Question for Shop Owners (and others) - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:08 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Re: DB's post if you mechanic is dumb enough to blame a 90wt leak on the trans you better find someone else quick.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:19 PM
specops1526's Avatar
specops1526
Status: Offline
Brian
Beluga '97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,565
It's definitely trans fluid, they cleaned the area and saw the drip after doing some test drives which cost me an additional $15 in gas since their mechanic has a lead foot. Fluid is pink.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
-I need to figure out a cooler-looking way of getting into the driver's seat

-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beluga 97 D-90
Chawton 04 DII SE
Tangiers 04 DII G4
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:20 PM
bjf's Avatar
bjf
Status: Offline
barry f
94 ST #395
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: los angeles
Posts: 10,969
quick question - Who found the issue with your transfer case being jacked to begin with?

If they found the issue and told you to replace it and you said can i give you the part and they had no issue with it I don't how they are not on the hook. No one is expecting them to warranty the transfer case as they didn't supply it but you do expect them to warranty the actual work. To me this means that the truck is found in the condition they got it with the new part.

Now you can't prove it wasn't leaking before hand but to me as they put the new part in they should make sure with the INSTALL it doesn't leak as it is part of a proper install. New seal, old seal doesn't matter. You paid to have the transfer box installed correctly and this means it not leaking at a seal. You did not get what you paid for.

As for the transfer case working who cares as it could be filled with rocks. We are talking install and that is it.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
So in that case, it has nothing to do with the transfer case you provided them with. There are a number of ways they could have damaged that seal during installation of the transfer case. Truth is that they should take on the job at no cost to you. Reality is that you should not let them work on your truck as it will be a losing battle. Live with the leak, fix it yourself, or hire a someone that does not have their head up their ass. $1200 for a used lt230...they need your money to feed their meth habit. Run away...


Quote:
Originally Posted by specops1526
It's definitely trans fluid, they cleaned the area and saw the drip after doing some test drives which cost me an additional $15 in gas since their mechanic has a lead foot. Fluid is pink.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:31 PM
specops1526's Avatar
specops1526
Status: Offline
Brian
Beluga '97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,565
Shop was the one who diagnosed the problem and told me to replace the tcase along with all the other repairs. I told him I couldn't afford to buy his tcase as it was way too expensive. I asked him if I could find my own and he had no problem with that.

Barry is right, I'm not arguing about the tcase, I'm dissatisfied with the labor/service that I paid for. He should back that up as far as I'm concerned. Sadly, I know he won't.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
-I need to figure out a cooler-looking way of getting into the driver's seat

-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beluga 97 D-90
Chawton 04 DII SE
Tangiers 04 DII G4
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old July 9th, 2009, 02:37 PM
landrovered's Avatar
landrovered
Status: Offline
S. Smith
72 Series III 109 Diesel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under my truck!
Posts: 753
Well it sounds like you have come a long way today already on getting your mind right to resolve the issue. Talking it out first should help you have your arguement honed to a fine point. Being able to discuss the issues at hand knowing where he is coming from should help you resolve it.

It beats the hell out of a shouting match and you may be able to appeal to his logic with the last sentance of the aboive post.
__________________
72 Series III 109 SW Diesel, 03 RR, 98 Porsche 986, 01 Porsche 986 3.6 L
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old July 9th, 2009, 03:05 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
How do you damage a gearbox output seal when plopping on a built up LT230?
That seal is buried behind the seal surface for the LT230 input seal and the t-case has nothing that sticks out to hit it when it goes on.

I guess anything is possible, but, if like most shops, the t-case goes up on a transmission jack and then onto the gearbox it goes up and then onto the shaft and then slides forward.

They would have had to nick the seal by prying the old t-case off with a long pry bar or something.

If the t-case was leaking 90w then that would be easy to damage during an install, but the gearbox output seal????
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old July 9th, 2009, 03:09 PM
specops1526's Avatar
specops1526
Status: Offline
Brian
Beluga '97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,565
His diagnosis is that it's almost definitely the output shaft seal on the transmission. this is an 04 DII if that makes a difference.

anyway, think I'm gonna drive over there in a couple of hours and talk to him about this. I'll let you all know what happens.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
-I need to figure out a cooler-looking way of getting into the driver's seat

-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beluga 97 D-90
Chawton 04 DII SE
Tangiers 04 DII G4
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old July 9th, 2009, 03:20 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Well, the output seal is easier to hit in the automatic as it is not protected as well as the 5 speed one, but it is still a super long shot to mess up the gearbox output seal when changing a t-case, especially if they did not remove the tail shaft (no reason to in doing an t-case swap).

I'd check that the gearbox breathers and all are still in tact. If for some reason the breathers got messed up that could cause a gearbox leak. That would be more likely.

It all depends on where you want to stop. One could argue that in the auto you should change the output seal and the output shaft during that job. Others would say just look at it. Others would just rebuild the existing t-case.
If he had changed the output shaft and the output shaft seal would you have looked at the bill and said,"What are all these extras? I didn't want that done!!"

Its a no win situation. Its easy to armchair this stuff, but impossible to know what happened unless you were doing the work.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by specops1526
It's definitely trans fluid, they cleaned the area and saw the drip after doing some test drives which cost me an additional $15 in gas since their mechanic has a lead foot. Fluid is pink.
That isn't fair.
Did you drop off the truck on empty?

If you did they would have to put gas in it to test it.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old July 9th, 2009, 03:46 PM
specops1526's Avatar
specops1526
Status: Offline
Brian
Beluga '97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,565
Well, he said they checked all the breather tube and there was no clog so that's why he believes it's the output shaft seal...I've come to the realization that it will be a losing battle. I guess you live and learn but I have nothing to lose to talk with him again.

Yeah, I dropped off the car with a 1/4 tank of gas and it was returned to me with that much. Not sure what that charge was about. Total BS if you ask me. Looks like they put about 30 miles on the truck. No way that's $15 in gas. I didn't even question it. Just paid and left pissed off. I won't bring myself to soil their name...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Well, the output seal is easier to hit in the automatic as it is not protected as well as the 5 speed one, but it is still a super long shot to mess up the gearbox output seal when changing a t-case, especially if they did not remove the tail shaft (no reason to in doing an t-case swap).

I'd check that the gearbox breathers and all are still in tact. If for some reason the breathers got messed up that could cause a gearbox leak. That would be more likely.

It all depends on where you want to stop. One could argue that in the auto you should change the output seal and the output shaft during that job. Others would say just look at it. Others would just rebuild the existing t-case.
If he had changed the output shaft and the output shaft seal would you have looked at the bill and said,"What are all these extras? I didn't want that done!!"

Its a no win situation. Its easy to armchair this stuff, but impossible to know what happened unless you were doing the work.

Follow-up Post:



That isn't fair.
Did you drop off the truck on empty?

If you did they would have to put gas in it to test it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
-I need to figure out a cooler-looking way of getting into the driver's seat

-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beluga 97 D-90
Chawton 04 DII SE
Tangiers 04 DII G4
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:04 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
How do you damage a gearbox output seal when plopping on a built up LT230?
yeah, it does seem like you would have to be trying to mess it up.

I was thinking that they might have put too much weight on the t-box during installation. which would seem ok but if it was an older seal and a bit hard? or nicked it with a pry bar, or got dirt in it, who knows.

also, what if the bearings on the input gear are out of spec? could that cause the tailshaft to float a bit? or what if they did do the seal or did remove the tailshaft and aren't saying so? what if they did something that has caused the tallshaft bolt to come loose or improperly torqued it.?

like you say it is all speculation unless you were there.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:08 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by specops1526
Shop was the one who diagnosed the problem and told me to replace the tcase along with all the other repairs. I told him I couldn't afford to buy his tcase as it was way too expensive. I asked him if I could find my own and he had no problem with that.

Barry is right, I'm not arguing about the tcase, I'm dissatisfied with the labor/service that I paid for. He should back that up as far as I'm concerned. Sadly, I know he won't.

I am to the conclusion that if you want it done right you have to do it yourself. At least if it gets fucked up you can get mad at anyone but yourself.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:33 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
My mechanic would smear rightstuff all over the mating surfaces so it will never leak.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:40 PM
oilburner's Avatar
oilburner
Status: Offline
JL
large pile of parts
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: No guns, no crime, no one
Posts: 504
And then you would curse when you have to pull it off again as the T case is glued to the trans (BTDT, it was waaay more difficult to remove than I thought it would be, right stuff is a power to be reckoned with).
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:56 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
yah, I never put sealant between the trans and t-box. it won't keep the oil in the casing.

and I have had to pry them apart when others have done so.

i used right stuff on my series gearbox when I had the bellhousing off. then had to do it a year later...it was a right b****

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilburner
And then you would curse when you have to pull it off again as the T case is glued to the trans (BTDT, it was waaay more difficult to remove than I thought it would be, right stuff is a power to be reckoned with).
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old July 9th, 2009, 04:57 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
It does work to seal it up. I personally would not do it, but he does and that is ok by me.

Ron
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old July 9th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
so where does the oil go that leaks out into the small void between the two boxes? does it just hang out there until it gets bored or cold and then go back into the gearcase? hopefully someone will be in there with it to tell it which gear case to go back into.

or maybe you just sell or scrap the truck before enough of it leaks out to be noticed





Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
It does work to seal it up. I personally would not do it, but he does and that is ok by me.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old July 9th, 2009, 05:36 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
It builds up to the point it equalizes pressure and then gets forced back where it came. It goes back to the one that it leaked out of because that is the one with the lowest threshhold for ingress of oil based on its propensity for egress of oil.

Ron

PS this is complete BS on my part, but I have some faith that it does work.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old July 9th, 2009, 05:56 PM
specops1526's Avatar
specops1526
Status: Offline
Brian
Beluga '97 90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,565
So an update: Went over there and spoke with him. We were both cordial. I stated my case where I felt it wasn't my part that caused the issue but something else when the work was done. He agreed. He said he can't be 100% sure where the leak is coming from until he takes it all apart again, which I agree with. He said he would work with me on cost and do it for bone cheap. Still not sure about that but it is what it is.

He wants to wait a few weeks to see if the leak just "cures itself". He also said that he rarely replaces those as they hardly leak and aren't fully exposed. He said when he mates the tcase to the trans he uses guide dowels just to be safe.

Anyway, so that's my story...not sure what to do next. Not excited to ever go back there. Guess I'll live with the tiny leak for now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho
-I need to figure out a cooler-looking way of getting into the driver's seat

-->
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beluga 97 D-90
Chawton 04 DII SE
Tangiers 04 DII G4
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old July 9th, 2009, 06:19 PM
landrovered's Avatar
landrovered
Status: Offline
S. Smith
72 Series III 109 Diesel
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Under my truck!
Posts: 753
Honestly, I think it came out about as well as you could expect. You had a civil meeting of the minds and found a working solution. Good for you.
__________________
72 Series III 109 SW Diesel, 03 RR, 98 Porsche 986, 01 Porsche 986 3.6 L
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.


Copyright