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  #141  
Old June 15th, 2016, 03:51 AM
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One of the common links missed here with the Ft Hoods shooter, the Boston Bombers, San Bernardino shooters and the Orlando shooter was they were all radicalized by viewing Anwar al-Awlaki's preaching videos via the internet. I see the internet as the real problem here. Banning it would have stifled these guys radicalization and prevent future radicalization of others and also eliminate internet predators, child porn, cyber bullying, identity theft and a host of other crimes and atrocities. It makes sense AND it is for the children.
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  #142  
Old June 15th, 2016, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
One of the common links missed here with the Ft Hoods shooter, the Boston Bombers, San Bernardino shooters and the Orlando shooter was they were all radicalized by viewing Anwar al-Awlaki's preaching videos via the internet. I see the internet as the real problem here. Banning it would have stifled these guys radicalization and prevent future radicalization of others and also eliminate internet predators, child porn, cyber bullying, identity theft and a host of other crimes and atrocities. It makes sense AND it is for the children.
yeah but then your truck wouldn't run and you'd have to waste you time doing 'productive' things rather than mess about here.
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  #143  
Old June 15th, 2016, 06:47 AM
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While we are playing "what if" games, what if the shooter were a Southern, white, male, right wing, fundamental Baptist who listened to Jerry Falwell all the time and called 911 to profess his allegiance to the 700 Club?

Jason would you be excusing him as just a "Walter Mitty terrorist who happened to be a Muslim looking to justify his actions by invoking ISIS. Weak minded politicians will jump on the divisive nature of this attack to promote their own selfish agenda." " MY view is this was a clearly mentally deficient homophobe who probably suppressing his own homosexual tendencies."

Or would you be railing against the Right, Christianity and the 700 Club saying he is a symptom of Republican's hate for gays?
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  #144  
Old June 15th, 2016, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
While we are playing "what if" games, what if the shooter were a Southern, white, male, right wing, fundamental Baptist who listened to Jerry Falwell all the time and called 911 to profess his allegiance to the 700 Club?

Jason would you be excusing him as just a "Walter Mitty terrorist who happened to be a Muslim looking to justify his actions by invoking ISIS. Weak minded politicians will jump on the divisive nature of this attack to promote their own selfish agenda." " MY view is this was a clearly mentally deficient homophobe who probably suppressing his own homosexual tendencies."

Or would you be railing against the Right, Christianity and the 700 Club saying he is a symptom of Republican's hate for gays?
My view was my assessment of the weighting of motivation was based on, again, my view that he was a mentally deficient homophobe suppressing his own homosexual tendencies. This was very likely likely amplified by his religious leanings and the fundamentalist videos he was watching. I doubt he was a scholar and a big reader ...

In your scenario is your guy a self hating homophobe frequenting gay clubs and using gay hookup apps?

If your guy has an active Grindr profile and hates himself for it. Frequents gay clubs but is conflicted about his sexuality. Had his self anger and loathing amplified by fundamental baptists ... Then yeah I call him out for what I believe him to be.
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  #145  
Old June 15th, 2016, 01:28 PM
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Too simple. You will not eliminate the illegal guns, therefore your simple question is always false. Yes guns are correlated; however, taking the majority of law a bidding citizens guns won't stop criminals. It's against the law to murder but murder exists. Maybe we should get rid of people and solve the problem all together... wait that does not compute. Anything can be used to kill. Taking away the tool won't change the action, just the tool. Better background checks that aren't antiquated makes sense, but that's not what the Left is calling for, is it?
I'm trying to take it back to the reason we have them. The main purpose of the gun. Not saying eliminate those we have, that would be nearly impossible. I'm stating if we never had guns in the first place. We would have far less murder. I'm glad we can agree on the correlation between guns and murder now
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  #146  
Old June 15th, 2016, 01:52 PM
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What do the real gun guys have to say about this??

Apparently the shooter used a Sig Sauer MCX, which "was specifically designed for Special Forces".
From Sig; "military spec trigger", "Gas Piston, Rotating Bolt", "Faster trigger/faster load", "Can be broken down into an easily concealed pistol"

This must be a real assault rifle, not some store bought AR-15.




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  #147  
Old June 15th, 2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
What do the real gun guys have to say about this?? Apparently the shooter used a Sig Sauer MCX, which "was specifically designed for Special Forces". From Sig; "military spec trigger", "Gas Piston, Rotating Bolt", "Faster trigger/faster load", "Can be broken down into an easily concealed pistol" This must be a real assault rifle, not some store bought AR-15. .
At least it wasn't a Ruger 556 or something, right?
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  #148  
Old June 15th, 2016, 02:28 PM
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Sig MCX

It's a 5.56 or 7.62 rifle, black in color, and doesn't use gas impingement. May have had a folding stock. There are a few versions of the MCX.

Think Bushmaster, H&K416, Colt, MagPul Masada, DPMS, etc etc. It is actually a stupid overpriced gun, IMHO. A $600-800 dollar cheapie with fixed sights would have same effect.

It is a semi-auto (1 pull of trigger = 1 round fired) is the operating mode. An assault rifle by most definitions has "selective fire" meaning one round and either a 3 round burts and/or full auto. Like an MP5.

The Sig lists for $1,800. Accepts 10,20,30, or the extremely gay and jam prone 40 rd. Mags ( I have 1 40rd. magPul, they gave it to me, never even unwrapped the POS)

It is nothing special, just a slightly different version of an AR like platform, with some AK touches, with SIG proprietary kit. Parts are not directly interchangeable with other AR type rifles, just like parts from a Colt 1911 45 cal do not fit Glock 21.

SF developed is misleading. There are a lot of manufactureres who develop systems, based on RFP criteria for the military and SOF, yet are never selected.

MilSpec is a systems approval, there are no "MilSpec" triggers or parts. Sales hype.
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  #149  
Old June 15th, 2016, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
What do the real gun guys have to say about this??

Apparently the shooter used a Sig Sauer MCX, which "was specifically designed for Special Forces".
From Sig; "military spec trigger", "Gas Piston, Rotating Bolt", "Faster trigger/faster load", "Can be broken down into an easily concealed pistol"

This must be a real assault rifle, not some store bought AR-15.

.
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  #150  
Old June 15th, 2016, 02:33 PM
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This was such a tragic event. A total nightmare. But guns are not the problem. It's mentally unstable people who are the problem. If this shooter dude was comfortable with who he was, wasn't influenced by a non-accepting religion, and didn't have a homophobic father this probably wouldn't have happened. We need to fight ignorance with education. We need to revamp our education system and make college more affordable and accessible. I'm all for making college tuition free. I can't really think of a better thing to spend taxpayers dollars on than education.
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  #151  
Old June 15th, 2016, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
At least it wasn't a Ruger 556 or something, right?
Ruger= made in 'Murica.


Quite honestly, I wish this numskull had used an old wood stock mini-14 so the media would leave the EBR out of the conversation.


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  #152  
Old June 15th, 2016, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Chip View Post
This was such a tragic event. A total nightmare. But guns are not the problem. It's mentally unstable people who are the problem. If this shooter dude was comfortable with who he was, wasn't influenced by a non-accepting religion, and didn't have a homophobic father this probably wouldn't have happened. We need to fight ignorance with education. We need to revamp our education system and make college more affordable and accessible. I'm all for making college tuition free. I can't really think of a better thing to spend taxpayers dollars on than education.
Chip, a good strong post until you lost me at the free college part. Active shooters and free college tuition - the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

But why make a college degree worthless by giving it away for free?
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  #153  
Old June 15th, 2016, 03:50 PM
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This site provides great insight into the Orlando shooting. I have heard him speak a few times in person. Usually great information.

http://thegorkabriefing.com
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  #154  
Old June 15th, 2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Chip, a good strong post until you lost me at the free college part. Active shooters and free college tuition - the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But why make a college degree worthless by giving it away for free?
Nutrition , education , health. If you want to break a group of people these are the things that you deny them. If you want to build a group of people this is what you provide them. Simple tactics.

Free might be reaching, but I don't see anything wrong with a type of trade. Maybe mandatory communal service to pay off the cost of the education. Something that would benefit the community or country.

Until we change our food, become more educated, and become a healthier nation nothing will ever change.
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  #155  
Old June 15th, 2016, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Chip, a good strong post until you lost me at the free college part. Active shooters and free college tuition - the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

But why make a college degree worthless by giving it away for free?
Same can be said about the current state of our health care system.
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  #156  
Old June 15th, 2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Chip, a good strong post until you lost me at the free college part. Active shooters and free college tuition - the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

But why make a college degree worthless by giving it away for free?

Go pack your truck will ya Raub!
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  #157  
Old June 15th, 2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
I'm trying to take it back to the reason we have them. The main purpose of the gun. Not saying eliminate those we have, that would be nearly impossible. I'm stating if we never had guns in the first place. We would have far less murder. I'm glad we can agree on the correlation between guns and murder now
Our ideas of correlated are not the same. Guns will always be correlated to gun crime/death. No guns will still be the same amount of murder... Just different type of murder. No guns would mean no accidental gun deaths. Criminals will still get guns and will still kill innocents in places like chicago. Take away guns there by law and criminals will still get them.
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  #158  
Old June 15th, 2016, 05:16 PM
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Go pack your truck will ya Raub!
I would love to but I have to work this weekend in order to pay for all the free shit to be given away. Somebody's got to pull the damn wagon.
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  #159  
Old June 15th, 2016, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Chip, a good strong post until you lost me at the free college part. Active shooters and free college tuition - the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

But why make a college degree worthless by giving it away for free?
I was just trying to point out that pretty much all the problems in our society stems from ignorance, largely from religion, disliking people who are different from you (racism, homophobia, etc), and caring more about yourself than others (including the environment, other animals, plants, etc). Educating people is the most effective way to combat ignorance. It wouldn't be my goal to make a college degree worthless, but if someone is going to college to purely earn a degree because they think they'll earn more money then we have a serious problem. I cannot put a dollar value on higher education considering the enlightenment it brings. But of course that's a long term solution. I don't know what the best short term fixes are. I don't know exactly how we can prevent deranged people from going out on a mass murder spree other than trying to identify who they are and preventing them access to firearms.
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  #160  
Old June 15th, 2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by solarguy View Post
Nutrition , education , health. If you want to break a group of people these are the things that you deny them. If you want to build a group of people this is what you provide them. Simple tactics.

Free might be reaching, but I don't see anything wrong with a type of trade. Maybe mandatory communal service to pay off the cost of the education. Something that would benefit the community or country.

Until we change our food, become more educated, and become a healthier nation nothing will ever change.
So maybe free/reduced education for health care providers and a free/reduced health care system.... or is that to close to socialism.
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