Paris attack...

[Rocky]

Its only a matter of time before they come back to the USA.

[javelinadave]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Its only a matter of time before they come back to the USA.

What makes you think that they are not here now?

[Overlander]

Originally Posted by Ignotus

Just happened; France Launches Airstrikes Against Islamic State Stronghold in Syria - WSJ

So ask yourself why we have targets to give France, that we haven't already bombed the F' out of ourselves? WTF?

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by javelinadave

What makes you think that they are not here now?

They're here and will strike here. Its a given.

[Overlander]

Originally Posted by Rocky

They're here and will strike here. Its a given.

Agreed. Just like the certainty that at some point in the future, there will be a terrorist attack involving a nuclear weapon. Maybe years from now, but it's going to happen.

[cbfritz_03]

It's really hard to sweat the small stuff and not check ego at the door when things will be getting difficult for so many very soon. Once my kid hears about this I know he's going to want to talk about it. He's been a military history nerd since age 3 and always wants to discuss things like this. He's been enamoured with Europe and France over this past year... dressed as Napoleon for Halloween for goodness sakes. I may need to have one of my veteran buddies talk to him about this one...guy talk, so to speak... 'One Boy, Livid'..

[Viton]

Do not forget that Japan bombed the US NAVY in Hawaii which began the US war against Japan.

We should have done this right after 9/11 in Afghanistan, the world would have understood & the Radical Muslims would have returned to their tents.

[rankar]

Those targets are for show.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by Overlander

Since Putin is the only one right now with a strategy for ISIL, it's time to soak in some "PUTIN PORN" That's right. Soak it up you dirty little infidels. ISIS got a free week of stay at a resort in Cabo San Lucas on their trip Norte, so let this pic distract you all for just a little longer.

Putin does not have an anti-ISIS strategy, he's got a pro-Putin strategy. It's amazing how many fans someone can get from stealing a large chunk of another country, propping up brutal regimes, nuclear saber rattling and other kinds of bad behavior.

The Putin fans need to move to Russia, see what you think of it after a year. Even Snowden isn't really digging it any more.

[Viton]

Originally Posted by JimC

Putin does not have an anti-ISIS strategy, he's got a pro-Putin strategy. It's amazing how many fans someone can get from stealing a large chunk of another country, propping up brutal regimes, nuclear saber rattling and other kinds of bad behavior.

The Putin fans need to move to Russia, see what you think of it after a year. Even Snowden isn't really digging it any more.

With the internet providing an open forum to look into other countries affairs through the eyes of it's citizens, IF the Crimea was forcefully taken (the citizens actually voted for annexation to Russia) would not the rest of the world be aware of it's oppression?

PS. Assad was thrust into the job as leader when his elder brother & heir to the throne was killed in an accident. He has never been a popular leader & the citizen of Syria are the one's trying to unseat him.

[LuisC]

It's pretty darn bad when it looks like the safest place on earth to visit is North Korea. No terrorist attacks there. Just a lunatic dictator.

[badvibes]

Originally Posted by RBBailey

I maintain that there are no politics involved. This is the end-game of ISIS. Chaos, destruction, death, terror. That is their goal, not a means to their goal.

I would say that politics is involved. The jihadists are carrying out their actions based upon what they claim is founded in their faith. But they understand what war has evolved into. It's no longer about strategic targets. They don't try to take out our ability to make weapons or our ability to mobilize and transport men and materials or our fuel production capability.


They attack the will and resolve of the people. If they can create enough terror and fear and chaos and dissent among the populace, the people will act politically to place appeasers in power. Politicians who will try to solve the problem thru concession. Their success comes in the people they target silencing and removing those who would oppose them from power/authority.


The people need to understand this. The war isn't on some faraway battlefield you see on the nightly news. The battle field is the buildings of your cities, your stadiums, your restaurants, your concert halls. The target is the people themselves, physically, emotionally, ideologically.


Just my simple man view.

[Ray_G]

It's worth noting that from their perspective there is no distinction between religion and politics; the notion of secular distinction is ours.

I'd also point out they don't want to create conditions of appeasement/political accomodation ala historical terror group objectives, they actually want apocalyptic violence to come their way as their interpretation of faith makes them believe that they will win such a conflict.

[JimC]

Originally Posted by Viton

With the internet providing an open forum to look into other countries affairs through the eyes of it's citizens, IF the Crimea was forcefully taken (the citizens actually voted for annexation to Russia) would not the rest of the world be aware of it's oppression?

To think that the same rules apply in Russia (or occupied Crimea) as they do here is a terrible misinterpretation. This applies to freedom of speech, election integrity, property rights, etc. You are aware that RT is even less fair and balanced than Fox News right?

While I'm not going to be easily convinced that the US should run around imposing regime changes willy nilly, you will never find me making apologies for dictators, autocrats, and criminal syndicates masquerading as governments. The fact that people even engage in this man-crush form of idolization of the abuse of power is beyond me.

[badvibes]

Originally Posted by Ray_G

It's worth noting that from their perspective there is no distinction between religion and politics; the notion of secular distinction is ours.

I'd also point out they don't want to create conditions of appeasement/political accomodation ala historical terror group objectives, they actually want apocalyptic violence to come their way as their interpretation of faith makes them believe that they will win such a conflict.

Agree 100% that there is no distinction between their religious beliefs and politics. Their religion says death to the infidel. The approach of their leadership in dealing with foreigners/non-believers, death to the infidel.


As to appeasement/political accommodation, if they can leverage those they attack into a false sense of things being better if some accommodation is sought after, it just furthers their agenda and makes their goals more attainable. It's easier/faster to further their agenda if we're concillatory than if we aggressively oppose and actually fight back. Doesn't change their end game just helps them further their agenda.

[Ray_G]

Originally Posted by badvibes

Agree 100% that there is no distinction between their religious beliefs and politics. Their religion says death to the infidel. The approach of their leadership in dealing with foreigners/non-believers, death to the infidel. As to appeasement/political accommodation, if they can leverage those they attack into a false sense of things being better if some accommodation is sought after, it just furthers their agenda and makes their goals more attainable. It's easier/faster to further their agenda if we're concillatory than if we aggressively oppose and actually fight back. Doesn't change their end game just helps them further their agenda.

Having spent time talking with these folks, I'll reiterate my point-they aren't looking for accommodation from the west. They don't care if we are aggressive or not, their faith will see them through.

[Overlander]

Originally Posted by JimC

Putin does not have an anti-ISIS strategy, he's got a pro-Putin strategy. It's amazing how many fans someone can get from stealing a large chunk of another country, propping up brutal regimes, nuclear saber rattling and other kinds of bad behavior.

The Putin fans need to move to Russia, see what you think of it after a year. Even Snowden isn't really digging it any more.

I dont have a man crush on putin, I was joking!

[sonoronos]

Originally Posted by Ray_G

It's worth noting that from their perspective there is no distinction between religion and politics; the notion of secular distinction is ours.

I'd also point out they don't want to create conditions of appeasement/political accommodation ala historical terror group objectives, they actually want apocalyptic violence to come their way as their interpretation of faith makes them believe that they will win such a conflict.

Are you saying that ISIS is more like Aum Shinrikyo? Like, a WW3 instigation cult?

[Ray_G]

Originally Posted by sonoronos

Are you saying that ISIS is more like Aum Shinrikyo? Like, a WW3 instigation cult?

Something like that, though I still resist the temptation to compare ISIS to anything but its AQ->AQI->ISI lineage.

This is probably the best digestible piece I've seen on their motivations in some time:
What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

[sonoronos]

Originally Posted by Ray_G

Something like that, though I still resist the temptation to compare ISIS to anything but its AQ->AQI->ISI lineage.

This is probably the best digestible piece I've seen on their motivations in some time:
What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

OK, so that article is saying that ISIS is basically Muslims wanting nationhood and they have an army of radical gun-toting Muslims who are willing to kill to get there. I like how it admits that ISIS is a religious group based on Muslim theology.