Ownership Liabilities - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:35 PM
go blue
Status: Offline
AJ
none
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 3
Ownership Liabilities

Privately imported Land Rover owners need to accept the fact that the recent government action has cast a meaningful cloud over the titles of the entire stock of these vehicles. Iíve been closely following the issue for some time and I know that many will jump up and down and insist that their truck is legitimate. The fact is that Uncle Sam is cracking down on these vehicles, and what better way to do that then to destroy their value.

Itís time to recognize the liabilities of owning one of these vehicles (beyond the obvious risk of having the vehicle seized).

Safety - The biggest risk to owning one of these vehicles is a serious accident involving a fatality. These kind of accidents always involve high-level investigations, and if it is determined that the vehicle may not have been properly imported, may god have mercy on anyone in the chain of title. Additionally, you could expect your insurance company to deny coverage. A situation like this will make a vehicle seizure look like childís play.

Transferring Title - At some point people may want to (or need to) sell their vehicle, and there will be an obligation to make some sort of disclosure of the risk of seizure to a potential buyer. Again, recognizing that in the post 2012 Defender world, every one of these vehicles can be called into question. Owners need to understand the fact that there isnít a statue of limitations with respect to fraud. In plain english, these trucks will always be fair game for seizure. The real conundrum here is that any semi-intelligent buyer will want to run the truck buy the proper authorities before buying it, for sellers this may lead authorities right to your doorstep - not a very comforting idea.

I feel terrible for the folks that had their trucks seized, yet I feel even worse that they may spend a lot of time, money, and emotional energy unsuccessfully trying to get their vehicles back, instead of cutting their losses and walking away. As the news of these events is disseminated, the value of all of these trucks will plummet and they will become very illiquid.

Taking on the federal government is a big boyís game. The only thing worse then having your vehicle seized may be selling it.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:40 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Well said, owning one of these is so risky. Think of the consequences.







With that in mind, I will pay $1000 cash for any Puma truck. Drive it here and walk away smiling with no further liability and a fat knot of bills in your pocket. I will even give you a rubber band, this way you can easily keep track of all the money even if you take your hand off of it!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:42 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
What is with all the newbie trolls running wild here?
Should people disclose the danger when selling a motorcycle. scooter, bicycle, skateboard, or a 25 year old vehicle? Is a 1980's Jeep CJ or a Suzuki Samurai any safer? Your post is ridiculous at best!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:48 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Thanks for the education Captain 1-post.
What? are you a buyer looking for a fire-sale?
That ain't gonna happen kid!


If I were down to my last dollar and I needed to sell my Defender so I could eat, I'd rather light it on fire and watch it burn as opposed to sell it to a clown like you. In fact, I don't think I'd ever sell my D, so who cares what its worth anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 12:52 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,688
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
What is with all the newbie trolls running wild here?
Should people disclose the danger when selling a motorcycle. scooter, bicycle, skateboard, etc....? Ridiculous!
Shoot... If we are talking about safety... Slips, trips, and falls constitute the majority of general industry accidents.
__________________
Mine is NTO... It was new, Now I'm Taking it Off.
Quote:
Online speculation will not replace onsite inspection.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:05 PM
TeriAnn's Avatar
TeriAnn
Status: Offline
Teriann Wakeman
1960 Dormobile
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ USA
Posts: 247
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
<snip> Iíve been closely following the issue for some time and I know that many will jump up and down and insist that their truck is legitimate. The fact is that Uncle Sam is cracking down on these vehicles, and what better way to do that then to destroy their value.<snip>

Taking on the federal government is a big boyís game. The only thing worse then having your vehicle seized may be selling it.
Considering the content and tone of this posting along with this being a first posting I can't help but wonder if my tax money is paying your salary and why you are not down on the Southern border doing something to actually help the US.

Of course I'll also accept questionable Defenders for $1000. But instead of registering them it would be to scrap them for parts. I don't think it is against the law to sell a wing panel from a vehicle that was illegally imported. Recycling seems more green than just crushing a vehicle and the result is the same. The vehicle is no longer on the road in the US. I could go into the used Defender parts business.
__________________
TeriAnn
1960 Land Rover Dormobile, The go anywhere class B RV
1961 Triumph TR3A. Life is too short not to drive a classic British roadster.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:06 PM
NPT90's Avatar
NPT90
Status: Online
JT
D90 ůriginalť
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DC/MD
Posts: 2,772
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Privately imported Land Rover owners need to accept the fact that the recent government action has cast a meaningful cloud over the titles of the entire stock of these vehicles. Iíve been closely following the issue for some time and I know that many will jump up and down and insist that their truck is legitimate. The fact is that Uncle Sam is cracking down on these vehicles, and what better way to do that then to destroy their value.
By reducing the number available thus increasing their value? Pay the dollar, take the ride, the vast majority of trucks brought in ARE legitimate, not the other way around. And Uncle Sam is just correcting a past transgression with these seizures, apparently some grey market vehicles slipped past CBP in the past. This 'crackdown' targets a particular importer and port of entry where this oversight took place

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Itís time to recognize the liabilities of owning one of these vehicles (beyond the obvious risk of having the vehicle seized).
Like riding around with a smile on your face?

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Safety - The biggest risk to owning one of these vehicles is a serious accident involving a fatality. These kind of accidents always involve high-level investigations, and if it is determined that the vehicle may not have been properly imported, may god have mercy on anyone in the chain of title. Additionally, you could expect your insurance company to deny coverage. A situation like this will make a vehicle seizure look like childís play.
Coming from your personal experience driving a Model A ford? The biggest risk to breathing is not breathing, and there are many modes of transportation that are unsafe (just think every motorcycle, ever, where accident related fatalities must top almost all other forms of transportation). Also you can't prosecute previous owners of vehicles that have transferred ownership legally and without withholding information. It's not like all 4 brake lines were cut before the new owner drove it home.

Insurance companies are a numbers game, vehicles like this that are driven less than 15K miles per year fall into a different catagory. Go talk to your actuary friends and they will allude to you the fact that insurance companies aren't risk averse, in fact they don't care about one vehicle over another, they calculate premiums based on available data. And I am sure that classic car owners fall into some of the safest driving groups compiled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Transferring Title - At some point people may want to (or need to) sell their vehicle, and there will be an obligation to make some sort of disclosure of the risk of seizure to a potential buyer. Again, recognizing that in the post 2012 Defender world, every one of these vehicles can be called into question. Owners need to understand the fact that there isnít a statue of limitations with respect to fraud. In plain english, these trucks will always be fair game for seizure. The real conundrum here is that any semi-intelligent buyer will want to run the truck buy the proper authorities before buying it, for sellers this may lead authorities right to your doorstep - not a very comforting idea.
As the law is written today, there is no evidence that vehicles updated stateside after their legal entry are subject to search and seizure. the recent crackdown was imposed due to an ongoing investigation that saw widespread abuse form a particular importer. CBP or anyone else isn't going to check out every change of ownership for the 1000s of ROW defenders stateside. It's sort of an absurd sentiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
I feel terrible for the folks that had their trucks seized, yet I feel even worse that they may spend a lot of time, money, and emotional energy unsuccessfully trying to get their vehicles back, instead of cutting their losses and walking away. As the news of these events is disseminated, the value of all of these trucks will plummet and they will become very illiquid.
Do you? Do you feel terrible? It seems in your mis-informed ramblings that you haven't seen the numerous posts by individuals on this board that are far more informed than yourself. I would presume that many people who have compliant vehicles that were imported legally will reclaim their property, not at an astronomical expense but any expense for many American's can be debilitating.

Concerning value for ROW trucks; supply and demand favors the forbidden fruit, hence the numerous companies offering ROW defenders stateside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Taking on the federal government is a big boyís game. The only thing worse then having your vehicle seized may be selling it.
Again, these trucks are still being imported every day, the law hasn't changed, myself and many others that have gone through the process of importation can attest to the painstaking hours that go into ensuring you follow the import law TO THE LETTER. The individual responsible for these seizures cut corners and found that he was allowed to get away with it for some time

Please don't say you're from New England because you're embarrassing me...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:09 PM
Z.G's Avatar
Z.G
Status: Online
Zack
300Tdi 95 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Thank God we have these people coming on here and informing us with their all-knowing wisdom! Where would we be!?!?!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:12 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH
Status: Offline
Brett Fritzler
94, 95, 96 D1's
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 1,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Privately imported Land Rover owners need to accept the fact that the recent government action has cast a meaningful cloud over the titles of the entire stock of these vehicles. Iíve been closely following the issue for some time and I know that many will jump up and down and insist that their truck is legitimate. The fact is that Uncle Sam is cracking down on these vehicles, and what better way to do that then to destroy their value.

Itís time to recognize the liabilities of owning one of these vehicles (beyond the obvious risk of having the vehicle seized).

Safety - The biggest risk to owning one of these vehicles is a serious accident involving a fatality. These kind of accidents always involve high-level investigations, and if it is determined that the vehicle may not have been properly imported, may god have mercy on anyone in the chain of title. Additionally, you could expect your insurance company to deny coverage. A situation like this will make a vehicle seizure look like childís play.

Transferring Title - At some point people may want to (or need to) sell their vehicle, and there will be an obligation to make some sort of disclosure of the risk of seizure to a potential buyer. Again, recognizing that in the post 2012 Defender world, every one of these vehicles can be called into question. Owners need to understand the fact that there isnít a statue of limitations with respect to fraud. In plain english, these trucks will always be fair game for seizure. The real conundrum here is that any semi-intelligent buyer will want to run the truck buy the proper authorities before buying it, for sellers this may lead authorities right to your doorstep - not a very comforting idea.

I feel terrible for the folks that had their trucks seized, yet I feel even worse that they may spend a lot of time, money, and emotional energy unsuccessfully trying to get their vehicles back, instead of cutting their losses and walking away. As the news of these events is disseminated, the value of all of these trucks will plummet and they will become very illiquid.

Taking on the federal government is a big boyís game. The only thing worse then having your vehicle seized may be selling it.
Don't you have a truck to seize?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:16 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
Thank God we have these people coming on here and informing us with their all-knowing wisdom! Where would we be!?!?!
Hopefully go blue will post up his pic in his CBP uniform.
Best troll pic as of today is still this guy:
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,688
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Hopefully go blue will post up his pic in his CBP uniform.
Best troll pic as of today is still this guy:
Who's this guy... I missed the boat
__________________
Mine is NTO... It was new, Now I'm Taking it Off.
Quote:
Online speculation will not replace onsite inspection.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,271
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Please don't say you're from New England because you're embarrassing me...
haha - must be from CT. Certainly not from NH.

go blue - so what about other vehicles coming into the US? Are Land Rover 90/110's the black sheep? This was just posted on BaT today: http://bringatrailer.com/2014/07/22/...t-205-gti-1-6/ Will the future owner have the same liability issues?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:18 PM
Z.G's Avatar
Z.G
Status: Online
Zack
300Tdi 95 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 4,669
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Hopefully go blue will post up his pic in his CBP uniform.
Best troll pic as of today is still this guy:
I still can't understand the uncanny resemblance between him and Rico Suave.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:18 PM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
Well said, Special Agent (S/A) with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) Christopher M. Feldman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go blue View Post
Privately imported Land Rover owners need to accept the fact that the recent government action has cast a meaningful cloud over the titles of the entire stock of these vehicles. I’ve been closely following the issue for some time and I know that many will jump up and down and insist that their truck is legitimate. The fact is that Uncle Sam is cracking down on these vehicles, and what better way to do that then to destroy their value.

It’s time to recognize the liabilities of owning one of these vehicles (beyond the obvious risk of having the vehicle seized).

Safety - The biggest risk to owning one of these vehicles is a serious accident involving a fatality. These kind of accidents always involve high-level investigations, and if it is determined that the vehicle may not have been properly imported, may god have mercy on anyone in the chain of title. Additionally, you could expect your insurance company to deny coverage. A situation like this will make a vehicle seizure look like child’s play.

Transferring Title - At some point people may want to (or need to) sell their vehicle, and there will be an obligation to make some sort of disclosure of the risk of seizure to a potential buyer. Again, recognizing that in the post 2012 Defender world, every one of these vehicles can be called into question. Owners need to understand the fact that there isn’t a statue of limitations with respect to fraud. In plain english, these trucks will always be fair game for seizure. The real conundrum here is that any semi-intelligent buyer will want to run the truck buy the proper authorities before buying it, for sellers this may lead authorities right to your doorstep - not a very comforting idea.

I feel terrible for the folks that had their trucks seized, yet I feel even worse that they may spend a lot of time, money, and emotional energy unsuccessfully trying to get their vehicles back, instead of cutting their losses and walking away. As the news of these events is disseminated, the value of all of these trucks will plummet and they will become very illiquid.

Taking on the federal government is a big boy’s game. The only thing worse then having your vehicle seized may be selling it.
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:19 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dro View Post
Who's this guy... I missed the boat
Search "landie" in the Homeland Security took my 110 thread and enjoy the reading.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:27 PM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
I can't speak for anyone else, but I rather appreciate the "outlaw" status that everyone will now associate with ROW Defender ownership. It's sorta like being a Hells Angel but without having to go to club meetings and get in fights all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:28 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,688
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Search "landie" in the Homeland Security took my 110 thread and enjoy the reading.
I probably missed it. I'll go back in that cluster fuck of thread and "educamate" myself
__________________
Mine is NTO... It was new, Now I'm Taking it Off.
Quote:
Online speculation will not replace onsite inspection.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 01:49 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
I could go into the used Defender parts business.
I just want one to wheel
__________________
Note: The maximum size of your custom image is 500 by 100 pixels or 19.5 KB (whichever is smaller).
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 02:03 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,522
Registry
Piss off douche
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 23rd, 2014, 02:09 PM
cbfritz_03
Status: Offline
Carmen
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: TX
Posts: 1,520
Thanks ...I was doing the hold tongue *editeditedit* with Mr. Sunshine
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cost of defender ownership sro Defender Technical Discussions 25 January 7th, 2013 04:18 PM
NAS 110 ownership and shake down through Yosemite... IPSC_GUY Misc. Chit-Chat 20 April 1st, 2010 04:57 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 AM.


Copyright