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  #1  
Old December 12th, 2010, 02:30 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Random differences between a D90 and a S2A

Recent threads about series hybrids and related changes got me thinking about a few things.

1. What accounts for the 1000 pound difference (2900 vs 3900 approx) between a series 88 and a NAS defender 90 ST. I know it's a bit bigger and longer, but 1000 pounds seems a bit high. I'm guessing it's a little bit here, little bit there, but was wondering if there were any big contributors. I guess the NAS cage is a few hundred pounds for a start.

2. Were Defenders ever made with manual steering? Usually people want to add power steering to series trucks but I was wondering if the opposite was easily done - go manual steering on a defender 90.

thanks,
charles
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  #2  
Old December 12th, 2010, 03:22 PM
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My 83 is manual steering. But I'm not sure if that counts because I believe it is technically called a "Land Rover 110" and not a Defender. The guy I bought it from also has an 83 with manual.

You might be talking about NAS anyways, but there's my two cents
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Old December 12th, 2010, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Jeff. That's good to know, and it would be great to see some pictures if you have any. My guess is it would fit just like the power steering box on later defenders.

Does it feel onerously heavy?
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Old December 12th, 2010, 07:04 PM
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As long as you maintain correct tire pressure its not terrible. Of course maneuvering in parking lots or driveways is not much fun, but sand or gravel feel like power steering. I'll get pics up later

I have RHD so it will be a different set up of course
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  #5  
Old December 12th, 2010, 07:11 PM
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Frame thickness, maybe? I can't remember if there's much of a difference there. That might account for some of the weight difference.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 10:10 PM
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A early ROW 90 is not much heavier than a series.

NAS you have the weight of the cage.

Manual steering is a box nearly the same size as the power one located in the same location. I believe the shaft is the same or at least it looks to be the same/similar. The ratio requires more turns lock to lock (or at least feels that way).
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  #7  
Old December 13th, 2010, 06:38 AM
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Don't forget all the extra weight in the newer suspension.

Leaf sprung suspensions are simple. Just the springs, shackles and bracketry.

Coin springs you have the springs, all the radius arms, panhard rod, A-Arm. Did the S2A have stabilizer bars? Steering stabilizer?

-Hans
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  #8  
Old December 13th, 2010, 07:20 AM
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Yup, the non PAS steering box just bolts in place of the PAS one. same shaft up to the steering column, same type of drop arm.

Like was said, steering isn't overly heavy. all military 2.5 NA diesels came with non PAS (eventhough the same era of civvy rover had PAS as standard...during the early 90's onwards). the latest wolf 300Tdi's have PAS.
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  #9  
Old December 13th, 2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
NAS you have the weight of the cage.
Maybe this is just more than I think. What's your best guess at the weight of the cage including the under body supports?
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Old December 13th, 2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Don't forget all the extra weight in the newer suspension.

Leaf sprung suspensions are simple. Just the springs, shackles and bracketry.

Coin springs you have the springs, all the radius arms, panhard rod, A-Arm. Did the S2A have stabilizer bars? Steering stabilizer?

-Hans
Hans - I would think the same thing that coil sussy would be more weight than a leafer but I was just reading the Jan issue of Four Wheeler and they had a pic of a Chrysler coil vs leaf suspension. Caption said same axle but the coil suspension saved 40lbs. I know it's completely different to a LR but maybe not... IIRC the leaf springs on a Series are pretty thick.

Like mentioned the NAS cage seems like a big weight item, then probably a lot of little things that bring up the weight. The rear step bumper of a NAS could add some 40# then the tire carrier - might run close to 100# there total. Then seats, interior items like extra speakers and stereo, wheels and tires, battery, A/C if fitted. Was that 3,900 lbs for a 94/95 or a 97? Would the auto gearbox and extra interior pieces add more weight? I would like to see what each vehicle had on it then a proper scale weight and then compare. One of these days I'll bring my 90 to the local gravel/mulch place and get it weighed. I think there was a thread here with vehicle specs and weights.
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  #11  
Old December 13th, 2010, 10:52 AM
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I would think all the extra wiring and interior parts add a bit of weight to the Defender over a series truck
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Old December 13th, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
Hans - I would think the same thing that coil sussy would be more weight than a leafer but I was just reading the Jan issue of Four Wheeler and they had a pic of a Chrysler coil vs leaf suspension. Caption said same axle but the coil suspension saved 40lbs. I know it's completely different to a LR but maybe not... IIRC the leaf springs on a Series are pretty thick.
What kind of vehicle was it in? If it's something with a single A-arm, like a sedan or something like that, year the coil system won't weight much at all.

Come to think of it, the radius arms in my old Bronco didn't really weight THAT much when I had them out back then..... of course that was 15 years ago.

-Hans
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  #13  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
What kind of vehicle was it in? If it's something with a single A-arm, like a sedan or something like that, year the coil system won't weight much at all.

Come to think of it, the radius arms in my old Bronco didn't really weight THAT much when I had them out back then..... of course that was 15 years ago.

-Hans
Caption says Ram 1500. The leaf springs looked like a 5 pack - the coil setup added a sway bar, 4 radius arms and a connector arm between the left and right upper arms.

I wonder what the diference in wieght is between a disc vs. drum brake is too.
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  #14  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:08 AM
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Yeah my guess was the suspension would be a wash. Leaf springs have to be heavier than coils and cancel out the a-bar stuff.

I assume the axles and transmission/transfer case can't vary too much.

I am sure there are engine/ancilliaries differences but can't be super huge. The series starter and generator are huge. But things like A/C do add up. Heater might be a bit heavier, radiator is a bit bigger, etc.

Someone doing a resto has to know how much all the cage stuff, bumper, tire carrier etc weigh! Daaaaave?
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  #15  
Old December 13th, 2010, 11:46 AM
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Going from under my 110 to under my IIa, I'd say the coiler frame must weight x2. Of course, that is a totally empirical, seat-of-the pants comment.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 12:53 PM
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whats the weight difference between a series 2.25 engine and the 90 V8?
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  #17  
Old December 13th, 2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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whats the weight difference between a series 2.25 engine and the 90 V8?
The V8 is about 120 pounds lighter.
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  #18  
Old December 13th, 2010, 06:10 PM
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I think NAS frames are made of thinner steel than earlier frames. Wasn't it part of the effort to 'weaken' the frame and introduce crumple zones? I know LR spent a ton of money essentially weakening the Disco frame before bringing it to the US and I thought the same thing was done to the frames in the rest of the models?? I know the frame on my 97 NAS is made of much thinner steel then the older ones I was used to and I thought the change happened around 1994???

That would lighten it though wouldn't it?.....
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  #19  
Old December 13th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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the SW cage I have is alarmingly light.
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  #20  
Old December 13th, 2010, 09:17 PM
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pick up a NAS y pipe....265.75's are a good bit heavier than stock series rubber as well.
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