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  #21  
Old September 26th, 2009, 09:50 AM
redhummer96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander
from what I'm tracking, Tata thinks LR should pursue the military market even harder, and are pushing them to pursue military contracts. additionally, the British are finding, like ourselves, that the lighter duty vehicles like the HUMMV and the Defender, while significantly more vulnerable to IED attacks than the MRAPs (brits have MRAPs now too in limited quantities), many of the operational places in Iraq and Afghan are not suitable to MRAP's due to their size and intimidating appearance to local nationals. This is causing a rethinking in both militaries. Linked to this, I recently read that while the British were originally planning to replace their Defender fleet with a new more capable (with respect to combat protection capability), they are now looking at revamping the existing Defender fleet, due to the reasons I already pointed out, and likely also due to the cost savings of revamping versus replacing with a newer model during a global economic recession.

This tells me that LR will likely have their plate full with orders on Defenders just as they are, and will not want to redesign a Defender and retool a line that already keeps the books full.

Maybe they still might design a new consumer market "Defender" based on the new platform, but I doubt they are going to replace the existing Defender 90 and 110 production lines at the same time. Maybe both can survive in Sulihull.

I think one of the biggest challenges of keeping the Defender and other current not-US rigs out of North America is our unreasonable resistance as a consumer market to diesels. We suck. I can't imaging any importer that is going to spend R&D to design a new big petrol SUV and pay the money to get that petrol V6 or V8 approved with EPA, and all that crash testing with the DOT, when large SUV sales in the US are dropping off big time. Do you think Americans would pay premium luxury SUV prices (40k-50k) for a less comfortable Defender that gets maybe 14-15mpg with a gas engine? Think about the common buyer here (not the Niche), the Soccer mom. LR4 or Defender?

The defender needs to directly compete with utility and commercial platforms in the US, which is where it fits in the ROW. So F150 or Defender?

If Land Rover did exploit the current market, and take a gamble on if people are ready to adopt diesel as an engine type in the US now, they could test the waters with the LR4 by introducing a TD version. If it did surprise everyone and become successful (are people ready for 23-30 mpg luxury SUV at the cost of it being a diesel? Don't know because none of the importer marquees will try it), then perhaps that might pave the way for LR to look harder at Defender introduction here. remember that most Defenders sold in ROW are diesel.
I think you are spot on with this statement. The problem IS getting the "normal" public in the US to accept a diesel option. It is just not something that we as a nation are used to. A good example would be the Jeep Liberty and Jeep Gr. Cherokee that both had a Mercedes diesel option for a few years. We could hardly give the things away, except for a few people who realized the benefits of the increased mileage (MPG).

In case you guys have not heard, Mahindra is bringing over a 2 small pickups (regular and crew cab) and a 4 door SUV, that will be powered by 4 cyl diesels (with even a hybrid diesel option coming). These vehicles will be here in the December/January time frame. If the Mahindras sell, I think this could be a good test point for Land Rover.
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  #22  
Old September 26th, 2009, 10:28 AM
stu454
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BMW seems to be pushing diesel pretty hard, at least in tv ads.
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  #23  
Old September 26th, 2009, 10:40 AM
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That's not a new defender - its the fire and ice edition which we've already spent a good deal of time hating on. Not that we shouldn't hate on it more, its just not a new defender.
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  #24  
Old September 26th, 2009, 11:12 AM
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I think it is a myth that the US consumer will not accept a diesel.

Look at how well the Jetta, bug and Passatt sold. When we were looking to buy a new car we looked at the VW diesels and they were hard to find due to demand and used ones were almost as much as the new ones.

Toyota, Isuzu, chevy luv and VW sold some diesel trucks here in the us and old beatup used ones are 2 - 3x as expensive as a gas of the same shape / year, again look at the used diesel cars such as mercedes and VW, people snatch them up when they are for sell and pay more than they would for a gas car.

When the Liberty came out they underestimated the market for them and you could not find one on the lot around here. Unfortunately they started having a bunch of issues and people started to avoid them due to the problems.

With the current push for everything green / MPG and the blind masses buying up whatever makes them feel good there has to be a market for a high MPG green diesel that can run b20 or bio diesel.
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  #25  
Old September 26th, 2009, 12:06 PM
redhummer96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas
I think it is a myth that the US consumer will not accept a diesel.

Look at how well the Jetta, bug and Passatt sold. When we were looking to buy a new car we looked at the VW diesels and they were hard to find due to demand and used ones were almost as much as the new ones.

Toyota, Isuzu, chevy luv and VW sold some diesel trucks here in the us and old beatup used ones are 2 - 3x as expensive as a gas of the same shape / year, again look at the used diesel cars such as mercedes and VW, people snatch them up when they are for sell and pay more than they would for a gas car.

When the Liberty came out they underestimated the market for them and you could not find one on the lot around here. Unfortunately they started having a bunch of issues and people started to avoid them due to the problems.

With the current push for everything green / MPG and the blind masses buying up whatever makes them feel good there has to be a market for a high MPG green diesel that can run b20 or bio diesel.
Trust me, both Liberty and Gr. Cherokees were only hard to find due to the limited amount of vehicles that DaimlerChrysler built. Our last diesel Gr. Cherokee sat on our lot for a over year before an employee here at our dealership purchased it due to some pretty big incentives from Chrysler for dealership employees at that time. Were they hot at the very begining of their production? Yes, the early intenders snatched them up quickly, but this was short lived.

I am hoping that Mahindra is succesful with their attempt and maybe others will follow.....
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  #26  
Old September 26th, 2009, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhummer96
I am hoping that Mahindra is succesful with their attempt and maybe others will follow.....
Are they going to sell them under the Mahindra name? If so they might have a hard time as most people do not know that company and will be a bit leary of buying something that expensive not knowing if they will stay in business here in the states.
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  #27  
Old September 26th, 2009, 06:12 PM
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If they do make a new rover with independent suspension, please please give it a new name at the same time. It will be a Rover, but it will NOT be a DEFENDER!!!!!

jeep liberty diesel engine would be perfect in a D90..

`Steve
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  #28  
Old September 26th, 2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revtor
If they do make a new rover with independent suspension, please please give it a new name at the same time. It will be a Rover, but it will NOT be a DEFENDER!!!!!

jeep liberty diesel engine would be perfect in a D90..

`Steve
What wrong with a Ford Transit Diesel engine ???

How about Surrendered 90 and 110, or Offended 90 and 110
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  #29  
Old September 26th, 2009, 07:07 PM
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I saw bigfoot today. (the hairy one, not the truck).
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  #30  
Old September 26th, 2009, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
I saw bigfoot today. (the hairy one, not the truck).
the truck one left international drive in orlando, there was a 3 year old in the back who was very upset.
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  #31  
Old September 26th, 2009, 09:54 PM
redhummer96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas
Are they going to sell them under the Mahindra name? If so they might have a hard time as most people do not know that company and will be a bit leary of buying something that expensive not knowing if they will stay in business here in the states.
Yes, under the Mahindra name. Trucks will be in the mid to low $20's new.

http://www.mahindrana.com/
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  #32  
Old September 27th, 2009, 04:48 PM
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The pressure is on to get the most mpg's out of new cars in No. America and Mercedes has been getting there diesels in this country for along time now.... their latest version, the CDI is now in two of there suv's and the sedans. Bmw finally got there diesel approved.... X5d, and the 335d. Audi also selling their models this year.
Volkswagon has always been a factor with the Tdi, although they would sell more of them if they mated the Tdi with the AWD system????
Jeep/Chrysler/Daim. did not vigorously push there diesel like for example Bmw with there TV ads.
We will get there, like the other country's. We just have to keep the pressure on and feed them in their mouths ( instead of all the junk food ) on the benifits of clean diesel even though its more money pr/gl than gasoline.
Speaking of the bureaucracy, how the the hell does a company from nowhere, Mandrinha.... who the f*** is this and they can there diesel vehicles in here and Land Rover who was owned by an American giant...Ford couldn't do shit to import at least one version of LR diesel or Ford diesel for that matter, please.
I might as well go buy a Rosetta Stone cd to learn how to speak Chinese or Korean or whatever because something tells me we are gonna need it!
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  #33  
Old September 27th, 2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnthng
Volkswagon has always been a factor with the Tdi, although they would sell more of them if they mated the Tdi with the AWD system????
Yes they would sell a lot, they got a customer right here when they bring the 4motion jetta tdi in.
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  #34  
Old September 27th, 2009, 05:48 PM
redhummer96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnthng
The pressure is on to get the most mpg's out of new cars in No. America and Mercedes has been getting there diesels in this country for along time now.... their latest version, the CDI is now in two of there suv's and the sedans. Bmw finally got there diesel approved.... X5d, and the 335d. Audi also selling their models this year.
Volkswagon has always been a factor with the Tdi, although they would sell more of them if they mated the Tdi with the AWD system????
Jeep/Chrysler/Daim. did not vigorously push there diesel like for example Bmw with there TV ads.
We will get there, like the other country's. We just have to keep the pressure on and feed them in their mouths ( instead of all the junk food ) on the benifits of clean diesel even though its more money pr/gl than gasoline.
Speaking of the bureaucracy, how the the hell does a company from nowhere, Mandrinha.... who the f*** is this and they can there diesel vehicles in here and Land Rover who was owned by an American giant...Ford couldn't do shit to import at least one version of LR diesel or Ford diesel for that matter, please.
I might as well go buy a Rosetta Stone cd to learn how to speak Chinese or Korean or whatever because something tells me we are gonna need it!

Mahindra is an Indian company....ectremely large with a seemingly endless barrel of cash. They have there hands in a little bit of everything in their part of the world. They have been selling small to mid size tractors here in the US for several years now (a budget class tractor) with pretty good success.
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  #35  
Old September 28th, 2009, 01:35 PM
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Charles Galpin
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I believe the tide is turning on diesel. The combination of consumers desiring better fuel economy and multiple companies pushing it as a green alternative (i see ads all the time now) means it will work.

At least thats what I tell myself anyway
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  #36  
Old September 28th, 2009, 02:08 PM
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David Marchand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
Yes they would sell a lot, they got a customer right here when they bring the 4motion jetta tdi in.
doesn't the new base AWD Toureg have a diesel now?
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  #37  
Old September 28th, 2009, 02:28 PM
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William Skidmore
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you have to also remember most of the advances made in diesel engines came from the strong incentives from the various European governments or early EU government from way back in the day to the car and truck companies to have more efficient and cleaner engines. So more or less the popularity of the diesel engine came from the push of the government not from market forces. Which is how it happens in Europe.
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  #38  
Old October 1st, 2009, 09:21 AM
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Jon
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Say It Aint So!

The end of the defender as we know it.

http://www.rpmgo.com/new-land-rover-...appear-in-2012
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  #39  
Old October 1st, 2009, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitz
The end of the defender as we know it.

http://www.rpmgo.com/new-land-rover-...appear-in-2012
wtf again, and they give us a V8 without the option for diesel
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  #40  
Old October 5th, 2009, 07:04 PM
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bart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhummer96

I am hoping that Mahindra is succesful with their attempt and maybe others will follow.....
just what we need. another complete piece of garbage carrying the diesel flag.

and i mean complete. mid 20's for a 1/4 ton mini truck that wont last 3 years?

you got 2 choices for mass market companies that can get americans driving small diesel trucks.

ford or toyota. and neither one is interested with good reason.
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