David, I have seen 6 SG droop kits in auction and only one (Troy McNeill) drooped and it only went 1-1.5" down. I think this system will work best with stiff springs and lower rate droop spring.
I agree with Dave, the AR arm is awfully close if not touching the outrigger in those pictures.
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  #7  
Old November 8th, 2004, 10:02 PM
redrover

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* Dave the spring didnt need to come out of perch for this shot. Prior to the anti rock, I bet the front wouldnt have articulated as much and the rear would have dropped out of perch. Throughout day I checked the clearance of the 20inch bar and the frame outrigger--no contact even with the rear dropped out.

*Michael I am a little confused on your question. I have a 3 link front suspension with external shock mounts. Most people end up with a suspension that gets most of the trucks travel out of the rear. This is not ideal or balanced. The 3link is one of a few setups out there that add great front travel. The 3link is not good on the road. Adding just a anti rock to the front will not increase your front travel. If your going to put just one swaybar on for better road manners- then go front. If you are trying to reduce body roll on the trail- go rear. Some guys with comp buggies use the rear anti rock to control torque roll when throttling up steep climbs. Most folks that have installed the rear setup mention improved front articulation provided there are no limiting factors such as fr shock lenght .

*Lucas" I am you Father", Dave in the photo the horizontal bar is a good half inch above the outrigger.The range of motion measured 1 inch from the torsion bar pivot point is very small. the range measured in circumfrence at the opposite end is much greater. In this case a quater of an inch is a mile. The upward range does not interfere with the roll bar tubbing either. If you were running coilovers you might move the mounting tube rearward another 1/2 in. To do this you would need to notch into the three gussets on the box cross member.If you want to experiment take a 1.5 inch wooden dowl and cut it to 44inches. You can slide it up in there from near your left hand rear slider mount area. Oops I divulged a secret. Hows my spelling so far? Anyway the the bottom of the torsion mounting tube sits about 1 inch higher than the top of the outrigger tube. I am stoked that my guess on bar location panned out on first try.

* Yousef , the anti rocks are around 350 bucks . I though there quality looked better than the other company I found. Also the other folks only had a 42 inch bar. The defender frame needs the 44 in bar for sure. JP
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  #8  
Old November 10th, 2004, 04:09 AM
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Michael Elliott
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JP,

Sorry if I was not clear. Let me try again--my D-90 is a 97 NAS SW. As such, it has the factory front and rear NAS anti roll bars installed. As I am sure you are aware, this set up drives nice and flat on the road, but really sucks offroad, especially with respect to the lack of travel in the front end. Stock Wrangler TJ's also have this same problem due to a similarly designed monster front anti roll bar. However, on the TJ I was able to solve 99% of the problem by installing a front anti-rock sway bar to my TJ. While it limited travel a small bit as compared to being completely disconnected, the amount was trivial compared to the gains in contact pressure, stability, and overall balance in the suspension system as a whole.

This experience with my Wrangler is what gave me the idea regarding installing one on the front of my D-90. I realize now that you have a completely disconnected front three link suspension system, and it seems clear as to why you chose that setup (sorry, I could not tell at first from the photos). However, in my case, for my intended application, it seems that installing a front Currie Anti-Rock would provide a similar result with the D-90 as it did with my Wrangler. This is why I asked you how your front end was set up and if you knew anyone who had in fact installed an Anti-Rock on the front of their D-90.

So, with all of that out of the way, do you know anyone who has installed a front Anti-Rock and runs it with the stock rear anti sway bar intact? If so, what were the results?

Michael
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  #9  
Old November 10th, 2004, 10:43 AM
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Johnathan Tisdale
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JP- I like the setup, next time I'm out your way take me for a ride so I can see how it handles.

Michael- With regard to front suspensions you are comparing apples to oranges. The net result if you removed the front sway bar on both vehicles will not even be close. The stock rover radius arms have relatively limited travel due mainly to binding issues when the arms start to twist under articulation. As JP noted the rear antirock gave him a bit more travel out of the front as the forced articulation from the rear causes the front to respond. Adding an antirock up front won't give you any additional front travel as there isn't much to gain with the stock setup in the first place. I would assume you would have to set it on one of the lowest settings to even get it to respond on the front. My suggestion would be remove the front swaybar and see how it feels on the road, I think you will be suprised at how little effect it has unless you NASCAR your D90.

Tis
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  #10  
Old November 10th, 2004, 04:13 PM
redrover

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Michael, I understand what you want to accomplish. To start , loose the rear swaybar. My son's battery powered jeep has thicker parts than it. Also if you add longer shocks to rear , the swaybar ball joints will invert and get stuck. You will not notice much if any difference on your sw. If you dont wheel often just take em off/put en back on for each trip in rear. It only takes five minuted to remove rear. Tis is right on the front. Front travel is limited by the bushing bind on the control arms and short shocks. If you remove the front on a SW, you will have a little more roll/ over steer when cornering. You might get a small addition of travel with sway disc. I have a Fabitron disconnect somewhere in the garage. This is a easy solution if you want to maintain the best of both worlds on a stock suspension. Most guys just get sick of climbing under a muddy car to disconnect.
I dont know anyone with antirock in front. I have looked into attaching a teraflex S/T swaybar onto the bottom edge of my bumper /frame juntion. Problem is their bar is made for a tj and is a little short. But you could get a anti rock 44in bar in same area. You could put anti rock in stock location with up to a mild 1.5inch lift. But the verticle links would have to be way short. You cannot run a sway in the stock mounting area with a high travel suspension. the front driveline would drop down and rest on the swaybar.
I am now considering a anti rock up front. But it is a very expensive experiment. For now I have no plans of removing the sw top. So i would give up a inch of travel for a rig that can move about on the offcamber stuff a little safer. JP
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  #11  
Old March 18th, 2005, 11:34 AM
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David Marchand
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JP, was the 20" arm just right? I was looking at this and everywhere I look, they ask to specificy arm length.

Also, any chance you can post a pic of the mount you made up. I understand the location, but can't get a mental picture on tube to mount.
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  #12  
Old March 22nd, 2005, 08:43 AM
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Matthew Bremner
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I have also been thinking about using an anti rock sway bar up front paired with the 3-link and external front shocks. Since going with that setup and using my truck as a mainly daily driver with occasional off-road it can get very tipsy in the corners even with a Soft top. Going from stock wheels to stock wheels with spacers helped the stability by widening the track, but it is still soft in the turns. I just can't seem to figure out how to install the anti rock sway bar up front while still using the 3-link. If anyone goes that route, please post pics and a write-up.

Thanks,
Matt
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