QUESTION - Buying new Defender in EU - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old January 5th, 2013, 03:12 PM
Beaver
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QUESTION - Buying new Defender in EU

Hey all. I live in France at the moment and for 35k USD I can buy a brand new D90. I'm currently googling but standing on the shoulders of giants is a bit easier... but what would prevent me from being able to bring it back with me when I move to the US? I can think of a lot of theoretical reasons it's not possible but don't have any facts.

I'm supposing the first hurdle is wether or not the vehicle meets certain federal requirements for safety and smog and all that bs.

The second hurdle potentially is import tax?

Don't know if it makes a difference but I am living here legally for 3 years now and am a resident and have all my papers. I am moving back to the US, San Diego, in March. I will need wheels and am reading this forum everyday to see whats out there. Would be nice to just bring one back

------ Follow up post added January 5th, 2013 09:16 PM ------

Eck, I just stumbled on a page explaining the issues with getting them up to NAS. I can't believe the standards are so different.
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  #2  
Old January 5th, 2013, 03:20 PM
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Am sure some of the US guys will chime in but as far as I know a current EU spec D90 doesn't meet the US specs in multiple areas... if it did I'm sure there would be a thriving market in private imports.... secondly an import has to be 25yrs old (or older) 'on paper'..... why do you think there are so many 'rebuilt as new' pre 1988's being built & imported these days.

------ Follow up post added January 5th, 2013 12:23 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
Eck, I just stumbled on a page explaining the issues with getting them up to NAS. I can't believe the standards are so different.
I think it's more a case of, they were never harmonized over the years unlike Europe where the EU forced harmonisation to ease free trade. I understand that in 2015 the EU/US standards will be harmonized to ease cross boarder (atlantic) trade... am sure there is plenty of info in the motoring press on that if you google.
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  #3  
Old January 5th, 2013, 03:43 PM
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You can bring a 2013 Landy back to the US...in 2038.

All vehicles entering the United States must be at least 25 years old (15 years old for Canada) in order to comply with the American DOT and EPA regulations. It is virtually impossible to get the later Land Rover 90/110 models into the country legally. The importation laws are extremely strict and unfortunately there is no easy, practical or legal way to bypass the U.S. customs and excise laws.

The most practical way of obtaining a top quality Land Rover of the legally correct era at a reasonable price that I've found is to have it refurbished or fully re-built, thus obtaining a vehicle in first class condition, but also in complete compliance of the U.S. importation regulations. That's what I did while living in Europe and imported my 1985 110 when I moved back Stateside years later.
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  #4  
Old January 5th, 2013, 03:54 PM
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Best thing to do is buy a 25 year old one, keep it originally spec'd mechanically, yet updated before you move with much of the latest stuff such as new seats AC etc.
BTW California doesn't like diesels very much....
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  #5  
Old January 5th, 2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
BTW California doesn't like diesels very much....
That isn't really true with regards to land rovers. They are more strict on which diesel vehicles are sold new here in CA. As long as the vehicle is pre obd2, you can convert the truck to diesel with the proper inspection, and they will change your title to diesel. Also, it isn't a very big deal to register a 25+ year old vehicle if it is diesel. There are no SMOG inspections on diesel vehicles older than 1998. Technically the diesel motor does need to be a EPA approved. (or exempt)
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  #6  
Old January 5th, 2013, 04:05 PM
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  #7  
Old January 5th, 2013, 04:50 PM
Beaver
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So my options are to buy 25 yrs and older and import with no problem or import and rebuild with the downside being it would have to meet 2013 DOT requirements.

Will the rebuilding it affect the title/sale value later down the line?

Looking is killing me...
http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/off...rover+defender

found an importer
http://www.gnkauto.com/

I guess the big question is how much am I willing to pay to have a "new" Defender?
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  #8  
Old January 5th, 2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
rebuild with the downside being it would have to meet 2013 DOT requirements.
Whether you rebuild it or not, you never have to meet DOT regulations. Ever. The truck must be 25 years old or older, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
Will the rebuilding it affect the title/sale value later down the line?
The title will not change.

Sale value....not sure what you're getting at there. If you're asking whether a rusted out, beat down 25 year old truck is worth less than a totally restored 25 year old truck, yes, it's worth less.
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  #9  
Old January 5th, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Beaver - despite you wishing it wasn't the case ... You can't bring a new defender into the US. Period.

What people do to get around this is 'rebuild' and old vehicle using all new parts but the old VIN number. The more cynical of us think that a lot of times someone just changes the VIN number on the vehicle for an old one. VIN swapping is illegal in the US, UK and probably France

There is a thread called something like what's legal ... It's not legal advice but discussion around this topic ad nausium. Read it from start to finish at least twice before thinking about what you should do.
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  #10  
Old January 5th, 2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Whether you rebuild it or not, you never have to meet DOT regulations. Ever. The truck must be 25 years old or older, period.



The title will not change.

Sale value....not sure what you're getting at there. If you're asking whether a rusted out, beat down 25 year old truck is worth less than a totally restored 25 year old truck, yes, it's worth less.
That's not what I was saying. I understood anything older than 25 years is fine...

I was assuming, wrongly now I see, that there was some legal trickery to import newer rebuild and obtain a different vin/title etc. I was wondering if something like a salvage title might be associated with the vehicle so that it's history would have a black mark. It's all bullshit and not exactly legal so it's a moot point.

It seems though, whether or not this is realistic financially, I can import any vehicle and pay to have it meet DOT requirements. Just like CMSgt Bo said he did. No trickery or BS... just probably lots and lots of money which totally sucks.

From the G & K AUTOMOTIVE CONVERSION, INC page.

G & K AUTOMOTIVE CONVERSION, INC. provides conversion services for vehicles imported from overseas. G & K offers modification services for vehicles, motorcycles, ATV's etc to meet DOT and EPA requirements for individuals and manufacturers. Every car that is manufactured outside the United States and is imported into the United States needs to be modified to meet U.S. DOT and EPA federal standards. We can make all necessary arrangements to clear vehicles through customs, and transport it to our facility to start the conversion process. Our services include the following:
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  #11  
Old January 5th, 2013, 05:55 PM
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A defender can never meet crash standards, the engines are not EPA approved ... It's a waste of time.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #12  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
From the G & K AUTOMOTIVE CONVERSION, INC page.

G & K AUTOMOTIVE CONVERSION, INC. provides conversion services for vehicles imported from overseas. G & K offers modification services for vehicles, motorcycles, ATV's etc to meet DOT and EPA requirements for individuals and manufacturers. Every car that is manufactured outside the United States and is imported into the United States needs to be modified to meet U.S. DOT and EPA federal standards. We can make all necessary arrangements to clear vehicles through customs, and transport it to our facility to start the conversion process. Our services include the following:
You'd better buy two trucks. One to have converted to DOT and EPA specs, and the second for Federal crash testing and certification. There's a reason Land Rover stopped importing Defenders in 1997.
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  #13  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:08 PM
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Read up about bill gates 959 Porsche and then you'll realize that even with his money he had to get a law enacted. And before you get excited the defender isn't on that list. In fact the only way you could do it legit is

1. Own a dealership ... They have some rules that allow test vehicles.

2. Buy land rover from TATA and correct all these wrongs.

3. Become a diplomat and have one for the duration of your US posting.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #14  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
It seems though, whether or not this is realistic financially, I can import any vehicle and pay to have it meet DOT requirements.
No, you cannot. The only vehicles that you can ever import and "modify" to meet DOT requirements are in this list:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/elig101012c.pdf

If it is not on that list, then you wait 25 years, and no amount of money will allow it to ever meet DOT requirements.

The financial realism is really irrelevant.
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  #15  
Old January 5th, 2013, 06:52 PM
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Steve,

When do you plan to come back to the USA?

If you plan to come back let's say in two years. You can buy a 1990 today and you'll be able to import it.

By then the truck will be 25 years old and you will be good to go.
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  #16  
Old January 5th, 2013, 07:01 PM
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Next you are going to tell me there's no Santa.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:05 PM
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Your the one having to avoid walking in the Parisian dog shit everyday ... Surely that's evidence enough that there is no santa
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #18  
Old January 5th, 2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Beaver View Post
Next you are going to tell me there's no Santa.
Not only there's no Santa...

There'so tooth fairy and no eastern bunny.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rrc.swb View Post
Not only there's no Santa...

There'so tooth fairy and no eastern bunny.
There is an Easter bunny ... Alas no eastern bunny.
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Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #20  
Old January 5th, 2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post

There is an Easter bunny ... Alas no eastern bunny.
Don't confuse it with the Playboy Bunnies
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