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  #41  
Old June 16th, 2015, 12:05 AM
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William
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader View Post
May be worth searching the history of those readily available tops. There are those of us that have been here a while, including Chris, and have seen some sneaky/sketchy ways to replicate his product.

As Robert indicates, Chris has been the 'go to top guru' -even for LRNA back in '94. So his business model of making the best top available must be working given the 20+ years he has done same.
Just saying...
I did some research on this forum and in general before buying the RN top and weighed that into my personal decision to buy one. Another factor for me was the RN top was literally half the price I was quoted by Chris so I don't think one should expect the same quality given the price difference.

That being said I think the quality is quite good. I had no fitment issues other than the normal initial fitting to stretch it but a sunny day and a few hours heating up solved that. The only issue I did have was I was shipped two driver side window inserts so the passenger side didn't line up as the zipper was the wrong way. RN literally shipped me one the very same day I contacted them and it arrived the next day with a self addressed return shipping label for the return. In my opinion that's great customer service.

So having things not lining up, sagging, or the rear window being too long haven't occurred in my case with the RN top. Maybe I got lucky, maybe they improved production quality, not sure which it is. But the RN customer service in my experience is great.

I haven't had the benefit of a Badger top, although I am quite sure they are as good as people say since a lot of people rave about them. Hard to have that kind of loyalty and that kind of positive word of mouth with a bad product. That being said I don't think that having an amazing product means you should just ignore customer service and go dark on your customers.
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  #42  
Old June 16th, 2015, 12:14 PM
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Christopher Laws
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I am tied to my machine and making product as fast as I can. I just left a message on Chris Cicoletti's phone. My bad for not getting stuff out when promised, my bad for not calling people back. Back to sewing. Thank you to all of the Land Rover owners that support me.
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  #43  
Old June 16th, 2015, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgerman View Post
I am tied to my machine and making product as fast as I can. I just left a message on Chris Cicoletti's phone. My bad for not getting stuff out when promised, my bad for not calling people back. Back to sewing. Thank you to all of the Land Rover owners that support me.

the signature line says its all


I am a cheap fuck when it comes to certain land rover "accesories". That the set of Badger Coachworks seat covers I bought used on this site and sold on this site had a much better fit and finish and were of higher overall quality than my new Kexbys. You cant rush quality, this guy is the best.
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  #44  
Old June 16th, 2015, 01:58 PM
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George
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
the signature line says its all


You cant rush quality, this guy is the best.
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  #45  
Old June 16th, 2015, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmatos1001 View Post
I did some research on this forum and in general before buying the RN top and weighed that into my personal decision to buy one. Another factor for me was the RN top was literally half the price I was quoted by Chris so I don't think one should expect the same quality given the price difference.

That being said I think the quality is quite good. I had no fitment issues other than the normal initial fitting to stretch it but a sunny day and a few hours heating up solved that. The only issue I did have was I was shipped two driver side window inserts so the passenger side didn't line up as the zipper was the wrong way. RN literally shipped me one the very same day I contacted them and it arrived the next day with a self addressed return shipping label for the return. In my opinion that's great customer service.

So having things not lining up, sagging, or the rear window being too long haven't occurred in my case with the RN top. Maybe I got lucky, maybe they improved production quality, not sure which it is. But the RN customer service in my experience is great.

I haven't had the benefit of a Badger top, although I am quite sure they are as good as people say since a lot of people rave about them. Hard to have that kind of loyalty and that kind of positive word of mouth with a bad product. That being said I don't think that having an amazing product means you should just ignore customer service and go dark on your customers.
The Bagder top new is $2395 and the RN top is $2199 how is that literally half the price ? I must be missing something.....

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  #46  
Old June 16th, 2015, 05:34 PM
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Todd Kendrick
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Sorry folks but if I treated my clients like that I would be out of business.

I don't give a damn who you are.............

NO EXCUSES FOR TIME DELAYS AND QC PROBLEMS
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  #47  
Old June 16th, 2015, 05:36 PM
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Christopher Laws
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The Badger top is $2595.00 and Matos was quoted for a Badger II GK/ powder coated, door seals , etc. I think his quote was around $4600.00. He opted for a Rovers North top instead.

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2015 05:40 PM ------

Everybody has an opinion and sometimes it should be kept to themselves. Just sayin'.

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2015 05:42 PM ------

Everybody has an opinion and sometimes it should be kept to themselves. Just sayin'.
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  #48  
Old June 16th, 2015, 06:01 PM
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Chris you know I genuinely love your products and use them all regularly. Hell, I was even asked if I'd sell some of my stuff from you today, and I said no thanks.

That said, when I ordered stuff from you I got it fairly quickly and everything was always of the quality I've come to expect from Badger, but I'm sure you can see where the frustration comes from some of your customers. We all turn into little kids when we spend a big chunk of our paycheck on a new toy, and a Badger top is no exception - imagine being a little kid leading up to Christmas, but when Christmas day arrived your parents told you it was going to be delayed until March, then when March came they said July. It'd suck...a lot. We all genuinely want you to succeed and that's why you see so many of us saying that it's worth the wait, but many do not realize the wait is worth it until the wait is over. I'm not sure how frequently a customer is told a top will be ready to ship by a certain date and that date isn't met, but I'm sure that it's something you track...as I otherwise do not see any other complaints about your company. If you're setting attainable expectations to your customers 95% of the time and we're only seeing these 5%ers coming here and complaining, then I don't think there's anything for you to change or worry about, but if it's more than that then it may be worth it to figure out how you might be able to set more realistic expectations.
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  #49  
Old June 16th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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barry f
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I am willing to bet Chris 100% believes he will meet every date he gives a customer. I think the expectation should be whatever he quotes you need to double. It's not so bad for people on the board as they know with threads like this. As for other customers I guess it can suck but a quick google search will bring up threads like this.

With that said whats the secondary market on badger tops? I don't use mine. I am willing to sell it today. It will only cost you the top you ordered and are waiting for.
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  #50  
Old June 16th, 2015, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bjf View Post
I think the expectation should be whatever he quotes you need to double.
That is a seriously flawed business model.

I have tried to bite my tongue this entire thread, but there have been other vendors crucified on here for not meeting timeline expectations.

It's really not that f'ing hard to figure out how much product you can produce in a given time unless of course you opened your doors last week.........otherwise you're making excuses. If I told my owners sorry, I'll need another 6 months to finish your project because I'm just busy.........but, don't worry the quality is good, I'd be out of business in short order.
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  #51  
Old June 16th, 2015, 07:54 PM
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Stephen LeBlanc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
It's really not that f'ing hard to figure out how much product you can produce in a given time unless of course you opened your doors last week.........otherwise you're making excuses. If I told my owners sorry, I'll need another 6 months to finish your project because I'm just busy.........but, don't worry the quality is good, I'd be out of business in short order.

Nailed it.
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  #52  
Old June 16th, 2015, 07:57 PM
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My two cents for those few who care, Chris makes the best tops on the planet. If you can get to him, he will go out of his way to provide you with anything he can to help you out. If your expectations are for responsive customer service and great communication, then you'd best go somewhere else. But for Christ's sake, if you own a Land Rover Defender, you are a rare breed and should appreciate and abide a true craftsman.
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  #53  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:02 PM
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Stephen LeBlanc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryBaxter View Post
My two cents for those few who care, Chris makes the best tops on the planet. If you can get to him, he will go out of his way to provide you with anything he can to help you out. If your expectations are for responsive customer service and great communication, then you'd best go somewhere else. But for Christ's sake, if you own a Land Rover Defender, you are a rare breed and should appreciate and abide a true craftsman.

All of that would be great if the customer was told that at time of order. Simple managing of client expectations.

Example: "hey thanks for the business! You're really going to love the product. Since I hand craft everyone of them personally I'm not sure if turnaround time will be 3 months or 10, so bare with me. I'm also horrible at email and phone as usually sewing. So be assured that if you haven't heard from me, I haven't forgotten about you. Tons of people can vouch for that."

Simple setting of expectations. Common business sense.

PS. I'm a business advisor in real life. For real. I deal with this shit daily. Artists don't make good business people. They are forced into that part.
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  #54  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
If I told my owners sorry, I'll need another 6 months to finish your project because I'm just busy.........but, don't worry the quality is good, I'd be out of business in short order.
Obviously you operate under a different business model than the badger. He hasn't gone out of business, and probably has enough orders to keep busy for a long while. If you are a member of this forum and expect Amazon prime-like turnaround from Chris then you are the one who is in the wrong... Not him.

Once I am unable to find or fix another tickford I'll sign up for the waiting list with Badger- and not bitch about the wait.
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  #55  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:09 PM
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Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
That is a seriously flawed business model.

I have tried to bite my tongue this entire thread, but there have been other vendors crucified on here for not meeting timeline expectations.
Vendors here are usually crucified for poor product and shady dealings - that's a lot different than what I see with Badger. And I highly doubt they'll shut down - the product is great, not just good.

Companies that have sky-high interest learn to adapt to demand or eventually say "it's going to be a long time.." If you don't want to wait, then don't buy. If you don't like the adjusted timeline, then call up Chris and say you want your scratch back.
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  #56  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:12 PM
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Stephen LeBlanc
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Problem with Badger Coachworks

This can all be established upfront. That's where Badger is missing the opportunity to establish expectations. Expectations of time and communication/accessibility. Simple business 101.

Regardless if Badger had enough orders to get him to retirement. Establishing expectations makes for a better all around experience for both sides.
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  #57  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:15 PM
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With all due respect, Business 101 is supply and demand.
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  #58  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:16 PM
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Stephen LeBlanc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryBaxter View Post
With all due respect, Business 101 is supply and demand

No doubt. But a simple paragraph at the preorder would make for a much better experience. Simple 101.
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  #59  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:16 PM
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Jay Geaney
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My favorite part of this whole discussion are that people are giving business critiques and advice to someone who has been in service to the Land Rover community longer than most people on this board have owned their Land Rovers, and has neither ripped anyone off, nor delivered a sub-par product. Discuss...
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  #60  
Old June 16th, 2015, 08:18 PM
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barry f
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Again in Chris's mind he thinks he is giving you an accurate date. Here is my take away from this thread. We as a community do not crucify Chris in the same way we have other vendors and this is what I believe to be the reasoning.
1. In the end you get a quality product. Other vendors who never can meet dates can't even say that. How many discussions are there about trucks built like shit or engines that don't run.
2. Chris will never steal from anyone. If the wait is too great he will refund the money.

To me those are good traits. I think people just get frustrated not knowing this going in.

There might as well be a sticky.

Oh and if you still run a tickford please don't ruin your truck and add a belt rail top.
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