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  #61  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnduroPro View Post
No doubt. But a simple paragraph at the preorder would make for a much better experience. Simple 101.
May already be there. One-man craftsmen shops also don't have the ability to expand and contract with demand (or external market forces like vacations, or sick leave, or broken tools, or whatever), so dates move and no one likes that.. Like Chris responded in this thread, he's working on things, and has probably communicated the same outside of our sphere of knowledge.

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2015 08:24 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Again in Chris's mind he thinks he is giving you an accurate date. Here is my take away from this thread. We as a community do not crucify Chris in the same way we have other vendors and this is what I believe to be the reasoning.
1. In the end you get a quality product. Other vendors who never can meet dates can't even say that. How many discussions are there about trucks built like shit or engines that don't run.
2. Chris will never steal from anyone. If the wait is too great he will refund the money.
Hear hear
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  #62  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:24 PM
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PS: I bet Michelangelo got shit from his customers too.
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  #63  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:25 PM
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By the way, I have a nasty old Tickford that I will send to Badger supporters for the cost of shipping from Southern Maine. Chris has always gone above and beyond in my dealings with him.
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  #64  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:26 PM
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By the way, I have a nasty old Tickford that I will send to Badger supporters for the cost of shipping from Southern Maine.
Pm sent
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  #65  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:56 PM
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This could be a first, but I agree with Barry. Chris anticates a given time. But other customers call, and he talks to them- for hours if needed. Employees quit, further delaying his artwork. Then he hires, and imagine this- actually trains said new employee. More time gone, but trying to fix an endless delivery issue. New employee realizes what these things fetch, and go out on their own, again creating a void. In all reality, Chris needs a phone contact/manager, but who is knowledgable. Never going to happen, because we will all want to talk to Chris, and continue to put him behind....

In the end, the irony is if Chris projected 8-12 months instead of weeks, he would cure this whole thread. Then he can deliver in 8 months and be a hero!! Sadly, or perhaps not so sadly, he won't do that, because he feels a personal responsibility to help the customer. Each and every customer- every single time!! What a horrid business model this creates in this day and time.

Hang in there Chris, but please continue to serve this community, as some of us certainly appreciate the effort!! I have an old original Tickford pattern I am hoping to fit to my 90, so I best get it up to you, as I trust no one else with it. Cheers my friend!!
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  #66  
Old June 16th, 2015, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron View Post
The Bagder top new is $2395 and the RN top is $2199 how is that literally half the price ? I must be missing something.....

Yes you must be missing something. As in the quote I have in writing for $4,620 including hardware and shipping.
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  #67  
Old June 16th, 2015, 09:31 PM
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It is not hard to communicate to your customers who have paid your company money that your entire work force is gone except for you and that the product will be delayed. This is purely an assumption based on the defensive posts by randos.

This is the complaint. Pushed delivery dates followed by lack of communication. How many customers have an order in at any given time? It can't be that difficult to come up with a realistic delivery timetable and make some phone calls or shoot out multiple emails. You check emails first thing and at the end of the day if you're on your own, or on smoke breaks, coffee breaks, deuce breaks, etc.

The quality of the product is not an excuse for poor business/customer support.

Just think about this in terms of a customer's money tied up for a certain amount of time. We're talking about a top w/kit that costs roughly $5k. It takes what? 1.5 years to get your junt delivered. So a company is keeping $5k of a customers money for 1.5 years. If an entire vehicle rebuild cost $50k that'd be 15 years later and you get your truck delivered to you. If the quality is there, is that reasonable? No. That's why customers keep posting things like this. The solution is just communicate and these folks won't care. If they get pissy, just offer a refund(which apparently happens).
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  #68  
Old June 16th, 2015, 09:57 PM
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Jay Geaney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Words.
This thread drips of an instant gratification/ "Everyone needs a trophy" SNAP culture...

You know what I mean- When studs quibble over a hook...

Do you have a soft top Land Rover?

Would you ever be a customer of Badger Coachworks?
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  #69  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:16 PM
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If I had a NAS probably because the other options aren't that good from what I can tell.

Converting my 110 with the all wheel trim kit.

They said they were waiting on a part for the kit and haven't shipped it for that reason. They don't charge until it's out the door. That makes sense and is better for a customer.


I'm not following your post? You are saying I'm quibbling on jumping on the slam wagon? I don't think the anology works. Not talking to customers is not talking to customers and if you have someone 's money it's messed up and is the root cause of the wtf badger threads that surface every year.
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  #70  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:20 PM
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Customers don't keep posting threads like this... First time buyers do... Once you get one of his tops you will immediately order more from him and shut your mouth and patiently wait inline for the next one.
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  #71  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:26 PM
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Brian Kandefer
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The best thing about this thread is how Chris doesn't even have to come on to defend him self... We as a community are doing that for him, his quality of work speaks for itself...
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  #72  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:29 PM
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I think all you guys who are full of criticism should spend 20+ years of your life sewing better products and then show everyone how it's done, otherwise if you don't like the Badger business model take your business elsewhere and ignore one of the most successful Rover enthusiasts in the community who will certainly have no trouble finding buyers for everything he produces without your patronage.

Tidbits: When the D-90 was a new USA import, Land Rover North America contracted with Badger Coachworks to both repair genuine tops and produce the one and only genuine Land Rover replacement tops for the Land Rover Dealership Network. I suspect this was about or before the time many of you haters were being potty trained or at a maximum still in the first few years of grade school.
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  #73  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:33 PM
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This is misc chit chat. It's free for discussion. If you can't handle criticism and think it shouldn't exist then complain to the mods to get the thread deleted... sounds familiar.
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  #74  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:35 PM
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Problem with Badger Coachworks

Some people here quick to defend Badger are missing the point. Nobody is arguing the quality of his awesome work.

A local farm in my town sells ice cream. The ice cream is so good that they have to direct traffic for parking and wait an hour in line. The point here is that the customers immediately understand the wait and are willing to wait. Managing customer expectations will provide for a much better experience all around. Ok I'm done. People defending Badger seem to be defending the product, not the process. I'm out.
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  #75  
Old June 16th, 2015, 10:45 PM
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As Barry said this should probably be sticky... if you are in a rush or have a problem waiting than look elsewhere... less wait time for the rest of us... now I'm out.
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  #76  
Old June 16th, 2015, 11:13 PM
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Let me tell you about my landscaper....

- You call/email him asking for a quote on work.
- At some random point in the future you get a great design in you front door with a quote.
- You call him back with the OK and talk about a general time frame.
- At some random time in the future you drive down the driveway and see a bobcat, a truck or a pile of something in the street which is the first indicator that work will be done.
- The work is AWESOME and a great value for the $$$.
- Now the waiting for the bill starts...and you may need to remind him....
- This last time is came 6 months later and he charges you for most of the work he did...
- Guess who I call next time I need work done...

Some things are worth the wait...even if that wait is longer that you first expect.

If you were patient enough to read all of this...you might be interested that Badger has a GK strapless bikini in stock and ready to ship :-)
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  #77  
Old June 16th, 2015, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnduroPro View Post
Some people here quick to defend Badger are missing the point. Nobody is arguing the quality of his awesome work.

A local farm in my town sells ice cream. The ice cream is so good that they have to direct traffic for parking and wait an hour in line. The point here is that the customers immediately understand the wait and are willing to wait. Managing customer expectations will provide for a much better experience all around. Ok I'm done. People defending Badger seem to be defending the product, not the process. I'm out.
I so didn't want to get in on this, especially since my $4k badger top I bought in the early 2000's is just sitting in my storage room with all the rest of my Defender Apocalypse parts (mostly ST parts, and no I'm not selling anything.... yet) while I enjoy my new SW and hopefully won't have to worry about anything ST anytime soon... It's just ironic cos I just left my mechanic who commented how awesome my top was, and how it was so much better than most he's seen (including his)

Anyway, Chris was awesome when he sold it to me, he was awesome to sell me some replacement straps years later, and even offered to sew them back on if I sent him my top.

So my comment to all you so called biz pros, is to use this exact example that EnduroPro provided, but which actually supports the Chris's of the world.

If the awesome ice-cream place, with a one man ice-cream staff, gets lines of happy ice cream buyers around the town, all patiently waiting, well guess what? that's good business, and customers expectations will be managed by their ability to wait in line and enjoy a product worth it, and will probably return for it time after time, all with expectations set appropriately to wait for the finished product. I realize it is clearly not for the new generation of overly entitled, McDonald's "have it your way" and right now, folk. As someone mentioned, it's a newby expectation, and totally understandable. Trust me, we were all there. The end product made everything all worth it. We shut up, and if we needed anything again, we self managed our expectations and added zeros to the ETA.

Another example. My go to mechanic for the last decade, is a one man shop, but is the slowest mother fucker in the world. He is also the best, and will save you $$$ anyway he can, but speed is not his thing. I've known that for the past decade, and yeah when I left one of my trucks there (had 3 LR products at the time and he took care of them all) for something I was promised in a week, that turned into 3 mos, yeah I was a little pissed, but the end result.... priceless!!!

So for anyone searching Badgerworks, know he is similar to that small rare home brewed ice cream place in small town America (cos you know f ing city folk are too impatient to wait for that kind of goodness). You've got to be patient. And yes you have to triple his ETA. Sorry, but I am a business consultant and have more degrees and experience than most I know on achieving business success, but when it comes to a small business, correction a frigging one man shop, the last thing it needs is business management and customer service case studies and advice from the HBS and Stern types. That is what destroyed most ma & pa businesses. People who are too focussed on big business models sometimes forget what keeps those great ice shops with lines for hours open.

Also for those who can't tell the difference between Badgerworks and dare I say, ULC. Well could all the people with an excellent final product from ULC raise their hand? Ok now those with problems with their end product please raise their hands? Yeah, I thought so...

Just my $0.02.

I'll go back to ignoring shit I have absolutely no interest in.


BADGERWORKS WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT. IF YOU'RE IN A RUSH, THEN SETTLE FOR THE NEXT BEST SHIT. simple
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  #78  
Old June 16th, 2015, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
That is a seriously flawed business model.

I have tried to bite my tongue this entire thread, but there have been other vendors crucified on here for not meeting timeline expectations.

It's really not that f'ing hard to figure out how much product you can produce in a given time unless of course you opened your doors last week.........otherwise you're making excuses. If I told my owners sorry, I'll need another 6 months to finish your project because I'm just busy.........but, don't worry the quality is good, I'd be out of business in short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdread View Post
I so didn't want to get in on this, especially since my $4k badger top I bought in the early 2000's is just sitting in my storage room...

I'll go back to ignoring shit I have absolutely no interest in.


BADGERWORKS WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT. IF YOU'RE IN A RUSH, THEN SETTLE FOR THE NEXT BEST SHIT. simple
.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
I never heard it told like that before
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  #79  
Old June 17th, 2015, 12:00 AM
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Problem with Badger Coachworks

.....
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  #80  
Old June 17th, 2015, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
.....
Lest we forget, Chris makes the tops, not the fabrics. The materials he sources are out of his control, but the qc of the final product is all on him! Thus, he is dependent on global supply and fabrication of superior material. And as we all know the world is far from a stable place, especially where his raw material come from. And when sourcing spools is good, he's into our optional colors for thousands, if not tens of thousands. Good for us, right. All my Badger is Sonnenland Porsche Anthracite and I had to fall back on the schedule due to sourcing issues. Again, not his fault, but worth the wait. My half cab still looks better than my neighbor's turbo ragtop. Just something to remember.
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