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  #81  
Old June 13th, 2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defenderholty View Post
M1 garlands don't have "clips" unless you are refering to a bandolier... potato tomato er uh my bad. It's not called a bandolier either... I just ate a bug
Actually they do use a loading clip.

------ Follow up post added June 13th, 2016 07:05 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Are you telling me that those guys covered in velcro that look tactical AF aren't going to save me?

You mean the Velcro covered cops right? I have little to no faith in them saving anyone
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  #82  
Old June 13th, 2016, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
I learned the term clip from my father when he was teaching my sister and I to shoot and just continued using it. He probably learned it in the Marines when he was taught to load and fire a M1 Garand rifle during WWII (Second Marine division). While I own 2 guns, I'm not really into them enough to be an expert on them. Sorry if the term I learned as a child isn't what people use today and caused you to take umbrage.

As far as being able to fix a Rover, if it is a Series Land Rover I'm probably one of the best shade tree mechanics you will find. I've maintained my current Land Rover for the last 38 years including my share of on the trail repairs. And it is my second Land Rover. I'll admit I have not touched a wrench to any of the coilers so would never assume to give repair advice for one. But people email me daily from all around the world asking my advice on repairing or upgrading Series trucks. Learn who you are writing about before you accuse me of not knowing the mechanics of a Series truck.

As to the person who asked for data,

From the CDC:
Year / number of homicides
2010 / 11,078
2011 / 11,068
2012 / 11,622
2013 / 11,208
2014 / 10,947

So why is it that no one really cares? And that most people's response is they hope the other person misses and gives them the chance to shoot back. Then they assume they will be more accurate than the bad guy. That mostly only happens on TV.
Not trying to throw fuel on the fire here, but if just one person had a gun it could have made a difference. You never know. As far as accuracy, you train right and it all becomes muscle memory! I train almost on a daily basis, it's second nature.

Banning high capacity magazines, they are not clips. Clips don't have Springs, is like limiting the speed on cars. Most states have speed limits, so why allow cars to go over the speed limit?

Also, on the data. Why don't we take a look at drunk driving? It kills more people each year then Guns. I think 238 people per day or so. Guns are like 30... just some thoughts.

This kid was a mess, look at his dad's anti gay video he posted. The Apple didn't fall far from the tree, but we keep letting these people in?

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #83  
Old June 13th, 2016, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post


You mean the Velcro covered cops right? I have little to no faith in them saving anyone
I was referring to the tacticool crowd.
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  #84  
Old June 13th, 2016, 08:50 PM
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Everyone is tacticool now
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  #85  
Old June 13th, 2016, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
Everyone is tacticool now
Especially if you own a Glock

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #86  
Old June 13th, 2016, 08:58 PM
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I keep hearing this argument for Concealed weapons in the bar and it would have been stopped. We had a armed citizen here in Vegas try to stop a shooting and guess what. He was killed fairly quickly as he missed the 2nd shooter. I give him credit as he did try and do something. Not sure everyone recalls that shooting but several people were killed including 2 police officers.This is becoming so common that its actually hard to keep up. I really don't understand the logic of Concealed weapons in a bar. Again, I'm not anti gun but why can't we have common sense regulation. IE license like a Drivers license or limit magazine capacity and assault style guns.
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  #87  
Old June 13th, 2016, 09:02 PM
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My opinion on concealed carry is it gives you good folks an option besides just sitting there and getting shot. Now just because you have a concealed carry weapon doesn't mean that you Will use it.

In the whole notion on it doesn't matter is kind of falls. The bad guys reality changes very quickly once there is lead coming his way. He has to stop what he's doing and address that threat. Now if the guy with the CCW gets hit that just means that he bought precious seconds for other people to get out or hide or for the cops to get there. Most of these things and very very quick. And a lot of these bastards kill themselves when they meet resistance.

Now it's not ideal I get that. But it's much more preferred to the bad guy shooting innocent people uncontested.

I realize that's not scientific. That's just how I see it.
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  #88  
Old June 13th, 2016, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilder View Post
.... why can't we have common sense regulation. .....
hey, that should be a marketing slogan! Oh, wait......




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  #89  
Old June 13th, 2016, 09:23 PM
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Especially if you own a Glock My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
My guns think I have a wife.
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  #90  
Old June 13th, 2016, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Are you telling me that those guys covered in velcro that look tactical AF aren't going to save me?
We can always fall back to hope as a course of action. Which is naturally followed with the 'hope in one hand, shit in the other-tell me which fills up first'

I see velcro, morale patches, and the like and I walk the other way.
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  #91  
Old June 13th, 2016, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Are you telling me that those guys covered in velcro that look tactical AF aren't going to save me?
Actually I have defended my family twice with an evil, high capacity, 45 cal. Glock 21. (I have relayed this story here before) The first was an attempted home invasion/robbery and then an attempted carjacking. Both times my wife was immediately on the phone with 911. Both times the incident was over before the 911 operator answered the call. It happens that fast. And as Ray has said you had better be ready or you might as well have a stick of butter in your hand.

After the first incident (which I made mistakes that could have and should have cost me my life) I trained and researched and trained some more. During the second car jacking incident my pulse didn't rise - didn't have to think what to do, I already knew.

So if you choose to be a sheep that is fine and that is your choice. I choose to not be a sheep and that is my choice because I have the right to be as well armed as the criminals.
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  #92  
Old June 13th, 2016, 11:31 PM
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You can't blame the gun for death by terrorist.
You can't blame the car for 33,000 deaths per year.
You can't blame the pencil for a mis-spelled word.
I don't have the answer for the needless killings, but I do know that taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer. Terrorists can and have used other means to spread terror. I think we should start by taking the fight to them. When there is a group of people that want to kill us, we need to kill them before they kill us. We need to use our military like it was intended. Blow things up and kill them. Don't worry about collateral damage, secure our borders first and then find them. If they don't like our laws they should leave. Rant over.
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  #93  
Old June 13th, 2016, 11:40 PM
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Carrying a concealed gun gives you a false hope a security. It wouldn't have done a damn thing in this situation or in most situations like this. Hate is hate, and if someone wants to kill others they will do it no matter what their weapon of choice is. But I still don't get how we don't understand that the gun is the best and most effective way to kill people. Can we agree on that? Yes the gun technically didn't kill them because he was the shooter, and he used a gun because it was the most effective way to do it.

It's not political at all. Liberals really don't hate guns. Liberals hate the innocent killing by the gun. Why can't we make them a bit harder to get? Is that so much to ask? It's harder for me to get a driver's license than it is to get a gun. Gun owners should want to make it harder for assholes like this to get guns because it makes gun owners look bad and that should not be the case. Shit we would love the NRA if they actually stepped up to the plate and demanded guns to safer.

We have self flying drones that can fly underwater. We have machine learning, we have finger ID recognition on our phones. Why can't we implement better safety laws in obtaining a gun? It's so stupid how we can't bring tech forward thinking into our guns.
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  #94  
Old June 14th, 2016, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
Carrying a concealed gun gives you a false hope a security. It wouldn't have done a damn thing in this situation or in most situations like this. Hate is hate, and if someone wants to kill others they will do it no matter what their weapon of choice is. But I still don't get how we don't understand that the gun is the best and most effective way to kill people. Can we agree on that? Yes the gun technically didn't kill them because he was the shooter, and he used a gun because it was the most effective way to do it. It's not political at all. Liberals really don't hate guns. Liberals hate the innocent killing by the gun. Why can't we make them a bit harder to get? Is that so much to ask? It's harder for me to get a driver's license than it is to get a gun. Gun owners should want to make it harder for assholes like this to get guns because it makes gun owners look bad and that should not be the case. Shit we would love the NRA if they actually stepped up to the plate and demanded guns to safer. We have self flying drones that can fly underwater. We have machine learning, we have finger ID recognition on our phones. Why can't we implement better safety laws in obtaining a gun? It's so stupid how we can't bring tech forward thinking into our guns.
Guns are not the problem, if you want to stop needless killing then we should ban cars. More people die due to car accidents then guns. Guns are not the best way to kill a large group of people. Bombs, chemicals or driving a truck at high speed through the night club would have probably killed more. Guns or the number of bullets in a clip are not the problem.
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  #95  
Old June 14th, 2016, 01:35 AM
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Daniel you could not be more wrong in your post. Throughout the history of mankind governments that have sought to disarm their citizens were NEVER motivated for altruistic reasons. No, a government seeks to disarm the populace out of malice because they want to be the only ones with the guns. It is about control - not safety. Think 1930's Germany, Hitler declared gun control was for the "safety" of the people. That worked out really well.

A say Congress snorts a bunch of fairy dust and gets together with the president and outlaws the evil gun. Who will be these men who do the disarming? Who will YOU send to take MY guns? They will have to be well armed and well trained in the art of killing their fellow citizens that's for sure because how many owners of the 300 million plus guns in this country are going to just turn their guns in? How much bloodshed will YOU find acceptable in your pursuit of disarming law abiding citizens?

Will the Crips and Bloods say ok let's all turn our guns in? Or will government forces have to kick down inner-city doors to get those guns? How about MS-13 or biker gangs? Or should we just let the criminals keep their guns because that would be too much bloodshed and violate minority rights? Maybe only take law abiding citizens guns right?

And what of those citizens that say no, shall we criminalize them as well? Perhaps we just show them the error of their ways you know, reeducate them. Like in camps or something. I'm liking your version of America more and more sunshine and fairy farts I tell ya. And no guns or people who like guns. Well except for the police and criminals ya know.
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  #96  
Old June 14th, 2016, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Daniel you could not be more wrong in your post. Throughout the history of mankind governments that have sought to disarm their citizens were NEVER motivated for altruistic reasons. No, a government seeks to disarm the populace out of malice because they want to be the only ones with the guns. It is about control - not safety. Think 1930's Germany, Hitler declared gun control was for the "safety" of the people. That worked out really well. A say Congress snorts a bunch of fairy dust and gets together with the president and outlaws the evil gun. Who will be these men who do the disarming? Who will YOU send to take MY guns? They will have to be well armed and well trained in the art of killing their fellow citizens that's for sure because how many owners of the 300 million plus guns in this country are going to just turn their guns in? How much bloodshed will YOU find acceptable in your pursuit of disarming law abiding citizens? Will the Crips and Bloods say ok let's all turn our guns in? Or will government forces have to kick down inner-city doors to get those guns? How about MS-13 or biker gangs? Or should we just let the criminals keep their guns because that would be too much bloodshed and violate minority rights? Maybe only take law abiding citizens guns right? And what of those citizens that say no, shall we criminalize them as well? Perhaps we just show them the error of their ways you know, reeducate them. Like in camps or something. I'm liking your version of America more and more sunshine and fairy farts I tell ya. And no guns or people who like guns. Well except for the police and criminals ya know.
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Get some sleep buddy. Lol.
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  #97  
Old June 14th, 2016, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
But I still don't get how we don't understand that the gun is the best and most effective way to kill people. Can we agree on that?
Umm, sarin gas would have been much more effective and lethal, and has already been demonstrated effectively in gun controlled countries. But guns gave him the nastiest visual impact and the biggest gut reaction by the public. Probably a good choice just because the nation is so divided about them. No law would have stopped this. Because he didn't break any until he committed the act. If there was a wait period, he would have waited it out. He'd already passed multiple background checks.

Just because he committed horrendous illegal acts does not mean he had to have broken some law previously and the collective we could have caught it and prevented it. Lone wolf scenarios can never be stopped completely. You can only get lucky and catch them in time through mistakes or tips. And good people can go crazy.

We've had legal ambiguities in my state about open carry until some recent laws, and it was very frowned upon by police in my city prior. Saw my first clear open carry inside a mexican restaurant last week, which has a liquor license. It makes you think about how much faith you have in that open carrier.

It's easier to just move to austrailia or europe. Most of the rights you have here that you wouldnt get there you already give up on your smartphone apps every time you accept the terms of service anyway. I'm not giving up my rights because there are more idiots around. I'm going to try and reduce or weed out the idiots first via legal means. Not pat the idiots on the head and give up my rights to placate them.

Did his ex wife formally file charges of domestic abuse? Isn't that grounds for removal of firearms and purchasing ability in some states? The news reports i've seen say she just left and divorced from afar. Sad to pick out that example, but people will be looking for things like that.
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  #98  
Old June 14th, 2016, 05:31 AM
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Walter Mitty terrorist who happened to be a Muslim looking to justify his actions by invoking ISIS. Weak minded politicians will jump on the divisive nature of this attack to promote their own selfish agenda.

MY view is this was a clearly mentally deficient homophobe who probably suppressing his own homosexual tendencies.
Just to bump this back up ... numerous reports indicate guy was a regular at the club, had profile on at least one gay app and was known to people who frequented the club.

This wasn't hardened radical Muslim terrorist, this is a piece of shit, self-loathing, wife beating asshole who wanted his life to mean something. He was a natural born US Citizen.

Controlling immigration isn't the issue ... these people have been created here in the US.

The solution for us doesn't exist overseas, it doesn't get solved by closing borders. It gets solved by looking after our own, and as hateful as this person was, he was a citizen.

To clarify I am a US Citizen for those that think I'm just a Brit ...

Calling this a challenge of gun ownership and immigration is missing the point in my view. The foundation of the US was to escape persecution yet we have a populist movement based on persecution and alienation of minority groups within our OWN country.

Today it's Hispanics and Muslims, where will it go next?
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  #99  
Old June 14th, 2016, 05:52 AM
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The witnesses that say he frequented the club ~2 times a month for the past 3 years really do throw a curve that this. Either he was the most dedicated casing agent in history or this is as much about mental issues as the oft shouted 'Radical Islam'

Moreover I read where he told co-workers (who ultimately were one of the reasons why he was investigated by the FBI) that he was both affiliated with Al-Qaida...and Hizbollah (allegedly he did this just to F with his co workers).

That doesn't mean at the point and place of attack he didn't get his Jihad on at least for the press coverage to follow of course but it also illustrates that labeling things doesn't address the nuance of what happened and may just be a gross simplification-which is what some people crave i think.

It is good to see that the initial reports about the police shooting innocents don't seen to bear out, i.e. most of the friendly shooting was post breach and the backdrop was concrete.
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  #100  
Old June 14th, 2016, 07:01 AM
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Interesting if accurate. Orlando shooter Omar Mateen's ex-wife says he had 'gay tendencies' as Pulse patron decribes attacker as 'a regular' | Americas | News | The Independent
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